Liberal talking points

Felix;

I can't 'talk' to all of them but I'll put my 2 cents worth in on a couple of them:

Exxon-Mobil - Exxon Valdez! They paid relatively nothing for this disaster. $11B in profits for many recent quarters while the American economy is going down the tubes because of oil prices. I believe many people think of them as the Enron of the oil industry and quite honestly that is pretty much my opinion of them.

Bush - My problem with him is his choice to go into Iraq. He let Cheney have too much to say about how the war was and is run. I think his official IQ has been over stated. I think it may really be in the double digit range.

Cheney - His only war experience was Viet Nam. He didn't do well there either. He has ties to Halliburton which did not have a stellar reputation while he was there. I think most of the time he runs a few grains shy of a full load himself. That may be why there wasn't all that much damage done by his errant shot.

Halliburton - Can you say bribes? I don't mean just in Nigeria. My opinion is that the only reason this didn't go further was because Cheney was VP.

Blackwater, other security contractors - I think it is the idea that we are using these companies at all. They are in fact mercenaries. I don't have a lot of issues with that as long as we call it what it really is. We do not have enough military personnel to do the job so we have to hire companies like these.

They do things that we would not let the military do and turn a semi blind eye to it. The problem I see is that when they do 'step over the line' the line is so much farther out than what the average American thinks it is, or should be, that they are appalled.

They are what they are. And they are darn good at what they do. We just need to keep a little tighter rein on them sometimes. The other thing we need to do is not throw them under the bus when the American public finds out what they have been doing at our request.

You know, sometimes in the heat of battle 'stuff happens'. And these guys are put into some of the worst possible situations. I'm not saying that I condone everything they do, but they are there because we hired them to do a job. And sometimes that job produces results that may not look so good in the bright light of public scrutiny.

Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.

Felix, you know there isn't anything to be afraid of. Those are just some names or concepts that have become symbols of different approaches to federal government, nothing different than the buzzwords and phrases conservatives and the GOP adopt for their own. Heck, even Democrats and liberals are smart enough to know that.

Of course, the party that offered us McGovern and Dukakis often finds it difficult to pull itself together long enough to offer its supporters something to be passionate about - except change. So they come up with things, like on your list, to be against.

Even a hardcore, conservative Republican with a wife, two kids and a dog and cat, who tithes at his Christian church on Sunday before skipping the football game on TV and volunteering to stuff envelopes for a pro-family, anti-abortion fundraiser can figure out why those specific things made the list of liberal campaign hot button targets. It is a fun list, though:

Exxon-Mobile - $1,500 per second profit while a growing number of people are having to choose between gas and groceries.

Bush - Ineffective prosecution of a war projected to last a decade should be enough to generate some passionate opposition for any president, especially one who has shown along the way an unwillingness to consider the possibility of having made a mistake. The way the federal government handled Katrina further proved his ineffectiveness. So has taxpayers spending a trillion dollars to cover the bets of greedy folks on Wall Street. There shouldn't be need for anything other than that, although the normal course of partisan politics during the adminstration of a president whose approval rating steadily declined over the final six years has provided ample opposition for those who are Democrat or perhaps just liberal.

Cheney - Typical partisan politics, augmented by his lengthy experience as one of Washington's powerful and rumors that the president is not very bright and Cheney makes a lot of decisions. Plus, he shot a man in the face and the man apologized!

Rove - Visibly ran a White House staff strong-willed and partisan enough to make himself a target of the opposition, augmented by rumors that the president isn't very bright, etc.

Any conservative judge on the Supreme Court - May come down to something as simple as Rowe v. Wade. May be plain ol' partisan politics. May be just an invention of the media with its nose stuck up the behinds of Washington and churches, where that's the only place it's a real issue.

Newt Gingrich - Visible and extremely effective partisan leader of a House of Congress. Like when Kobe Bryant comes to town. You know he's great, but you're still gonna boo him and cheer for the home team. Why wouldn't the partisan opposition have a healthy dose of dislike? Not to mention he made a big deal out of the Democrats' only golden boy since JFK letting some poor intern earn extra credit.

Haliburton - Folks have a healthy distrust of companies with friends in high places that get large, no-bid contracts.

Blackwater - Folks have a healthy distrust of mechanisms used to disguise the actual cost of war.

Welfare Reform - You got me on that one, Felix, 'cause I haven't heard any outcry - conservative or liberal, Democrat or Republican - against welfare reform. Heard some objections about specific reform proposals, but not reform itself.

Focus on the Family - The perception of liberals is that Focus on the Family has a rather narrow perception of family and family values and how it should be applied to effect political change. The reality is that there are many different kids of families with many different kinds of family situations, and all can't and don't want to be pigeon-holed into the June and Ward Cleaver value system.

Fox News - Because it's so blatantly obvious that "Fair and Balanced" and "No Spin Zone" are only advertising slogans.  For me personally, is those three childish stand-up comedian wannabes who host Fox's morning show.  Geez, they'd insult the intelligence of most 16-year-olds.  Of course, CNN's hosts also seemed to be selected for their comedic aspirations as opposed to journalistic expertise.

No Child Left Behind - Well, it spends millions and millions of dollars creating layers and layers of bureaucracy to make sure teachers become clerk/teachers. And because the only way you can make sure the slowest kid isn't left behind is by slowing down everyone else is the race. Let's see ... millions, bureaucracy, stifling teachers, less-educated students.

Give Democrats eight years in the White House, and maybe they'll have figured out a way to do something important enough that the GOP could make its own list of buzzwords to campaign against.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Finder: 

Cheney never served in Viet Nam nor anywhere else.  The cowardly and selfish Cheney only enjoys sending other people's children to kill and be killed.  This link is pretty informative on your current President of Vice. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Politicians/DickCheney_VN_Hypocrisy.html

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Sunflower;

I may not have stated that very well. I didn't mean he served. Which he certainly did not. What I was alluding to was the fact that he managed to beat being drafted with whatever means it took to stay at home.

Political advertisement paid for and approved by, Mike Heemer, write-in, for Commission Chair.

Whew!  You had me a little worried there. Thanks for clarifying.

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You two gave some pretty good answers, I like how OneMan pointed out that much of the liberal hatred is based on partisan perception.  It's hard to dispute that Democrats dislike a Republican for being strong.

I usually disregard the designations of "partisan" and "non-partisan" in regards to issues.  All politics is partisan, all the time, and that is the way it should be.  If one issue is addressed by a Republican plan and a differing Democrat plan, then one has to be better than the other and a compromise is a partial loss.  If one party is being partisan and the other non-partisan, then the non-partisan is the one who will have to give up what they want.

Cheney was secretary of Defense under Big Bush.  His ties to Haliburton do raise concerns about the "military-industrial" complex in that he was a defense government official, then CEO of a (mostly) defense contractor, then vice president.  This career pattern is open to unethical influence peddling over a number of years, but Cheney has been under so much scrutiny that if anything illegal was proven it would have turned out by now.

Rove-though it wasn't discussed in this blog, the general liberal (and some of the more right wing conservatives, Constitution Party) impression seems to be that Rove is a central figure in increasing the power of the Executive Branch.  The way some people talk you would think the president is a king.

Fox and Friends-I think I've seen that maybe once...I think that is just a symptom of the larger problem of morning television being just terrible.  That is also time they run all the goofy christian shows...you can still buy miracle spring water from Peter Poppof, then it's time for Jerry and about 6 ripoffs of the "Peoples Court." 

No Child Left Behind-I rarely look at education issues, I figure that as long as the kids are getting good grades then everything is ok.  No Child Left Behind has received a lot of bad-mouthing over the years, but I see anyone coming up with anything better. 

Welfare reform-I don't know where I got that one either.  I seem to remember a great deal of debate before and after Clinton signed it into law, but it has been a while and I can't offer any specifics. 

Some of these have emotional appeal only to the most liberal,

Ken Starr

Kathryn Harris

Faith Based Initiative

Climate Change

English Only

Empire

War for Oil

Anything done by Republicans that is preceeded by the word "illegal"

theocracy

dominionism

islamophobia

homophobia

pro-life/anti-choice

globalism

G8

First let me say I don’t care to be paying high prices for gas, but it is not because Exxon-Mobil, Shell, BP, or any other oil company is driving up the prices. Do you not pay attention to the stock market? That is what is the main reason of the cost of oil / gas. Plus when is making a profit a crime? Don’t hit that keyboard yet. Look at other major corporations in the NASDAQ 500 and you will see that their profit margin is higher than the oil companies. Why are you not complaining about them? The oil companies reinvest over half of their evil profits back into exploration, research, and development, they also have stockholders they have to keep happy with dividends. I bet if you checked our local teachers, fire, and police unions they just might hold stock in oil companies. You do know that the “profit” is .08 a gal? Go to your local package store and ask them what the profit is on a quart of rum, I got a feeling if they tell you the truth it will be quite a bit more than .08.
Halliburton- You are right what a bunch of crooks, anyone that would use them should be run out of town. Just one problem with that, before GW took office Bill Clinton  (your hero) signed a multi-year contract with them to do exactly what they are doing. It was the second time he had signed that contract. Now I’m not going to jump all over Bill like the rest of you like to blame everything on GW including the bird s--t on your car, I am just pointing out who signed the contract. Just an other thought, do you know of any other company in the US that can do this type of work.
Bush- Yes the war is taking too long, only because we are not fighting it as a war. You can’t send our military in and say get the job done, but you must ask permission first before you do anything. In WWI and WWII we fought the war to win no matter what it took. Since then we worry too much about what the rest of the world thinks of us. In the past month Russia thinks we are a third rate power, and Iran is beginning to think so too. To me the only thing Bush has done right is stayed the course in Iraq.
I just wish before people post they would do a little research instead of taking the easy way out and just saying it’s all GW’s  fault
 

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.

You do know that the “profit” is .08 a gal?

I think this particular bit o' info is misplaced. That is the profit a gas station selling the finished product makes. I believe the real question is how do you make 10 billion dollars profit even when you are buying oil at 95 - 147 dollars a barrel? Another question is why are we allowing these creeps to suck oil out of Alaska and sell it to Japan? What? We got too much?

To me the only thing Bush has done right is stayed the course in Iraq.

Is this after the fact that the entire operation was a screw up from the get go? Bush only got us into this war as revenge for Saddam trying to kill his daddy. That's my belief anyway. We could argue that all night and never resolve that conflict either. If Bush had even a little clue he would have sent a small assassination team in to do in Saddam and sons and be done with it. This is too much like Viet Nam. I remember that war too well after all these years. Not one person has died for any good reason to today. And I REALLY resent these draft dodgers sendin these kids to die for no good reason at all. I hope they all burn in Hell.

The cowardly and selfish Cheney only enjoys sending other people's children to kill and be killed. 

 Do you honestly believe that to be the case?  I don't like Cheney but I certainly would not ever say he enjoys sending other people's children to be killed.  If you really believe that, I'm sorry for you.  You have a sad world view.

In response to FTD, Russia has us where it wants us.  Unless there is some change in policy, we are going to have a 3 year period after the shuttle program is discontinued where we will be dependent upon Russia for all our space missions.  I think that is completely jacked up.  To make it even sweeter, the Russian space center is actually in Uzbekistan, Russia just rents the city.  All the rhetoric about the US standing up to Russia over Georgia was just talk, we need satelites more than we need Georgia.

OGV, I've been meaning to ask you how you intend on voting for Ron Paul for President.  Is he gong to be on the ballot, and if so, is he running as an independent or a libertarian?

I believe Ron Paul will be on the ballot as  a write in, not my favorite pick but neither are any of the others. In the end, seems like no matter who i could vote for, nobody is going to be "just right". Here is a web site to look at. Again, not my first choice but as I will also be writing in Mile Heemer, this will be good practice.

http://www.ronpaularmy.com/

They would have you beleive that any company that makes any type of profit is BAD!..........They forget thats why companies start up, to make money, oil or otherwise......

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

I think you mean grand theft robbery Mr. Musey. And it ain;t just oil, it's almost everything. Read this account on the thugs at Lehman Brothers. Frankly, NOBODY is worth 5 million dollars + a year. Thanks to exectutives we are now looking at another great depression.

http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://76.96.38.13/data/news/2008/10/06/1079684.xml

Nope, I mean Free market and Capitalism.  How come when someone makes money or even a large amount of money, alot of people think thats a bad thing?  Hello, its the American Way.  Work hard your whole life and you may have the opportunity to make alot of money yourself, If not, move to China, and your almost guareented never to be wealthy.  I say, if you can make the big bucks, do it, its the land of the free.......otherwise vote for Obama, eliminate the middle class, and keep breast feeding off the government....

JATFUS!

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

I have no bone to pick with people who work hard and make a lot of money. No one but a failure would object to that. What I pointed outin the link was these thieves who had NOTHING to do with founding that company stealing billions in "bonuses" while looking for the federal government to bail out their incompetent decisions. That ain't free enterprise, That is grand theft. If you take a good look at that board of directors you might think you are looking at the FBI's ten most weanted list. You really should have radial keratotomy to remove those rose colored irises of yours.

Mr. Munsey, for some reason there are people that think free markets can be controlled by government set wages, and prices. I think Russia does this and it appears not to work too well.. In a free market it must be free. If the stockholders do not like what the CEO is getting they vote him out. If you don’t like the product don’t buy it. I remember when we had limited price controls back in the 70’s it did not work, it only made things worse. This bailout plan was a bad idea, no one will learn anything from this, except, I can do what ever I want and the government will cover my a--.
When will people realize government is not the answer.:
There is no money in any account for Social Security, if you believe there is I would like to smoke some of what you have.
Medicaid / Medicare is broke
Now everyone wants the government to give us universal health care. Why not they have done such a good job with the above two programs.
Here is one you may not know about. If you qualify (and the list is long) the government will give you a free cell phone and free minutes every month.
Free markets make this country work. Who do you think hires the workers and pays the taxes? People need to think long and hard about this election.

Here is a fact your unbiased news media does not report. Only 4 percent of all home mortgages are in default . Granted  the number may be large but 96 percent of homeowners are making their payments.

Once again go to youtube.com search for "burning down the house" for those of you who really want some answers this may help.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.

Here's a challenge for all you researchers, In fact, it's actually a dare.  I'll give you from now until Hell freezes over to come up with the name of just one government supervised program that actually works the way the politicians told us it was going to.  Every law that is enacted for the benefit of the common taxpayer should be written in red ink.  The money that the taxpayer gives, thinking that it will ultimately benefit himself, usually ends up paying for some "give-away" program that was generated to buy votes from some special interests , minority groups or ethnic persuasions.  Social Security is failing more every day but Welfare programs keep growing and growing.  Welfare recipients are now in the 4th, 5th and 6th generation and there is nothing that is on-tap to create a reason to end it.  Liberals will say it is because there are no jobs for these people to get employment.  I say that's BS.  How can illegal immigrants stay employed when dead-beat American citizens spend their days sitting on their arses waiting for their monthly check?  I am not against government programs that are available to assist people when they are in need of help but no government program should create a lifestyle. 

I honestly believe that the one way to make a mediocre President into a great President is to enact the "Line Item Veto" law.  It is the only way that money can be directed to projects where it was intended and not doled out to congress' special vote buying give-aways.

The Federal Government should have NO PART in the Free Market.  Financial or otherwise.....even if it means economic collapse.  Federal Government should not regulate how much money/bonuses a CEO makes.  If someone breaks a law, nail em, but other than that, just SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!  Go EXXON, make the big bucks!!!!

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

I'm a little fuzzy on the details but the left has more reason to hate Exxon that just the Valdez accident and being BIG OIL.  I was looking at a Greenpeace site (I think it was Greenpeace UK) and saw that Exxon has (at least in the past) financed efforts to disprove claims related to global warming and had some connection to the guy who does the "Junkscience" column on Fox news.  Greenpeace didn't  like that, I guess because it interfered with their account on climate change. 

 If the stockholders do not like what the CEO is getting they vote him out.

This statement is so much BS even farmhands wretch when they here it. Shareholders, by and large, are bundled up with many others and represented by whoever is watching their investments. Believe me, if you or anyone else showed up ata shareholder meeting to compalin about the thefts carried out by these board of directors and upper management they would be ejected quite focefully. Just look what the crooks at Lehman pulled off. No, FTD you are as untrustworthy with your "analysis" as you are on other issues you have not been truthful on. Munsey, while amusing at times with his rah rah faux patriotism, is not really taken seriously as he has the depth of a shadow at midnight.

OGV, you need to get that thorn out of your rear end sit down and have a beer. If that’s what you believe about stockholder meetings you are naturally entitled to your view, and I’m sure the board of CSX agrees with you. Oh wait they just had that nasty stockholders meeting and things aren’t quite as you paint it. When people get fed-up with the way things are going they can change the board and CEO.
I guess I’m untruthful because I don’t agree with you, I guess you just forgot to list examples. It’s a cheap trick to accuse someone of something with no proof, but that’s ok it won’t be the first time people on these blogs use cheap tricks to try to win arguments.

FelixKulpah- One of the founders of Greenpeace has switched sides and has made speeches against man made global warming. This may be what you saw.

Smunsey & Walt I don’t know if you have seen the add on TV yet but, our government is now giving out free cell phones and free minutes (ok not free your money) to qualified people. Go to this web sit for the info, and then have a good stiff drink. Safelinkwireless.com
 

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.

I guess I’m untruthful because I don’t agree with you.

I did not say untruthful. I said untrustworthy in that your reasoning is faulty so you get a wrong conclusion. You pulled the same BS with your smear tactics against Lily on the Fair Tax. Always attack, never  refuting statements.

As for CSX, it wasn't a bunch of small shareholders, it was one large conglomerate with more shares than CSX liked. You are once again wrong. And after talking with people like you, yeah, I do need a beer. I need to wash away the dullness of the answers you drool out. You takin lessons from Byron or teaching him?

OGV,
you have not been truthful
Untruthful , not been truthful could you explain the difference? These are your words
I never said one stockholder could vote out a CEO or board, it takes a lot just like an election, do you not understand that, or has that warm beer fouled your mind?
Smear tactics with Lily. You mean telling people to read the book for themselves, go to the meetings, or do the research on their own is smearing Lily? I really don’t want to go back there as I think Lily and all concerned would just as soon not bring it back up if people can’t be civil.
By the way who is Byron, and if he is jerking your chain he doesn’t need lessons from me.
OGV you need to get your blood pressure down as when it is up you slip out of your redneck backwoods, beer drinking persona, and start writing like someone else.
 

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.

you have not been truthful
Untruthful , not been truthful could you explain the difference?

Weeelll, I see you really do not comprehend the written word too good there Hoss. If you go back you'll see that I said your analysis of the issue was untrustworthy. I then linked a second thought regarding you untruthfulness on a completely different subject. I also note you have slithered back under your rock. I doubt youll see this but I cant let no lyin fairtaxer get away with anything. You lied your butt off above, you did more than suggest someone read a book and you know it. It waas all namecalling on you and THs part. You never once attemtpted to refute any point.

I would like to know yer problem with wrieting like someone else when my "blood pressure is up". Since you don't like my style I would think you'd apprve of writing liek someone else. You people are very unhappy and i don't have a clue to what would change that.

Whatever, I will join Solo in scrolling past yer asinine remarks. Goodbye.

OGV

I also note you have slithered back under your rock

Odd that you would say that as it took you over 24 hours to post a reply. Must have been that hangover from the warm beer, does it every time. I see that you have got your writing style back, but it does appear that you have finally come out. It’s too bad as I kind of liked reading some of your post, not all but some. Now you kind of remind me of someone from the past, and who could that be? I know why don’t we play a game and see if anyone can get the right answer.
1. Bitter person
2. Liberal
3 .Likes to name call
4. Thinks they can spin the story / facts
5. Hates the FairTax
6. Doesn’t care for TH either
7. Always comes to Solo defense or Solo to theirs.
8 Their opinion is always right  (ok this could be a red herring as it could apply to almost  anyone)
Send your guesses in, no prizes, just for fun.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.

OGV,

Big guy, I feel it is my duty to give you some free advice.  Yes, it's from a CUBS fan so you can take it for what it's worth.  Two cents, two million bucks or two pounds of hog crap.  I just posted a reply to FTD, in my previous blog, "Oh, By The way..The fine print."  saying that I will not bother to reply to him/her again.  It's just not worth it & I gave my reasons why. 

I looked back into some of his/her replies to justify my reasoning, & it seems to be sound.  It's a waste of time & effort.  All I ask is that you think about it.  Breathe deeply.  Very important. Take a minute.  Have a brew.  Be the ball.  Get your mind right.  OK.  DECIDE.  JATFUR.

Rich K

Hey, Solo, no worries fella. I do find it funny that the goofball in question now thinks i ama woman. Go figure. Thankfully, you and Finder can vouch for my gender. Either that or this old "woman" has a terrible need for a shave. Well, he also thinks I'm a liberal. Strike 2. And why do these folks want a 37% sales tax on everything under the sun? I don't getthatat all.

I know having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent is not fair play. I will follow yer example and ignore him/her. I do think that he/she and others like it may cause the shut down of this great site. Gloriosky! What will they vent on? Their spouses? But it's possible given the recent announcement and price hike.

I also like to give you my condolences. I know there is a lot to say for tradition but i really thought the Cubs were going to be champions this year. Well, onto next year. Time fer a beer! See you at the next political mud wrestling event.

OGV,

On the CUBS.  Two years in a row getting blown out.  I've been reading some things in the Chicago Sun Times & the Chicago Tribune that show there are some very unhappy CUBS fans.  I'm wondering what the lead up to opening day will show.  We shall see.

As for FTD, I just read a reply from him/her in the blog @ fine print.  I'm not sure what to say @ him/her.  I guess I'll follow the dictum.  If you don't have anything nice to say about a person, don't say anything.

On a note closer to home, if he has never met or seen you, I can understand his lack of knowlege concerning your gender.  That's common.  Sometimes it's easy guessing going only by the blog, sometimes not.  Yes Finder & I can vouch that you're a male.  Good golly miss Molly.  I hope that there aren't any females out there that look like you.  Or Finder, or me. What a revoltin' development that would be.  Have a great weekend & watch out for the rain.  JATFUR.

Rich K