BCC Meeting & My Perceptions

You got that right about Mr. Bush. He certainly was taking advantage of his position of power yesterday. The bikers were confused as to what was going on and he treated them like they were less than second class citizens. For a moment I thought he was going to tell the CCSO people to escort them out. He even went so far as to try to make them agree to wear helmets if they got permission to do this ride at all. I can't imagine why after 23 years someone had an objection to this ride.

I think I got there a little earlier than you did but he sure didn't talk to all those contractor business people like that. He even went so far as to let them know that he was looking forward to working for them. I'm hoping that was just a slip of the tongue and he meant with them, but I wouldn't lay any bets either way on that one.

And yes Ms Kirkman was gracious enough to accept responsibility. Sort of a no brainer as she is responsible for this mess. What she did not do, say or even indicate was who was going to be held accountable. Too many elected officials forget that they are not the same word nor do they have the same meaning.

I told you there would be a good song and dance show with this issue. The only thing I heard out of her or Mr Scruby was how far they have gone to divest themselves of any culpability or the requirement for them to make a suggestion or decision.

Mr Scruby even went so far as to say that even if the amendment stays on the ballot and the voters pass it, that it might just be able to be written off as a non-event because it is the wrong petition on the ballot.

His other suggestion seemed to be to let the new board deal with it. Here Mr Bush did mention that he thought that the new board shouldn't have to because they had a vested interest in the outcome. Mr Scruby didn't let him dwell on that too long before he moved him along toward why the new board should deal with it.

His final recommendation was that they do nothing for now. That certainly set well with the members. That is well within their comfort zone. They've pretty much taken that path of least resistance for what seems to be a while. If we don't acknowledge that there is a problem then there is no problem.

What do you think? Do you think they will vote for the $37K with no increases unless the voters say so, or do you think they might find a way to leave it as the CRC wanted it to be? That may well be determined by who the new Chairman is. 

Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.

Through the years, Bush has frequently displayed an "attitude" toward people at BCC meetings. Yesteday's BCC meeting was no different as citizens attempting to address commissioners during public comment time were attacked and rebuked by him. I guess we can safely say that Commisioner Bush will have an "attitude ajustment" of his own next month in that he is TERM LIMITED and will no longer be on the board.

I imagine that more than one citizen wanting to speak felt intimidated yesterday after witnessing the bully tactics displayed to speakers by Bush. Mike, had deputies been called to escort any of the speakers out of the room, it would not have been the first time for that to happen. Many of us witnessed just  that a number of years ago by then-Chairman Fitzgerald. 

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I'm sure that must have been a pleasant year. Just think if she had been an elected chair. She would have been there for 4 years with no way out but to have her recalled. At least the way it is now, we pretty much only have to put up with any chair for a year.

Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.

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After watching the BCC meeting yesterday. I think some Rules of Order should be developed for the Commissioners. If the citizens are held to a standard of not attacking the Commissioners. It seems some rules of order need to be established for Commissioners not attacking citizens who speak. Thank goodness for term limits.

Rudeness and disrespect from the BCC chairman, and other members of the Commission, toward ordinary citizens is hardly uncommon.  Neither is the nearly-brown-nosing deference toward folks like the engineers asking for county contracts.  It's been practiced for at least 24 years, because I noticed it in the very first County Commission meeting I attended.  George, however, turned it up a notch Tuesday.

It's difficult to convince citizens that the BCC has a legacy of encouraging their input by yelling at them, making snide comments they aren't allowed to respond to, or challenging their honesty with a lengthy and challenging debate over semantics that could have been pleasantly cleared up in 30 seconds.

The chairman's treatment of the two gentlemen asking for permission to hold the Toys For Tots motorcycle parade, a local tradition of more than two decades, was disgraceful and unnecessary.

It would have be easy, and much less time-consuming, to be nice while helping those two gentlemen understand the one more thing they need to do to get approval. Instead, the chairman let his personal frustration with county government's insurance requirement policy and enforcement procedures be directed at two ordinary citizens trying to continue a long tradition of helping make children happy at Christmas.

It's one thing to say ordinary citizens are encouraged to participate in their local government, but actions don't back it up.  They haven't for at least 24 years.

My three minutes are up now.  Gotta go.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

That citizen was B. Griffin, former Clay County Commissioner, embroiled in the lies of the Larry and Scott Lancaster, virtually forced out of office after he "got to close".  That's another story in itself.  It was Larry who whispered to Christy to get a hold of herself, before he walked out the door to get the deputy and escort Mr. Griffin out.  I saw the video in TPlatt's Fed. Govt. story during a lecture on Government stripping our rights.  Mr. Griffin was not outrageous during the meeting, but b/c he had something to say that the commissioners did not want to hear, he was escorted out.  Note the current panel did not include, Stewart, Conkey or Rutledge.

That is very interesting !  What did Mr. Griffin get to close to?  That is something that he was escorted out.  I would venture to guess that Mr. Griffin was not a good ole boy? 

So what did Griffin say?  What else was going on that could have led to Fitzgerald's behavior?  How about Bush driving the gavel through the dias when Fitzgerald's friends applauded her return?  Oh, that probably got too close to him.  How many times in the 20+ meetings did Fitzgerald ask someone to stop speaking or use her gavel to ask them to stop?  I bet you cannot think of another instance.  But....on a meeting by meeting basis Bush as chairman (not just this year but every year he is chairman) belittles, demeans, threatens and silences discussion.  Kind of pales in comparisson.

Watch the tape (Bush gives such great quotes)...Griffin was never escorted out.  A recess was taken and the issue diffused itself.  Kind of anti climatic.  I can imagine that Platt stopped the tape before that happened.  I think the baliff went to the podium due to Griffins beligerent attitude, but it happened years ago and I could be wrong.

I am not voting for Bradley but after reading more and more of your posts, I think I will leave the selection blank on my ballot. 

Yeah, i think your right, they went into a recess, however, Griffin was not allowed to speak anymore.  Beligerent, huh, no i think you're wrong there, i think i was wrong about the escorted out thing, but he was not outrageous in his actions.  I'd have to see the video again, but Fitz was rather outrageous in her remarks and for ole Larry to ask for the baliff, being the brother of Scotty who made up a lie about Griffin with a collaborated effort from the media, latter apologized for and sued the hell out of by Griffin.........just odd, that he wasn't allowed to continue speaking.  Honestly, if he hadn't been escorted out, which i don't think he was, do you really think he would have been allowed to continue talking? I doubt it, b/c he was saying things they didn't want to hear.  If this had been any other citizen, not a former commissioner, they may have been allowed to continue, not that it would have been listened to though.

PB, don't get your panties in a wad.  It was a lecture by TPlatt, loser to Fitz which may be a conflict of interest to you, but it was a lecture trying to prove a different meaning, Just so happended, Fitz was the Chairman.  Whats the difference in being escorted out and having your government take an all too convenient recess to shut you up? 

Christmas, escorted out or not, the citizen was not permitted to speak as he should have been, you have three minutes to talk in a building you paid for, talking to people you pay for.  I'd encourage you to watch the video and listen to the few points Griifin was allowed to share.  Angry? Sure, but why can't you tell your Government that your angry and why can't you be angry about it in front of them, PB makes it sounds like, one has to be calm and collect when approaching the people you pay to be there and rep. you, after they screw it all up.  However, Griffin was not over the top.  Sorry, i mistated, the escort.  Also, research the story about Griffin and Lancaster, you'll find besides corruption on the part of Scotty, a good reason to be a little upset along with the misfortunes of our government at that time. 

OK, you think Fitzgerald is part of some conspiracy against Griffin, got the picture.  You never answered the question, can you site any other time that Fitzgerald belittled or silenced a speaker on the board or at the podium? 

That is certainly your prerogative. The important thing is that you are going to vote.

Might I ask if there was a particular post that made you decide that I would not get your vote?

You can reach me at the email here on MCS if you would like, or use my email of heemermj@comcast.net. Perhaps I can answer your doubts about my abilities.

If you decide to contact me by email, I make you this promise. I will not reveal your name to anyone. You may not like my stance on some issues but I am a man of honor and will not break that promise.  

Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.

PBinCC,

 I totally agree with your observations about Chairman Bush, I have only been to ONE meeting (have watched countless ones on the public access channel) and could not believe how Bush talks to those citizens that actually take time out of their day, away from their jobs, (meetings should be at 7 p.m. to make them better accessible to the working man or woman) and their families.

 Who does he think he is, to treat those of us that he is SUPPOSED to be responsible to, to act the way he does? I have observed just the opposite from him when he is addressing those individuals that want to earn the counties business. (seems a little backwards to me)

I just hope that those newly elected board members and new chair understand who put them in office and who they work for.

please go to....my bank and deposit your money in my account...(-:

County Commission meetings have at times been held at 7 p.m.  Unfortunately, there was no appreciable difference in the number of regular citizens who attended meetings.  Unless there was a specific issue to draw a crowd, night-time audiences were much the same as today's afternoon audiences, a half-dozen or so regular citizens and the rest are county staff, news people, cops and representatives of whichever private entities may have pending business with the county.

I am a strong proponent of night-time BCC meetings because it affords more citizens the opportunity to witness or participate in their government as it conducts business.  But affording greater opportunity is certainly no guarantee of greater participation by regular folks.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

I agree that the time of the meeting does not guarantee greater participation, however, this is not the only issue that I have with the meetings.

The agenda calls for citizens comments for items not on the agenda is scheduled for 3:30 p.m. which is 1.5 hours into the meeting (which in my opinion also discourages people from attending meetings) and seems to follow a recess for the board members. Now, I do understand that you can just show-up at that time to "have your 3 minutes" I just think that the format should be changed to allow citizens to speak directly after calling the meeting to order.

ADDITIONALLY, if there are to be any public hearings they should also be heard soon after the meeting is called to order. NOT 2 hours into the meeting.

Just observations and opinions...

please go to....my bank and deposit your money in my account...(-:

If I had to venture a guess...I would think Foxx "in the hen house" is our favorite lil' blonde "reporter".  She does not speak ill of good ol' George Bush and if I am not mistaken....was "very close" to Griffin. 

Tom Platt, who lost again, just needs to get over it and let it go.

To use one of TPlatt's campaign slogans... 

Getting over it and letting go...so easy a caveman can do it.

OK, you think Fitzgerald is part of some conspiracy against Griffin, got the picture.  You never answered the question, can you site any other time that Fitzgerald belittled or silenced a speaker on the board or at the podium?

No, i can't cite any other instances.  I appreciate you putting words into my mouth as i never said anything about a conspiracy, your words not mine.  You didn;t get the picture, but that's okay, you never do, b/c you always think threads in regards to Fitz degrading someone or threads that degrade Fitz are some big "Conspiracy" against her.  I was simply pointing out, as you corrected me in your first response that Griffin was not permitted to speak.  I used Platt as a piece of the puzzle (A BIG BLANK PUZZLE) with no picture or conspiracy in mind to add to my incorrect answer, thanks for the correction PB.  I'm tired of explaining myself to you, it was an answer to one question, not a conspiracy, not a bigger piece of a complex puzzle an incorrect answer to a question, that i was corrected on, again thanks for the correction.

I'm sorry could you elaborate on your thread, i didn't quite grasp it the one about the hen house and such.

Since the County Manager has streamlined the meetings that now only last between 2 to 3 hours excluding zoning meetings. A later start time would be better. It does not guarantee more people will show up and participate. However it does give them the option. 

I am not a fan of allowing citizens to speak at the beginning of the meeting and I think if they are not going to schedule the meeting later should keep it at a 3:30 time certain. This was an idea presented by the one term Commissioner Rutledge along with his idea of allowing citizens to speak only about what was on the agenda. I can think of several reasons why he only made 1 term.

The majority of citizens work outside of the county and commute. If you have to show up at 2:00 you miss a half of a day's work. Because you have to leave get back to Clay County and then don't want to make the second trip to Jacksonville to go back to work. So you can fight the traffic to get back home. We have the longest commute in the State of Florida. If it is scheduled later you can leave work later and only miss a few hours instead of several.

The problems I see are when they have a time certain for public comments those who want to speak are often pushed aside and some have sit there for over an hour later to speak. That's disrespectful to the citizens who took the time to show up for a time certain and was treated as less than a second class citizens. The Commissioners need to remember they work for the people.

Then after sitting there to be treated in such a disrespectful way as Commissioner Bush has on more than one meeting by attacking citizens.

I've seen alot of lip service about public participation in Clay County. But as my father always told me actions speak louder than words. The Commissioners actions have spoken on more than one occasion in this county.

The only time I've ever seen Ms. Fitzgerald have that type display at a meeting has been with the Buddy Griffin situation. However, I've seen her attacked on the board floor by Commissioner Bush as well.

Angela another thing that we mostly agree on. I see that we see "eye to eye" on this subject also. 

 I could understand the 3:30 time for the public comments as long as the chair has all of the county commissioners seated at that time also. (generally they recess before the public comments)

 I actually was 1st. up for the public comments the one and only time that I was in attendance and Bush called me to the podium and I found myself talking to 1/2 of the board at the start and finally had 2/3rds of them sitting when I finished. I am sure that what I had to say would have fallen on deaf ears anyway, I just would have liked to have had the respect from them to have been seated when I started. 

please go to....my bank and deposit your money in my account...(-:

Thanks for responding directly.  I have made my point.  I don't keep track of who I blog to, bad blogger.  I apologize that you have to respond more than once to my comments...I guess I just have questions about the truth in your words.  YOu seem to paint a picture that does not cover the whole issue.  As all of us who blog, read the media, hear the media, see the media, there is more than one side to every issue.  The real issue is that the media should never take sides and just report the facts, not half of the facts that they think will sell their papers, maybe that is why MCS is being cut back to only one day a week!

To all my fellow bloggers, I misspelled site, it should have been cite.