State Flunkies At "Work"

Lily I understand your disgust with the animal being put down, but if someone HAD been harmed yesterday then Wildlife Officials would have been under fire for not having put the animal down before as it was an already known pest, or if they'd relocated it and then something happened.  Either way they can't really win, but if there is to be an ere, let it be on the side of human life. 

It's too bad there was no room at a zoo or wildlife preserve, I wonder how much they tried.

I know I could not face someone who lost a loved one from an animal attack and justify that the animal was just being an animal.....especially one in a residential area.

I personally know one of our Fish & Game Officers, in fact he lives a stones throw from where this took place and I know he has great regard for animal life but would not think twice about the choice between a human life and that of an animal. 

It may have been a premature decision, like I said, how hard did they try for another alternative?

Today makes Tommorow

Marsha, Sorry, we are worlds apart on this one. Extrapolating your logic to "err on the side of human life" dictates that we should just as well get started in destroying every single carnivorous species on the planet just in case a bear, panther, shark or Yeti happen to make a McSnack out of a human being. (Never mind that human beings invaded their territory for the express purpose of ruining the environment in erecting yet one more needless fast food eatery so some fat kid can get to a burger even faster than he can now.) Now, I am NOT advocating wild animals eat people. But terrible things happen in life. Some things just happen. To quote: "You might as well try and catch the wind". 

To jimmaxie: "HUH"?

Lily's Lore

The news called him Green Cove George last night.

He was suppose to be the same one that ran thru GCS a few years ago.

I have a cast of his paw print from him trotting across my mom's front yard. He was as scared as she was.  

I could never put into words how the killing of this bear makes me feel so I just kept it short hence the emoticon...

Today makes Tommorow

If you were a bear what would you choose?

It's sad, but, F.F. & W. made the right choice. The bear would have come back. I am very familiar with Florida’s wild life.  The bear was taken away twice and returned both times.          

   The black bare population continues to grow in Florida while the human population continues to encroach on there habitat. Wild life will take the least path of resistance to survive and that includes food. The worst thing that we can do is feed the wild life. Either by being hand fed, or making garbage easily assessable.        

It wouldn’t have been long and some unsuspecting person would have walked around the corner to empty there trash and startled the bear. The bear had lost all fear of humans and very likely would have attacked. Bears are territorial and it is obvious he choose the surroundings area as his territory. To take him away again would have been futile.       

In 1986 there were 11 black bear complaints to the F.F. & W. in Florida. In 2006 there were 1,100 complaints. Wise conservation dictates that some time you have to kill some animals for the betterment of all.

You have your nuisance animals that are a danger to humans. Then there are the environmental circumstances that will dictate the destruction of the animals. It may sound cruel to some, but to save some you may have to kill some others. An example would be a severe drought. With lack of water and proper food the animals all become unhealthy. If you kill some off, preferably the males, old, and sick. The other animals will make it through the ruff times and they will replenish there stock with healthy offspring.

Lilyslore what I have written may seem to you as I don’t have a heart, but I assure you I love all animals and I hate to see any of them suffer.          

The reasons that I have explained above is why hunting is so important for are animals, and are environment. It wasn’t to long ago that Gators were not hunted, and for good reason. Look at the population of them now. The population became so large that the state to control there numbers opened a season to hunt Gators. Wise conservation helps all animals; to destroy some will save many. The safety of humans must come first. It’s very unfortunate, but the bear had to be destroyed. And that’s sad; he was just looking for food the easiest way he knew how. That is a good example of why it is so important not to feed the animals. Look at yogi, even he went for the picnic basket.              

I hardly think my blog went anywhere near the extreme you responded with Lily.  Because I can see both sides of the issue is a far cry from your implying that  what I said equated to the desire to just kill all the wildlife off?  That is the type of reaction I would expect from my 8yr old grandson.  Wherever you live was once uninhabitated by any human as well, what about that natural habitat that your home destroyed?  The westside of Jacksonville is far from being a newly developed area, and this bear was not near commercial enterprises but a residential area with children.  Even "fat kids" deserve to not get jumped by a bear in their own backyard. 

There are animal rights activists that would tell you if that bear could not live free he was better off dead.  No matter what these Wildlife Officers did someone was bound to get their knickers in a knot over it.

"Somethings just happen"  and this was one of them, the bear had lost his fear of humans and proved more then once that he was going to go where the food was.  If your "somethings just happen" means that someone being mauled by that bear in that neighborhood that has been there for well over 50yrs is acceptable to you then I am glad we disagree. 

You know as well as I do that what I said WAS right, had they done nothing but relocate the animal and then it ended up coming back and attacking a human then the public would want their heads on a chopping block. 

I said it was a tough call, and a no win situation and I stand by it. 

The bear had to go.  Once a wild animal becomes use to humans, they pose a clear and present danger to the community.  If a 350lbs bear wonders into my neighborhood, no need to call the state, I will handle the situation with my shotgun.  I will not risk my children's life or any of my neighbor's well being in the name of conservation.  Could the bear have relocated?  Probably, but not worth the cost or effort.  PS.  I love animals. 

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

I am theorizing that "love" is determined by how they are prepared and which bottle of wine best compliments  the dish. With those crocodile tears there is a future for you with the alleged Wildlife Conservation Junta.

Lily's Lore

I wonder if I could purchase the carcass and have a bear rug made?  That would look great if front of my fireplace... :)

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

I don't see why not. There is no degradation the state humanoids won't stoop to. ;>)

Lily's lore

Liberal? You call me a liberal? I've been a life long conservative which I believe I have mentioned in previous posts.

First, this thread is about cold hearted and lazy state workers who would rather not do their jobs in protecting wildlife.

Second, Mr. Thames has clearly stated that personal attacks on one's character will not be tolerated. There is nothing more offensive to me than to be called a liberal.

Third, yes, I prefer most wildlife to most people, not because I am a liberal (which for purposes of clarity I will iterate again that I am not) but becasue there is nothing so disappointing as people in general. Note, I said "in general" in case little Miss Conception misreads my post again. Her reading comprehension is woefully shameful for someone with the capacity to own a computer.

Finally, since the thread has now gone completely off course with dragging abortion into it, (a completely ludicrous attempt at segue) I am signing off and await a more sensible future thread.

Lily's Lore

Emotions are running high on this one, but the bear had to die. As I said in my earlier response, the bear had been relocated twice to no avail. This bear had been taken twice too the Ocala National forest and both times returned. Ocala is quite a ways.  Bears have been known to travel almost two hundred miles to get back to there territory. If this bear had not been destroyed someone would have been hurt or killed. FFW made the right choice. Conservation also means protecting the citizens. Sorry Lily it had to be done.  

hhhmmmmm.....

Now now children.  Let's work & play well together.  I'm not going to chime in with my opinion on the bear situation. There have been good & bad points to fill up enough space.  But one thing has apparently been overlooked.

This is not a new situation.  It's happened before & has been debated before by people with more experience than we have.  Two things should be noted.  In spite of all the debates & well founded opinions, we still have at least two opposing sides of which, only one will be satisfied because, # 2, I don't think any side will come up with the ultimate solution that will satisfy everyone. 

All things considered, maybe we should take a hint from some of the professionals, put the rhetoric aside & listen to the more rational, less acrimonious exchanges of ideas. Thus, we might learn more @ this particular situation & in the process, we will work & play well together.  That way, nobody gets a TIME OUT, called against them.  Just another tip from your uncle Rich.

RichK 

When there is no longer grass or trees just cookie cutter homes the wetlands are filled up with  tons of clay from Georgia or God only knows where,  the river is sline pit and the delevopers has gone to greener pasture's what will we have? NO MORE BEARS

We will not have to worry about bears,eagles or even the racoons,or even the pesky trees which are always in way.Tree you know slow down progress.

Who is at fault? It can be passed around...but mostly it will hang on pass leader ship who change the zoing laws to allow home to be builted a dozen to an acrea.

It can be the fault of citizens who laughed at tree huggers, whacky enviro nuts,greenhouse idiots and flaming liberals.

I love Clay county but when  driving around the county zoing could have been done better...It is not to late if this new crop of elected  officials will  step up to the plate and JUST SAY NO!

Tell them if you want to come here you protect our way of life.Protect our wetlands.Do not clear cut and leave dead trees and them pat your self on the back and  say "We saved the trees"{CHECK OUT THE NEW DEVELOPEMENT ON 220 AND COLLAGE DR].

If that bear started a dialog among all of us around the county maybe  he did  not die  in vain  A dialog  of what we each of us could do to keep this county clean,healthy and beautifuL..WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY NOT VERY WELL IS THAT IT WAS NOT THE BEARS FAULT WE TOOK AWAY HIS HOME.

WHERE IS THE SPELL CHECK AND THE CHECK GRAMMER KEY??? HELP

Uncle Rich how do you know how much experience I have with wild life? As I have said before the bear would have come back for easy food. The bear choose the surrounding area. It’s so much easier for a bear to find food in a garbage can than in the wild. This situation is the reasons the professionals say don't feed the wild animals. It doesn't matter how much that fraise is stated people still feed them, and when they do that’s the first step in having to destroy them.  

Freespeech,

No, I don't know how much experience you have and I was not trying to disparage you or anyone else.  Personally, I have next to no experience with this kind of situation. What I said was that the problem has been going back & forth for quite some time.  The people who have had the discussions range from ordinary John Q.  Public types like me up to & including people with advanced degrees and many years of experience in various fields.

It seems that if there were an equitable & logical solution to have human habitation without the threat of wild animals while allowing the bears, or any other wild animals to live free, without the threat of human intervention, we would have seen it by now.  But, as anyone can see, it doesn't appear that we are that close yet.  If you didn't notice, I pointed no fingers at anyone and did not state my opinion. I was merely pointing out what I considered was painfully obvious. 

RichK

Original intent of everything I have said regarding the bear has been to say that there is no truly "right" resolution here.  That is why I said it was a "tough call and a no win situation"

Facts in evidence in this singular situation is that a "known" bear was once again in a residential area.

The bear had hurt no one up to that point.

The bear was put down for fear that he would.

Anything else I think is a matter of opinion depending on your position on rights of humans versus animal rights.  Documented history of what carnivorous animals who are hungry, hurt, or have lost fear of humans can be debated based upon your beliefs.  What development has done to nature/animals good and bad can be debated also.

If you are an animal rights person and that is your only priority the only right solution is to stop killing the animals......period. 

If you are someone who believes that the human race has dominion over all animals then they will be removed or destroyed at will, no questions asked.

Its a tough day when you take the middle of the road, seeing both sides and people want to tell you that you are wrong. 

 I try to accept what I cannot change, and I try to change what I can.  I neither accept that killing the bear was the only absolute decision that could have been made, nor do I accept that I should have to give way to wildlife in every single instance where one might threaten life and/or property.

I do believe that extremes in either direction isn't the answer, thus my shared pain.