City Manager under investigation
Good Morning, Our city manager loves the City of Green Cove Springs & has done some very good things. It appears however that he has not followed the appropriate procedures when spending tax payer monies. We budgeted $150k for new restrooms in our city park ($112k was grant money). He spent over $206k and appears to have taken money out of a separate grant to pay for the overage. He did not ask city council for approval to spend the additional money. In my opinion, that is a violation of the city charter. His intension were good to improve the park, but when you spend over $200 a sq ft on a bathroom it creates a cloud. & taxpayers want to know why government is wasting their hard earned dollars. He has been repremanded before for spending more money on city projects than he was authorized. During last years audit, he caused 16 violations which caused "significant dificiencies" in our accounting. This effect our ability to borrow money and recieve other grants. Just 4-5 months ago when we discussed this he promised it wouldn't happen again. We'll it appears he may have done it again. The additional $60+ thousand he spent on the bathrooms was allowcated for parking for local businesses. Now we have to put off other projects. I personally like Mr. Bowles and believe his motives are pure. However, I took an oath to the taxpayer to defend thier money. The city manager works for the council & he is disregarding a direct order from the council & our auditors so I have called for an independant investigation. Hopefully, a neutral 3rd party will at the vvery least tell him what he is doing is wrong and how to correct it so it doesn't happen again. This is not a witch hunt. Sometimes bad practices go on and overlooked (Fannie Mae) too long and then serious problems occur. Maybe he will listen to an outside opinion in the matter. If nothing comes of it but a lesson on how to better manager the finances of the taxpayer, then the investigation is worth it. Sincerely, John Buchanan Council Seat 2
Related: councilmemberbuchanan's blog | login or register to post comments | printer friendly version | Tags: local politics
Submitted by councilmemberbu... on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 9:33am.
I have posted several things before, but this one gets to me because it appears that the city manager is just being defiant and dis-obeying a direct order. He has a lot of good qualities & has done a lot of good things for the city but he spends money on projects without permission. The reason that he is still around is basically politics. He is born and raised in G.C.S. His brother is the city manager of Orange Park. 10 yrs ago the voters decided it would be a 4-1 vote to remove any city manager. Two council members have repeatedly looked the other way on his spending practices which would lead me to believe termination is not even an option. Of course most people don't get envolved. If people would let their council members know mis-appropriation of money will not be tolerated, maybe they would do something about it. John E. Buchanan City Council Seat 2 Green Cove Springs Submitted by OneMann on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 10:05am.
Politics sure can put a damper on government efficiency, can't it? I didn't realize it takes a 4-1 vote to dismiss an employee. Can't imagine the politics that went into that decision. You are shifting responsibility, though. It should not be incumbent upon citizens to get involved by telling their representatives they oppose misappropriation of public funds. The people of Green Cove Springs have the right to expect their elected officials to already know that. Michael S. Mann
Submitted by alabayea on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 12:51pm.
1. Was the city council advised he was NOT qualified before hiring him? As I recall, there was a lot of controversy about that. 2. Did city council do a background check to see why he suddendly left his CC School position? Rumor is he was terminated. Is that correct?
Submitted by councilmemberbu... on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 1:37pm.
Correct on both questions- School board did not renew his contract. Again- he is a great guy who loves the city. However, loving the city is not a qualification for a job. John E. Buchanan City Council Seat 2 Green Cove Springs
Submitted by councilmemberbu... on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 1:42pm.
I agree and that is why I stood up and asked for the investigation. It has been overlooked too long. Previous reports about him spending too much money on projects at the school board 10 yrs ago were the cause for his non renewal of his contract. John E. Buchanan City Council Seat 2 Green Cove Springs Submitted by alabayea on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 1:47pm.
Then city council got exactly what they asked for. Submitted by dantheman on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 8:10pm.
Last March I was at my neighbors house and Don Bowles came up and told my neighbor not to vote for John Buchanan because he was trying to fire him. I was new in town and didn't know anybody. I told bowles that I would vote for his guy if he would get my street fixed. Bowles told me he would so I voted for Timberlake. I never heard from Bowles again. I calle dhis office several times and left messages but he never returned my calls. I talked to some of the guys from the Citty and they told me that Bowles never gets to work until noon. I'm glad I didn't vote for Buchanan because he can't even get Bowles to show up for work on time and answer his phone calls. If Bowles is out there wasting money, its City Councils own fault Submitted by dantheman on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 8:53pm.
I also didnt vote for Kelter. Buchanan says that Bowles overspent the budget by $76K. In the newspaper today kelter said that Bowles overspend the budget by $76,308.86. Two councilmen can't get their stories straight on how much was reallly wasted. $76,308.86!!!!!!! Down to the penny. Kelter must be an anal b_____d to worry about pennies.
Submitted by discontented on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 8:54pm.
Yea thats some price tag on a new "john" Another project that would be useful is the tennis courts on west st. They have gone downhill and noone is fixing them up. I played on those courts as a child with my family and have played a few times in the past with my children there. It is a shame that it has gotten that bad, And certainly while lovely restrooms are needed, some would love the enjoyment and excercise of those tennis courts again.These lavish spendings on things like court houses and restrooms are just a shame. didnt cost me a penny to go to those courts to play . NOw I have to spen 3plus dollars a gallon to go hunt a new court to play on .....sad
Submitted by mkelter on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 9:01pm.
Dantheman, I resemble those remarks. I am not an anal b_____d. I am a meticulously anal b_____d. Send me an e-mail. We can go out on your street and admire potholes. I can probably already tell you how much asphalt it will take to fix your street--to the nearest 1/100th of a ton. How's that for anal? Don't expect me to promise that we'll fix your street. We don't have any money. We spent it all building an outhouse in Spring Park that will withstand the blast of a thermonuclear explosion. Mike Kelter, PE
Submitted by discontented on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 9:08pm.
Maybe one could save face if it could double as a shelter.hahahahah, So Kelte4r when you say no money does that mean I can forget about those beloved tennis courts? Submitted by dantheman on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 9:10pm.
OK. So you're a meticulously anal b_____d with a sense of humor. But you're a lousy politician. At least bowles makes promises that he doesn't keep. You have no future in politics. Give it up. I noticed that you are dumb enough to put your e-mail address on your contact tab. I bet thats like inviting ants to your own picnic. I'll send you an e-mail. Dan
Submitted by mkelter on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 10:06pm.
Discontented, Regarding the West Street tennis courts. Would it make you feel any better if I took dantheman's advice and made an empty promise to fix the tennis courts that, I think, are owned by the County? Your hurricane shelter idea has some merit. (LOL) We could get a FEMA grant and build the bathroom seven stories high. Trust me when I tell you that the foundations will handle the load--they're serveral feet thick. The floor slab is 14.5" thick with about a ton of #5 rebar. We can't go much higher without violating City height restrictions. We could lease space for hurricane parties to pay off the cost over-runs on the existing outhouse. BYOB. Bring your own ice. You would never have to wait in line to go to the bathroom. Just thinking out loud. That's dangerous. Mike
Submitted by mkelter on Thu, 10/09/2008 - 10:15pm.
Dantheman, You think I'm a worse politician than Bowles. What about you? I'm still waiting for the e-mail you promised. Mike Submitted by deekim3 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 12:30pm.
I worked at the School Board when Don worked there. He was never on time for work, his projects were always over-budget and were never completed on time. I was surprised when Mike Kelter actually hired Don after the School Board asked him to leave. Kelter asked us about Don before he hired him to work for him as an inspector in the City public works department. We told hiim to keep a close eye on Don and his work habits. Kelter told me that he felt sorry for Don and that he thought Don probably learned his lesson and that he might be a good employee for the City. Kelter was new in town at the time and probably didn't know any better. Don didn't work for the City very long before everybody was complaining about Don's project change orders. I heard that Collin Groff wanted Kelter to fire Don, but Kelter refused to do it. Don didn't stay around very long. I guess Kelter was wrong about Don changing his ways. Don has never changed his ways and won't ever change his ways. Don wears you out until you get tired of trying. I mean, I like Don, but his bad habits are really bad and can become really destructive after a while. I am surprised that the City council has been as forgiving with Don as they have been. I don't think that firing Don is the right thing to do, but if I lived in GCS, I would want Don to pay back every nickle that he spent without approval.
Submitted by discontented on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 1:15pm.
MKelter, I never expect promises from anyone and if I did I definitely expect them to be empty, lol what a world we live in. I was not aware that the county was responsible for those tennis courts. It is just sad to me to see them go to waste. We seem to have more police in Green Cove now, so a patrol in that area could help to prevent vandals. Heck a patrol in that area could be used for speeders too, with the ball park there it wouldnt hurt. Also whom would I contact within the county about those tennis courts? About the restrooms/hurricane party headquarters.lol Is any of the cost of those restrroms added to my always growing electric bill from the city of Green Cove? Just wondering. Cause to pay a bill for restrooms I have not nor will I ever use , in addition to paying for the restroom in my house that myswelf and my children must use, is breaking my piggy bank. Thank you for your input and info. and for the laugh I sure can use that lately. Submitted by politics101 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 4:12pm.
Calling the bathroom at Spring Park an outhouse is like calling Ruths' Chris a "steak-joint". The Bathroom in question was built to be a moveable structure,(required a thicker foudation) is fire resistant, (to deter vandalism) and houses a VERY LARGE electrical box that has all of the parks electrical circuits passing through it. It also has a steel roof on it to provide longevity. And YES you COULD seek shelter from high winds in this bathroom as it was built to withstand 130 m.p.h. winds. ALL of this should be NO SUPRISE to the City Council as the specifications were provided to them BEFORE it was built. Heck even if they were not provided, I am VERY SURE that Mayor Mike would have known what was going on as he is a Civil Engineer by trade/profession. If the project specifications are such an issue now...why were they not then?..TOO much "hot air" and political "postureing" is involved now, as those in City Council are "setting a stage" and getting all of the actors signed on to finally get what they want... By the way...The Tennis courts on west street are OWNED by the County and the parks and recreation division knows the state of decay that they are in and will not dop anything about them.
Submitted by finder on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 4:59pm.
Maybe I'm just being a little dense here. Why would this thing have to be a 'moveable structure' if it has a large electrical box that houses the park's electrical circuits. What are they planning on moving this thing with? Be that as it may, I think the point of the whole blog was the fact that money was taken from someplace that it should not have been to pay or cost over runs. Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair. Submitted by politics101 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 6:01pm.
Mike, From what I understand there are going to be alot of changes to the Spring Park area to include the Police Station moving, renovation or demolition of the old city hall building etc...This bathroom was built with the future changes in the park considered... It only makes sense that the bathroom was built like it was. Like I said before, to my knowledge the cost and specifications associated with building the bathroom was considered BEFORE it was approved by the city council. The opinions on where the money came from to build the bathroom and if there were any inproprities associated with it are ALL SPECULATION... There have also been "grumblings" about the paths that have been constructed in Spring Park. The path meets or exceeds the guidelines for the Florida trails Grant program..The reason that they exceed the program guidelines is that these paths/trails are constructed near the river and needed to be "up-graded" to account for the possibilities of front-end loaders and heavy equipment that will be needed in maintaining the area of the park that meets the river. Right now the main purpose this blog was started by Councilman Buchanan was for him to "blow-off" some steam and to set things in motion for the ensuing battle with the City Manager. If you go to the City Hall and request the public records on this and other issues you will see that there has been a "orchastrated attack" levied against the city manager for some time now. There have been investigations into the City Managers residence, (he has been exonarated by independent third parties), he has had citizens have private investigators follow him, he has been investigated for issues pertaining to the Thomas Hogans Gym, (again exonarated)....so if you have the ability to see beyond the "political agendas" you will see that there is more here than meets the eyes....
Submitted by finder on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 6:18pm.
Thanks. I was more curious about the 'moveable' part than anything else. It at least makes more sense with the information you provided than it did before. The 'out houses' I was used to moving didn't have much in the way of a foundation. Dig a new hole, get a couple of people to pick it up (maybe 4 if it was a two holer) to put it over the new hole then fill in the old hole. Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.
Submitted by discontented on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 8:06pm.
Just curious Finder but are all of your comments political advertisements?
Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair....................Just wondering, told ya I dont realy "get" politics Submitted by deekim3 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 9:24pm.
There is a difference between Poliitics 101 and Construction Management 101. Politics 101 teaches you that you build a new Ruth's Crist Steakhouse in an undesirable location and then move it at enormous sums of money. Construction 101 teaches you to either build it in the right location the first time or to put the things on wheels if you want to move in later. In either case, you do it at a fraction of the cost that GCS paid for the ugly monstrosity that got built in Spring Park. MOVE IT WITH FORK LIFTS. ARE YOU INSANE? I don't know what Don told anybody about the specifications until the last minute. Knowing Don the way I do, the specifications were made up on the fly and presented on the back of an envelope at the last minute. Don doesn't plan. Don also doesn't ask for permission. Submitted by politics101 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 10:09pm.
deekim3 Here is a difference for you. I know that you "read into" things what you want them to say. I do NOT. I do not see anywhere where ANYONE said ANYTHING about moving this building with fork lifts. Due to your interpretation of this discussion YOU must be a politician as MOST politicians tell us what they think we need to hear and what they want to say and it usually does not make any sense. If you know about " CM101 than I am sure that you have knowledge of things getting built with no intention of ever moving it, only having to do just that. My case and point. Downtown Jacksonville was home to a VERY LAARGE government bank at one time. This bank had Safes that were BEYOND HUGE and were moved WITHOUT Forklifts. Have you ever seen Houses (not modular homes) that were built, with no intention of moving them, and were moved? NO ONE ever said that it made sense. I can PROMISE you one thing though and with Mayor Mike watching EVERYTHING that has to do with anything (espically any project that includes engineering) He knew EXACTLY what was being built and if he did not I would be VERY surprised. Like I have said in the past, evidently there is going to be an investigation and EVERYTHING that we say here is speculation. That is UNLESS Mayor MIKE has anything to add that supports or refutes any statements made here.. Submitted by deekim3 on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 11:59pm.
Politics101 You miss my point. Of course the outhouse can be moved. Anything can be moved. The question is: WHY? The building is ugly. If it were a work of architectural genious, it might be worth saving. Don could have built two good restroom facilities for the cost that he built the one that he did. You don't need to build sidewalks to move armored columns through Spring Park. You need sidewalks for people to walk on. If you need to move front end loaders and dump trucks through the park, there are ways of doing that without breaking standard sidewalks. Its done all the time. The main point is that in these economically troubled times, why would anybody overspend their budget without getting permission. That is not acceptable. Can I prove that he didn't have permission? No. Don hasn't let the meeting minutes get posted on www.greencovesprings.com for over a year. Submitted by politics101 on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 12:22am.
deekim3, NO I did not miss your point. Your point is noted if you read my last last post. OH, and by the way beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If this building is everything that has been presented there are a few engineers out there that may disagreee with you. As far as money being spent other that where it was able to be spent....we will find EVERYTHING out soon, I am sure. to quote me... "NO ONE ever said that it made sense. " and if you read the rest of that paragraph to quote me again... "I can PROMISE you one thing though and with Mayor Mike watching EVERYTHING that has to do with anything (espically any project that includes engineering) He knew EXACTLY what was being built and if he did not I would be VERY surprised. " to quote you...and to refute your statement... "Can I prove that he didn't have permission? No. Don hasn't let the meeting minutes get posted on www.greencovesprings.com for over a year. " To my knowledge the City of Green Cove Springs has JUST gotten "up to speed" with technology from 10 years ago and have not quite figured out how to post the minutes on the web site with the newly aquired software and hardware. If you do not believe me go to City Hall...Talk to Margie Robertson (the city clerk) and ask her for a c.d. of all of the council members e-mails from the last 90 days, and she will tell you that she has to call somebody to come to city hall (I.T.) and have them do it. (at least that was the case 2 months ago). As far as Don Bowles telling her that he does not want the Minutes on the web site that is a bunch of Baloney. Even if that were the case, we as citizens can request the minutes AT ANY TIME and they MUST be pruduced. The Internet is just a Convience to our laziness. SO before making a lame statement like..."Can I prove that he didn't have permission? No. Don hasn't let the meeting minutes get posted on www.greencovesprings.com for over a year. " think about what you are about to say and make sure it does not make you look like a fool that is on a fishing expedition without a fishing pole. Submitted by politics101 on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 12:36am.
Trying to get back on "track" with the intentions of the origionator of this thread.... John Buchanan makes the statement...concerning Don Bowles.."In my opinion, that is a violation of the city charter" I have some information for everyone..Here are 2 excerpts from the City Charter.... This pertains to Councilman buchanan who has moved out of the city of Green Cove Springs and put his house up for rent, sometime within the last 4 months. He has moved to a newly purchased home on the river on IVEY LANE. This information was obtained from several citizens of the City of Green Cove Springs. "Section 2.02. Composition, qualifications and terms of office. The council shall consist of five (5) members, elected at large by the qualified voters of the city. They shall be qualified electors, citizens of the United States and shall have resided within the corporate limits of the city for at least the six (6) months immediately prior to the date of their qualifying for office." " Section 2.08. Vacancies and forfeiture of office. ...A council member shall forfeit his office if he (1) lacks at any time during his term of office any qualification for the office prescribed by this Charter or by law, ..."My Question for everyone is...how can someone who MAY have violated the city charter (according to basic, laymans enterpretation of the charter) accuse someone else of a violation? Submitted by dantheman on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 7:27am.
My country-boy logic must be failing me. Tractor Tire Don makes $95,000.00 per year and doesn't get his rear-end out of his bed on Wilkes Point road until 10:00 and doesn't get to the office until noon, and doesn't answer phone calls. Sounds like he's the boss to me. His buddy, who is the big cheese at Public Works makes $75,000.00 per year and never has to show up for work. Sounds to me like hes the bosses sidekick. Kelter makes $4800 per year and can't make the City Manager get to work on time or answer his phone or fire his sidekick who never shows up to work. Sounds to me like Kelter isn't the boss. If I understand you right Mr. Politician101, when the Boss and his sidekick, who make $170,000 per year combined plus fringe benefits, goes $76,300.00 overbudget on an outhouse project, we should be blaming the guy who makes $4800 per year for not checking Tractor Tire Don's plans and specs. You must be a real politician. You think we a dumber than fifth graders.
Submitted by finder on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 7:35am.
This isn't on topic but you asked here so this is where I'll answer about the political advertisement disclaimer. The State of Florida has determined that if you say something on a blog site that is designed to help you get elected then you must attach the disclaimer to that statement. Everything I say is obviously not meant to be a political statement but I would rather put the disclaimer on everything than to miss one that is or could be construed as one. Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair. Submitted by alabayea on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 11:08am.
Government entities usually authorizes manager a dollar amount they can spend without obtaining council approval. What is GCS manager's spending limit without council approval? A contract approved by council that exceeds contract cost by $76,000 if it was without council approval and exceeded his spending limit, demands attention of the council. That is NOT grandstanding. Submitted by dantheman on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 12:59pm.
Mr. Politician 101 You say that City Council should be doing oversight. You seem to be saying that Council should be enacting tough policy changes. Seems to me that you should be tickled like a dog getting its belly rubbed. Looks to me like Council is checking up on Tractor Tire Don and is enacting a tough policy change by enforcing the law when it comes to spending taxpayer money. Seem to me like you are just whining.
Submitted by discontented on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 1:10pm.
Thanks Finder, as I said before I was just wondering since Im pretty ignorant to the politics discussed here. But I am interested in learning about it. Submitted by outofsort on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 1:25pm.
THE CITY COUNCIL DOES NOT REVIEW PLAN AND SPECS. ON PROJECTS.THEY APPROVE MONIES FOR PROJECTS.IF THERE IS A COST OVERRUN THEN IT IS UP TO THE PROJECT MANAGER TO EXPLAIN WHY,AND THEN AND ONLY THEN TO ASK FOR MORE FUNDING (READ THE CHARTER) Submitted by outofsort on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 1:34pm.
dANI AM SO GALD WE GOT TOGETHER I FORGOT TO MENTION IN MY BLOG THAT YOU WILL NOW TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY ABOUT THE VOTE BRIBE TO FIX YOUR STREET(tHE BRIBE YOU MENTIONED FROM THE CITY MANAGER)
Submitted by joeriley08 on Sat, 10/11/2008 - 5:12pm.
Things are getting exciting here! Mayor Kelter do you have any input for us?
Submitted by joeriley08 on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 11:16am.
Please note that I am not hiding behind some obscure user name. What is going on in Green Cove Springs? Please forgive me as I may tend to "rant" in this blog entry, however, I am tired of what has been going on. Please Note that I will NOT name names on the record. If you want to know names you will have to go to city hall and ask for answers to any questions that you may have. (it is ALL public record) I watched this thread throughout the day yesterday (saturday) and was interested to see that we now have a Grand Jury investigation, council members moving out of the city, citizens educating each other on the charter and major complaints about a bathroom in the park. Can someone please tell me what the motivation here is all about? I have had people in the city ask me what this is all about and I cannot tell them. My question to those on this site is the following. As it appears that there is and has been a concentrated effort to remove the City Manager, Don Bowles, who do you plan on replacing him with? I would assume that as this "movement" against Don has been on-going for several years now there MUST be a candidate for his position that is on the sidelines just waiting to pounce. As has been stated in this blog, at City Council meetings, and in several news papers there is a contigent of individuals in the city that believe that Don Bowles is not "up to par" regarding his job performance. If it is true that he is not doing his job then PLEASE come to the city Council Meetings, MAKE YOUR POINT and Insist that the City Council do their job and replace him. BUT remember, getting what you ask for is NOT always BETTER than what you have. I am really indignat about the fact that there are a couple of individuals (you know who you are) that have nothing to do all day so they pretty much live in City Hall and fill out their requests for public information so that they can look for that one "i" that was not dotted or "t" that was not crossed so that they can file a complaint or add to a long list of complaints in a law suit. On a "side note" if you took the money you have spent on law suits (and lost) and put that money to good use, you might have a few people in the city that actually like you. (*not that you care what people think about you*) It is a real shame that one of these "special" individuals (Citizens) that lead the charge against Don, is also the same one that Don spends alot of his time helping with his attempts at developing commercial property in Green Cove. We have another individual in particular that has a "score to settle" with Don, (Don fired him) and it is evident that this will never stop until he completes his mission. You two people need to GROW-UP (god knows you are old enough to know better) stop hitting the "bottle", get a life, and do something really productive. I have NEVER known two individuals that are as "hard harted" and bent on destroying the life of one individual in my life. I can only pray that there really is an after-life at which time you will be repaid for your deeds here on earth. One thing I have noticed in the city is that it seems that OUR city is "run" by a distinct "few", (imagine that) and until those individuals either die off or move out this city will NEVER move forward. Hate, Discontent, bitterness, drunkeness, power brokering, and just plain old GREED never is healthy and, until the Citizens of Green Cove Springs TAKE OVER and stop letting those that feel they have a "strangle hold" on the City (and the City Council) run the city, step-up start taking an active interest in the business dealings of our city, and start making a committment to attend city council meetings and become active in the decisions of city council nothing will change. I have heard COUNTLESS individuals make statements that they are tired of the monopoly of certian business owners that have gripped the city in their "grasp of greed" and they are tired because no one seems to be able to do anything about it. Well, I ask all of you out there are you tired also? do you want to see this city move on? Are you tired of seeing the same mistakes happen over and over again? Are you tired of your complaints going unanswered or unresolved? If you are let's do something about it. Send me an e-mail with your concerns, let's become involved in our community. This is our fundamental right! the Constitution states that ..... -All political power is inherent in the people.- I think that it is time the City Council remember that ! Joe Riley Submitted by bobg on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 11:40am.
Joe, If you really believe that all political power is inherent in the people, why are you supporting a City Manager who runs roughshod over the City Charter by continously violationing its fiscal provisions by exceeding spending limits set by the City Council. The City Charter is the only "Law" that the people have direct control over. Therefore when the City Manager runs roughshod over the Charter provisions, he is running roughshod over the people. Yes, I am tired of seeing the City Manager make the same mistakes of violating the City Charter over and over. And this time, I hope something positive is done about his latest violations. Bob Gamble
Submitted by joeriley08 on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 12:31pm.
Mr. Gamble, Thank you for "coming-out" and identifying who you are. I can appreciate that move even though I do not agree with the way you are doing things (I am entitled to my opinion) Understand that I am NOT attacking you, or anyone else for that matter, I am just tired of the Games and want to see it all end one way or the other. Let me set the record straight, because it seems that you have a misconception of my intent. My intent is as follows.............. I support the truth, and I want the FULL truth to come out PERIOD. What I do not support..... In the past several years I have seen, and heard of, individuals (to include yourself on ocassion) attack the City Manager, Sue the City and City Manager, hire private detectives to follow him around and basically spend a very large amount of time and effort to otherwise badger, intimidate and harrass him. (and the outcome is that he is still in the position of City Manager) I do agree that Government and elected officials should have accountability to the citizens that they represent. And we, as citizens, should expect that Government/elected officials remember who they represent and what is expected of them. My questions to you are.......... #1 If this campaign to remove the City Manager does not succeed for you, and those that support your actions, what are you going to do? #2 What assurances can you give to those of us "on the side-lines" that you are not just on a vendetta to get back at Don Bowles for firing you from your City job? (you do know that is what it looks like, right?) #3 As it appears that there may be a City Council member that may be in violation of the City Charter as he has taken his family and moved out of the city, Are you going to persue that issue with as much diligence and vigor? I can probably answer those questions for myself, but, I will wait for yourt response. Joe Riley Submitted by bobg on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 1:42pm.
Mr. Riley, I return the courtesy of using your surname, but you may call me Bob, which I prefer. Now please let me set the record straight. I am for good government. Trying to get good government is not a game. It is serious business. I have not hired a private detective, nor contributed finacially to one. I don't believe I have badgered, intimidated or harassed anyone in the City. I have requested public records, and attended and spoken at City Council Meetings. I totally agree that public officials and our elected leaders should remenber who thay represent. But from my perspective, Council Members Page and Ricks have been much too willing to ignore the abuses of the City Manager. He needs to be held accountable for his apparent abuses of the fiscal restraints placed on his position of City Manager by the City Charter. This is not a compaign to remove the City Manager. This is a looking for good government. If that requires a new City Manager, so be it. If Mr. Bowles retains his position, I will still expect good government. If he can provide that, so be it. I cannot give you any satisfactory assurance that this not a vendetta to get back at Mr. Bowles for firing me. I expect that the issue of residency of a City Council Member will receive about the same amount or more attention as the residency of the City Manager received. If you would like to discuss these or other matters further, I would be glad to meet with and do so. Bob Gamble
Submitted by joeriley08 on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 2:42pm.
Bob, I appreciate you candor pertaining to my questions and you may call me Joe. I only question the way that certian individuals have acted in their efforts to fix what MAY be issues with the City Manager and his style of leadership. My main issue is that I have only heard when the issues arise and in a very loud and "in your face" manner. When the outcome is obtained it is very "hush-hush" I guess that is the way things are. Front page news always turns into a snip-it of information on page 8. Now Bob, I hope that you remember that I was present at the supervisor of elections office when you were there to "observe" the canvassing event. Do you remember your attitude towards a certain individual as you were waiting to see if he actually voted? I remember, and the impression that I got from you was that you are a very bitter and vindictive person. (again my opinion of how you presented yourself that evening) So when you say that you are not on a campaign to remove the City Manager I have a very hard time believing that. (just my opinion) As far as the City Manager abusing his position, I guess we will find-out after this "independant investigation". I just hope that this ENDS the issue. One of the reasons that I am very "hot" on this issue is that when I was running for City Council this year I endured Threats, intimidation, name calling and otherwise "dirty politics" (not from Mike Kelter) which I guess I was willing to endure. However, When I was about to qualify for the special election to replace Debbie Ricks and to oppose Ron Snow, I received two phone calls that threatned me, my family and my carrear. ( I was called from a pay phone and the coward did not identify himself) These actions seem to be coming from the same people all of the time. I guess that I could expect a "few loose cannons" in this type of small town atmosphere, I just did not expect that there are people that fear losing control so much that they would threaten to harm women and children. As for my question #2 to you, that really was not a question that I expected for you to be able to answer. I do appreciate the effort though. I was a little concerned by your earlier blog entry that insinuiated that there is going to be a grand jury investigation into Don Bowles about bribing a citizen for a vote. That , in my opinion, is going to be a very slippery slope as I am sure if I were to go out into the general public with some "loaded" questions I would find that there were alot of "bartering for votes" going on. I have talked to several individuals, that did not know who I was, that made statements to me that could put into question the ethics of several Council members on that issue. But, I digress, as the election is well over and in my spirit of wanting the City Of Green Cove Springs and its residents to move forward I choose to consider that issue as water under the bridge. In my opinion I do not believe that a "one on one" meeting with you would really be productive, as I have not seen or heard Don Bowles "side of the story" ( I am sure that we will hear it at the next meeting), However, if you would like to meet sometime on tuesday I would be willing to hear what you have to say. Just let me know what time is conveinent for you. I am sure that you have a way to get ahold of my cell phone number and if you cannot please feel free to contact me through my username her on MCS as I allow e-mail contact. Joe Submitted by bobg on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 8:53pm.
Joe, Just one comment tonight. Please go back and reread my previous entries here. I have never made any comment about a grand jury. Bob
Submitted by joeriley08 on Sun, 10/12/2008 - 9:57pm.
Bob, I stand Corrected. No you did NOT have that in any of your blog entries. I apologize. Those entries can be attributed to "outofsort" whom ever that may be as they choose to hide behind an obsecure username. I will be sure to read a little more carefully in the future. Joe
People are talking about ...Here are the recent blog postings with the most comments. |
Who's online
There are currently 1 user and 185 guests online.
Online usersRecent comments |
John, thank you for sharing a perspective from the GCS Council. Perhaps you could answer a few questions for me.
If the employee ultimately responsible for budget management was cited for 16 auditing violations which are negatively affecting the city's access to credit or ability to qualify for state or federal grants, why in the world is the employee still around to possibly violate city procedures and overspend 76K on one project? Because he said it wouldn't happen again? Is there a "17 strikes and you're out" policy on the GCS Council?
What about this particular incident warranted the unusual effort of you sharing it with us?
Michael S. Mann
michaelsmann@comcast.net