The 120 Pound Gorilla In The Room

I would hope that the religious right would see this as an instance of the Palin family not only walking the walk but talking the talk.  Just as Gov. Palan did when she made the decision not to abort a child that she knew  would be disadvantaged.

This is a problem that many families deal with, and I think the way it is being handled by the Palin family is a good example to others going through a similar family crisis.

That said, I do feel sorry that the young lady has to endure his situation being discussed on the national news as well as her name being dragged through the mud of the Internet. 

Annas Grammie,

It seems that you are new to the blogohood, so allow me to welcome you. 

Yes, in one manner, it is an unfortunate situation.  I've been listening to the radio & it seems that Palin, in general, & her daughter's pregnancy, in particular, lead the news stories.  I think the flash & sparkle will soon subside & the business of politics will rightfully take  stage, front & center.

Yes, Bristol made a mistake.  Shame on her for being human.  But this will pass.  As I said, she seems to have good family support & that is a huge plus.  The Governor, just as with the rest of us is human.  They have problems as we have problems.  I only hope that the "National Enquirer," mentality does not take over.  Once again, welcome to the blogohood.  Enjoy.  JATFUR.

Rich K

Thanks Rick K for the blog. I agree with you and both of the candidates that came out front and said clearly people's families have no place in politics.

I agree with your statement. "Because no matter how hard we try, we will still have a certain number of brain dead, bottom feeding knuckle draggers who seem to think this has something to do with politics."

Another drive by inking by some in the media.

Angela,

Thanks for the input.  I thought it apropriate for the topic of the day.  But.......

Let me make this perfectly clear & let me say this, about that.  For the benefit of the tabloid press, the bottom feeders of you tube, face book, and publications of that disreputable kind, I am NOT the father of Bristol's baby.  I say this with all honesty & humility. 

By way of example, if it were true, you & all the rest of the honorable blogeratti, along with the rest of the good citizens of the Orange Park, Middleburg & the Green Cove Springs area would be finding themselves sitting on the floors, flat on their respective arses, in their respective humble abodes, resulting from the thundrous & swift application of my wife's, my godesses, boot upon my butt. And dat's da name of dat tune.  JATFUR.

Rich K

I've been listening to and reading the mass media's parade of analysts, from pundits telling me how it will affect the election to psychologists explaining the emotional trauma and necessary family support for poor Bristol to overcome her mistake to members of the Religious Right explaining why it should disqualify Palin, and McCain if necessary, from office.  Heck, Rich, even you say it's a mistake.

First of all, I don't think that's a statement we can or should even try to make.  Second, even if we do somehow get that responsibility, why don't we wait about 25 years before making it?  If the kid's on Death Row, we'll call it a mistake.  If it's bringing home eight gold medals and the Nobel Prize, we can all buy our copy of "Great Parenting by Bristol."

Bristol Palin is certainly not the first nor anywhere near the last high school senior to get pregnant.  There are some problems attendant with beginning a family at that stage of life and I would never, ever recommend it is a plan of action, but effectively raising a child in such circumstances is nowhere near an impossible task.  Many, many young mothers are excellent parents.  In this case, Bristol's the one who will be most responsible for for determining if this is, ultimately, a mistake or a blessing.  And even she can't make that judgment yet.

Now that we've gotten all the candidates to admit this personal situation has nothing to do with the election for president, I wish we could get the newspapers, radio stations and 24-hour cable news to follow suit.

In fact, I'd like to limit cable news to covering the candidate's speeches, followed by a 10-minute recap and an announcement of when I can listen to the candidates again.  Don't waste my time listening to people espouse ignorant partisan or religious political analysis and tell me what else is going on with the world.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

I agree with you all.  It would be nice if families could be left out and their personal lives left alone especially children.  But we know that is not the case especially when they reach the age of near adulthood as this young lady has.

At this point I think it is important that Republican don’t come across as hypocritical on this issue.  We should not be painting this as a wonderful thing and giving her Kudos and Slaps on the Back.  Doing that makes us look like a bunch of hypocrites. 

 "The rate of teen births fell to 40.4 births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 19. That's the lowest rate ever recorded in 65 years for which we have consistent data in 2005. The fact is that most teenage girls keep their babies. Teen abortions have dropped nearly 75 percent since 1990, falling to an estimated 460 in 2006, the most recent year available - a drop that accounted for about 40 percent of the overall decline.   

While I don’t think she should be stoned or disowned.  I think it is very important that as a party (Rep), would come down Hard and Heavy if this happen in the other Party (Dem).  We need to stop acting as if this teen is carrying the son of God and this was an Immaculate Conception.  The fact is she is indeed different than all of the other teenage girls who have children before they finish high school.  She is doing it in full view of every family, every teen age girl and everyone in the United States.  

I am not saying Sarah Palin should be pulled from the ticket what I am saying is let’s not be hypocrites about this. It is better that we say nothing than try to spin this as a wonderfully positive thing.  All children and a gift from God, yeah I got that. But children born outside of the sacrament of marriage is not a Republican Core Value.  Should she abort the baby absolutely not, murder is not one of our values either.  We just need to refrain from the tickertape parade in her honor.

 Judith Chapple

A young girl who becomes pregnant before she is fully grown herself can cause physical complications, but in todays world with adequate prenatal care those cases are rare.  A couple of hundred years ago it was not uncommon for young girls to marry at an age that we all now consider in most cases to be unwise.  So, at 17, yes she's young and while I'm sure this is not what her Mother wanted for her the reality is here.

The stigma of an unwed Mother, an unwed teenage Mother is still alive and well unfortunately. Personally I've known a couple of teenage unwed Mothers who were a better parent then a married woman twice her age.  I sometimes see girls who look so young, that are pregnant that I can't help but be caught off guard but then I remember that I cannot predict the future so I don't judge.

I'm a registered Republican, but I don't do what the party wants me to do because I prefer thinking for myself. I also don't get my core values from a political party. They were taught to me at home growing up, and in Church.  They are my own, personal to me.

I understand what you're saying Ms Chapple but in the way you spoke about how the "Republicans" should treat this does that not conflict with statements you made a few weeks ago about the "group think"?  To me hypocrisy is doing something other then what you're thinking or believe in.  If you feel a need to commend this girl for not killing her baby and wish to uplift her so that she will not feel ashamed of being human and you don't because you're a Republican and this kinda thing is against "core values" is that not hypocrisy?

What's done is done, a new life is on the way and it is wanted.  If the girl decides to get married I wish her well.  If she chooses to not marry the Father because she doesn't love him or whatever reason I say more power to her. Better a happy home with one parent then a two parent home filled with anger and resentment.

Yes of course, in a perfect world people would be virgins when they got married but that is the exception more then it is the rule.  In a perfect world babies would be born to happy homes with a Husband and a Wife......but this is not the reality. 

The law recognizes the girl is at an age of consent in most places, I do not hold her Mother responsible for the fact that she is pregnant. At 17 she is old enough to take responsibility for her own choices.

It's been proven a womans frame of mind when she is with child has an impact on that child.  I believe the only right thing to do as a human being is to wish her well and leave her out of the politics, she's not running for VP. 

http://www.ctlac.com/

Let me preface this by saying that this is only my opinion.  I don’t have any proof to offer to justify what I say. 

I read a lot of what is being said about Bristol Palin and some people mention that she made a mistake and that it’s okay to be human.  Most of the people who say these words are old geezers like I am and we were raised in a different time with different values.  We grew up in the pre-abortion era when unwed mothering was a stigma but so was being the product of a broken home.  One piece bathing suits outnumbered bikinis and wearing something like a thong would send you straight to hell.  We’ve come a long way since the days of June Cleaver. 

The young people of today don’t view marriage in the same way that we older people do.  Chances are most kids don’t only have a father but possibly a step-father or two.  Marriage is merely a trial period for some couples and if it doesn’t work, throw in the towel and move on to another.  It’s an oddity if marriages last longer than 10 years.  To me, the tragedy in Bristal Palin’s situation would be for her to marry the young man just to satisfy the narrow minds of the voting public.  Hopefully she marries a man that cares for her and the newborn child and is able to share a life as a happy family. 

It’s a shame when someone mentions that a young lady is pregnant and then adds that it’s great that she has decided to keep the baby.  What kind of statement is that?  Isn’t it funny that more people get irate talking about how CCAC euthanizes stray animals than they do talking about abortions? 

In case anyone cares, I’m a Republican but I believe in pro-choice.  I would rather see an aborted fetus than to have it raised as an unwanted, uncared for child whose parent(s) has no love to share.

for your sentiments expressed in the last paragraph.  

Mike Heemer

I do not see anyone of either party  acting as if this teen is carrying the son of God and this was an Immaculate Conception or saying this is a wonderful, positive thing and giving her a ticker tape parade.  The fact is, Republican or Democrat, this happens in the best of homes.  I think her parents are handling it as any responsible parent should by supporting her and encouraging her decision to keep this baby.

Of course this is just my opinion as well.

In my view, the Palins are handling this probably the best way they can- no matter what the decision were to be, there are people that will try to incoporate it into Sarah Palins ability to be VP.

This is a family situation involving their daughter-which Marsha mentioned above is old enough to have accountability for her decisions. What I don't know about is her marrying the father- if it is what they both want, then fine, but to marry only because of the baby may be a mistake.

I am sure I will hear it from some of you for that last statement, but I am not of the opinion that it is better for a baby to grow up in a miserable environment with both parents than a happy environment with one.

Mike, Judith, Marsha, Walt &, of course, Mike H,

You guys are way to nice, way to borrrringgg.  How dare you assault your fellow blogeratti with unubashed common sense & common decency?  Have you no shame?  Have you no gutter minds?  Have none of you ever even watched a Jerry Springer Show or listened to Rush to see how a topic like this should be covered?  Once again, shame, shame, shame.

Actually, I too, will hope that this topic drops off the radar in a quick manner.  I think it will.  In the past few days, I've been reading a story here & a story there @ Sarah & some of her questionable political shenanigans prior to being picked, a topic in & of itself.  McCain is being slowly roasted over Palin's vetting process.  Rest assured, whether it will be the press or someone from the Democratic side, we'll see more in the way of the foibles of Gov. Palin.  Judging by the little I've seen, she's not quite the white knight (knightette?) she has been made out to be.  As others have said before me, it will be an interesting process.  JATFUR.

Rich K

You said

"It’s a shame when someone mentions that a young lady is pregnant and then adds that it’s great that she has decided to keep the baby.  What kind of statement is that?  Isn’t it funny that more people get irate talking about how CCAC euthanizes stray animals than they do talking about abortions?"

I don't know if that was directed at me or not and I would like to clear that up.  I don't understand where the "shame" is in recognizing that the girl DOES have a choice and chose to keep the child and finding some admiration in it.

For me the "choice" is given to each and every woman by the Creator.  I am against the death penalty and I am "pro life".  That does not mean I wish to take that choice away from the individual.  Do I want to see it become illegal to have an abortion, no.  As we have seen through the existence of mankind there will always be women aborting their babies whether it's in a clean enviroment by qualified professionals or in a dark alley with a coat hanger.  I have no wish to force a woman to the dark alley. I surely wish there were something I could do to keep my tax dollars from funding such things in SOME cases but that is unrealistic. 

The larger picture of what I was trying to get to was that I thought it wrong to withold anything positive or uplifting for or to this girl, or even against her based upon party platform. 

One of my "core values" is to try, note that I said try to find what is good in a situation, to look for the blessing, the silver lining, the lesson to be learned and to do so with a loving and forgiving heart.  Simply put I have nothing negative to say or feel regarding this situation, there is nothing to gain by judging the Mother nor the Daughter. 

However note the inequities that still exist in this world, how much information has been given about this babys Father and/or his family?  It is ALWAYS the female that takes the heat.  The choice for men is easy, the choice either way for a female isn't most of the time.  If the candidate had a son who'd fathered a child odds are we would never even hear about that.

The one reason I think you may not have been referring to my statement is your reference to CCAC and people being more irrate over destroyed animals then abortion.  I don't participate in discussions regarding CCAC and haven't for a very long time for obvious reasons.  You appear to be too sharp to have overlooked that reality.

Marsha, please don’t think I was directing anything at you.  I was just saying a general statement.  As I said, I am Pro-Choice.  It would be wonderful if every conceived child was brought to full term and lived its life in a loving, nurturing family.  Unfortunately, abortion has become an easy alternative for women and MEN. 

How many times have you listened to a conversation and someone said, “Did you hear about Peggy Sue?  She’s pregnant!!”  The next statement is often, “Is she going to keep the baby?”  To me, that is the shameful part.  Having a child should be a commitment and the responsibilities should be recognized before performing the act of conception.  Back in my teenage years, a lot of boys went home frustrated after a date because the girl had an emphatic “No” to say when things were going too far.  Girls cherished their reputations and birth control wasn’t available.  Today, abortion is just another option if the pill doesn’t work and a condom isn’t used.  We’re living in the age of Viagra and “Girls Gone Wild” videos. 

You’re right when you say that back alleys and coat hangers used to be the only way abortions were performed back in the good ol’ days.  Nowadays, abortion clinics are clean and sterile but they are also plentiful.  Things have changed a lot from 1968 to 2008.

I will start by being up front and saying I am a republican, and I am roman catholic.

Contrary to what many may think, I do step out of the box, I do think for myself. I am pro-choice, and pro-gay rights to civil unions (mariage).

In saying that, I say who cares ?

Bristol is at the age of consent, it's her body, it's her baby, it's their life. It's none of anybodies business.

When McCain announced Palin as his VP choice the far left went into vapor lock. The DNC finished with their convention and did not get the bump in the polls they wanted, and when the announcement was made they went into full blown smear mode as soon as they caught their breath.

They are in smear mode because they are afraid. They will spin everything and do everything to discredit Gov. Palin. But they will fail and they will be doing excactly the opposite of what they are trying to do.

Tonight at 9:00 on Fox, Gov. Palin will be speaking at the republican convention. She will tell the world all they need to know about her. She will demonstrate how much of a strong leader, speaker, and reformist she has been, and she will secure about 1/3 of all the votes (6m of the 18m for Hillary) form those hoping Hillary would have been the Dem. VP. (this is my personal opinion).

The more the far left goes on the attack, and spins to discredit her, the more harm they will be doing to themselves and their parties choice.

Bottom line is this: The Republican Ticket is McCain-Palin, NOT McCain-Bristol Palin.

This of course is just my personal opinion.

TRUTHHURTS

Please go to

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

and sign the petition for the Fair Tax Bill. Tell Congress to pass this Bill.

I am going to say something that is probably going to make some of you very angry.  This is another one of those parental responsibility moments that I spoke of when we were discussing the Michael Taylor issue.  I know that the parents cannot be with their children 24/7.  But, they should have been a little more proactive to guard against pregnancy.  I would suggest the use of the injections, Depo-Provera; here's how it works; when you use Depo-Provera, you don't ovulate—it stops the release of eggs from your ovaries. That way, there's no egg present for sperm to fertilize, if you do miss a shot or more than 13 weeks go by, you'll need to protect yourself with an alternative birth control method.

In today’s world pregnancy is the least of the worries that premarital sex brings.  Sexual transmitted disease like HIV/AIDS being the worse of them all.

A child having a child is also one of the reasons cited for the increase in the crime rate, the breakdown of the family unit and the burden on country’s economy.  

Now please understand that I am not attributing any of this to this young lady. I am sure her family will provide her with all of the emotional and financial support needed, but that is not the case for the many other young girls who will find themselves in the same situation.  It is that reason that I say we have to be careful not to attempt to spin this as boon for anyone.  It is also evident how very young and foolish the young man is, on the Today show they revealed his My Space page which filled with expletives indicated  that he did not want a baby. The page has since been pulled.    

 Judith Chapple

Judith,

You shouldn't be afraid of making anyone angry.  There will always be people who claim to offended, hurt, insulted or angry.  If you wanted to take the feelings of everyone into consideration, nothing would be said.

I know next to nothing @ Depo-Provera.  But I would think that there would be some legal/ constitutional issues to be addressed.  I apologise for my lack of knowlege & once again, I'll be all too happy to learn from my fellow blogeratti.

On the lighter side, please, always remember & don't ever forget.  Procrastinate today!  Don't put it off till tomorrow.  JATFUR.

Rich K

I know that I am probably stepping in a big pile of "you know what" by making this statement but,

I disagree with the statement that Mrs. Chapple just made in her blog.....now keep in=mind that I am not a college educated person. I have just been educated by life...

 "A child having a child is also one of the reasons cited for the increase in the crime rate, the breakdown of the family unit and the burden on country’s economy."  

This is a VERY broad statement to make. I would like to know where you got this information.

I am the oldest of five children and my mother was 17 when I was born (and NO my parents were not married when I was born) . My parents are still married and are pillars in their community. ALL of my brothers and My sister are also parents, as am I, and we are all successful in our chosen professions, our family lives and are active in our communities.

None of my brothers or my sister had a "bought and paid for childhood" and we got by on just the necessities of life as we were growing up. None of us have had issues with having a criminal history, heck none of us have ever been arrested.

I would even venture to say that this is not an unusual outcome in todays families that had a start as mine did.

Not to interject religion as a "cure-all" but I would make a guess to say that LACK of a spiritual relationship with god would be a catalist to the breakdown of the family unit.    Crime is going to be a direct cause of a poor economy and the crime rate is controled by the criminals.                               

The bottom line is that no one can lay-down a prediction on anyone elses future based on "perceived mistakes" espically when those making the predictions are on the "outside looking in" 

Joe,

Don't bother to apologise for not finishing college.  Neither did I nor many people in this world.  But all too many of us have shown to have wisdom of years & experience at the very least equal to acredited courses.

In one respect, you are correct in that Judith's claim is broad.  Many statements are & some can be confirmed by various studies.  There are also many studies to contradict.  Such is life.  We'll have to wait & see what Judith provides.

I would take exception to your statement that, "LACK of a spiritual relationship with god would be a catalist to the breakdown of the family unit."  If that were true, how would you explain the thriving family units before a god or gods were invented by man.  Long before that happened, people exhibited morals, ethics, feelings of sympathy & empathy with their fellow man.  I'm not saying that there were not people who were without morals or ethics.  There were.  But others lived, thrived, survived, raised families & taught the lessons learned to their children, without the questionable benefits of a god, gods, or religion.

In case you're wondering, I am an advocate that there is not one shred of evidence that a god created man, but there are mountains of evidence that man created gods.

I was raised Catholic but after the control of religious teaching, after Catholic grade school & Catholic high school, I did the unthinkable.  I began to question, to think, to doubt & to study & to learn.  Not exactly the kind of thing an organized religion wants its adherents to do.  It's quite dangerous to their coffers.

Whether you are talking about family units, morals or ethics, it simplistically breaks down to two things.  Education & asking yourself, "Would I want the action I propose to do, done to me?"  As I said, it's simplistic.  But it works.  And religion need not enter the equation.  It's superfluous to the decision making process.  Religion or spirituality not only is not needed, but in my opinion, can be detrimental to the decision making process.  On the other hand, there are four fingers & a thumb.  We should all use them wisely.

Hope this other view did not put a twist or a knot in your knickers.  Sometimes, one just has to stir the pot.  And in the interest of full disclosure, no political candidates for president or vice president or members of their families were harmed during the formation of this reply.  JATFUR.

Rich K

Judith W. Chapple;

I'm glad to see that you espouse something other than 'abstinence only' as a method of birth control. Too bad we can't get the school system and others behind that idea.

Most think that if you teach things other than abstinence only that you are giving them permission to have sex.

As you said though, DP or the pill will not protect against STDs. Yet the mere mention of providing condoms to help stem the spread of them can send many religious leaders into apoplexy. 

I'm a little confused about a couple of your statements that seem to me to be at odds with each other, or at least don't quite fit together.

In one post you say that: A child having a child is also one of the reasons cited for the increase in the crime rate, the breakdown of the family unit and the burden on country’s economy.

But in a previous post you stated: Should she abort the baby absolutely not, murder is not one of our values either.

In the long run would it not be better for all concerned if abortion were an option that was covered by employee health benefits? Even if those benefits were provided by government employers? 

Mike Heemer

SoloVoce:

Here is a little info on Depo.  It is a widely used contraceptive.  I used it for my two daughters before I sent them off to college.  Though they both promised that they wanted to remain pure virgins until their wedding nights I know that it only takes one night of weakness and the right guy saying the right things to alter those plans.  I chose this method because I did not trust them to take a pill every day it is too easy to forget them.   My husband and I have also had the same conversation with our now 25 year old son advising him to wait until marriage.  But if he can’t wait be careful of procreation and disease. Well I can tell you that we have no grandchildren and no STDs and they are 23 and 25. 

  What is the 3-month Depo-Provera shot?

Depo Provera (also known as DMPA or Depot Medroxyprogesterone Acetate) is a hormone injection that lasts for 3 months to prevent pregnancy. The injection contains synthetic progesterone and no estrogen. It is usually given in the arm, hip, upper thigh, or abdomen, delivering a high level of progesterone into the body. Depo Provera stops the ovaries from releasing eggs. Depo Provera causes the cervical mucus to thicken and changes the uterine lining, making it harder for sperm to enter or survive in the uterus. These changes prevent fertilization. Depo Provera is a very private form of birth control because it cannot be seen on the body and requires no home supplies. It does, however, require a clinic appointment every 3 months.

Depo Provera is 97-99.7% effective as birth control. It does not protect against reproductive tract infections, including HIV/AIDS. There are some serious health risks with Depo Provera, so be sure to get all the facts in advance.

 Judith Chapple

Solo, I love your responses on these blogs...

I guess I made the statement about god and the infulence of religion on a family unit because early in my childhood my father became a Pentecostal preacher, and still is to this day. I am not what anyone would call a "bible-thumper" however, I guess I am a little "prejudice" to this side of the issue simply because of how I was raised.

I do AGREE with you that good morals and good ethics would be the center of a good family unit..One of the things that we have to be careful about though is our definition of the "family unit"..I know that it is understood to be a traditional "family" there must be a Father, Mother, and the kids...However in todays world that definition does not always fit the situition...For a few years I was a single father and had (and still do have) custody of 2 boys. I consider that at at that time we were a "family" and my boys are now upstanding young men. I agree that without a "mother figure" in their life was not a great thing, but I fixed that...

Judith,

Thanks for the info on DP.  But I'm still in the dark on the legalities, especially if the person getting DP is under the legal age.  If you have any info on this, I'd be interested in it.  If not, I'll use the tried & true method of "doing the google," as fearless leader might say.

Once again, thanks.

Rich K

One thing that does not make any sense to me about one of the coments that Mrs. Chapple made (see #1) is that if what she said is true how can comment (#2) be also true???????

#1) "The rate of teen births fell to 40.4 births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 19. That's the lowest rate ever recorded in 65 years for which we have consistent data in 2005. The fact is that most teenage girls keep their babies. Teen abortions have dropped nearly 75 percent since 1990, falling to an estimated 460 in 2006, the most recent year available - a drop that accounted for about 40 percent of the overall decline"

#2)"A child having a child is also one of the reasons cited for the increase in the crime rate, the breakdown of the family unit and the burden on country’s economy."  

As it appears that she has no further comments to make on this issue, so can someone else clue me in?

SoloVoce: 

Currently, no state or federal laws require minors to get parental consent in order to get contraception. Increasingly, however, proposals are being introduced to restrict teens’ access to reproductive health care by calling for parental consent or notification.

Examples of Minors Who Would Face Harm
Teens in a variety of circumstances would be affected if required to obtain parental consent for contraception:

• A young woman seeking contraception from a clinic—birth control pills, DepoProvera, diaphragm—would be forced to obtain parental permission
• A minor who buys condoms at a pharmacy could be turned away without parental consent
• A teen who seeks emergency contraception because of forced or unanticipated intercourse would need approval, even though emergency contraception must be used within 72 hours of unprotected intercourse.
• On the contrast a parent can consent to put their minor child on birth control in the US.

 Judith Chapple

joeriley08I will explain these comments:

 #1) "The rate of teen births fell to 40.4 births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 19. That's the lowest rate ever recorded in 65 years for which we have consistent data in 2005. The fact is that most teenage girls keep their babies. Teen abortions have dropped nearly 75 percent since 1990, falling to an estimated 460 in 2006, the most recent year available - a drop that accounted for about 40 percent of the overall decline"

As I have listened to talk radio since the announcement was made I have been hearing comments about how she should be commended for keeping the baby.  This comment was directed at the notion that she was unique to any other teenage girl who finds themselves in this position, because as I stated most of them keep their babies. And the abortion rate among teens has dropped.

 #2)"A child having a child is also one of the reasons cited for the increase in the crime rate, the breakdown of the family unit and the burden on country’s economy."  

These statistics comes from the fact that very young parents are not finished growing up themselves, and therefore they cannot provide the parenting, discipline and structure children need.  As a result these children often seek attention from the streets, which often lead to drugs and crime.   

The burden to the country’s economy comes in the way of, Welfare, Reduced Housing, Food Stamps, WIC nutrition program, Medicaid etc.

Again, I am not attributing any of this to Bristol Palin because I am sure she will get all she needs from her family.  But she is the exception not the rule so I am cautious how I respond about this situation.  It is like watching a PG13 movie with your kids.  They can watch it but there may be some things you have need to explain during the movie.

 Judith Chapple

Mr. Heemer:I hear what you are saying but I do not condone abortion as a means of birth control.  Nor do I believe in a baby being raised by a family where it is unwanted or unloved.  This is when I think the child should be put up for adoption. Controlling unwanted pregnancies is too easy in 2008; teenagers don’t even have to have parental consent for birth control. For Rape cases there is The Morning After Pill.  But after conception I have a personal issue with abortion.  Now if you want a big laugh.  I adore the Death Penalty!  I could actually be the person to flip the switch.  If the person who murdered my daughter gets the death penalty, I could very easily put two bullets in the back of his head just like he did her!  I would even give him a chance to pray which is time I am sure he did not give her. So we will agree to disagree on this one also.  But thanks for not calling me any names this time.

Judith Chapple

That makes perfectly good sense to me. Abortion and the death penalty are two different things. Thou shalt not kill in reality is closer to Thou shalt not murder than 'kill'.

I don't advocate abortion as a means of 'birth control' but as a choice a woman should have if she becomes pregnant. A fine line I guess but I do put a difference in the two.

I agree about adoption. I think it would certainly be a better option than abortion in many cases but we don't have the infrastructure to handle that. We have adoption laws that are so archaic and restrictive that thousands of couples go overseas to adopt children.

Why would we force them to do that when there are untold thousands of children in foster care that need loving families?

I'm not sure we actually disagree on much on this one. I think it is more a matter of perspective. If there are less restrictive abortion laws then there are going to be few that think it is OK to abort just because they were too lazy or irresponsible to take precautions. But I think the vast majority would be of the type that would seek one as a last resort.

I'll throw in one extra. I think when abortion laws/rules come up for a vote that every man should recuse himself. He was standing in the wrong line when the birthing equipment was issued.

Mike Heemer

Thanks for the explanation. I guess that I took your statements too literally..

My "common sense" tells me that if the rate of teen births is down by approximately 40% then crime should have gone down also...not up..that is if you attribute a rise in crime with children having children....

Like I said I was looking at things too literally....

Joe

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I doubt very much that a 17 year old did not realize the risk involved with her actions.  I also doubt very much that Mr. and Mrs. Palin did not educate their daughter about the risks. 

Just because society views a 17 year old as a child or kid doesn't make that 17 year old realize that she really still is just a kid.

In today's society, parents and educators emphasize to children the importance of adulthood.  Many children believe that parenthood is the number one way to become an adult, but they either choose to ignore or just don't realize that parenthood = sacrificing their own wants for their dependants.  Heck, there are plenty of "adults" that aren't willing to make the necessary sacrifices.

I'm sure that financially this baby will be secure.  We can only hope that the teen-aged parents are willing to make sacrifices to allow their child to be a child.

Mr. and Mrs. (soon to be vice-president) Palin are not at fault here.  The 17 year old made a decision and now she has to face responsibility.

I also agree that she should not marry to please society and it is better to live peacefully with just one parent than to live in fear with two parents.

Please go to:

http://spayusa.org/media/pdfs/Cats_Multiply_Pyramid.pdf

http://spayusa.org/media/pdfs/Dogs_Multiply_Pyramid.pdf