Clarify Outer Tollway property tax issueFirst of all, hats off to Mike Heemer for his well-reasoned analysis of the likely actual effect of the Outer Tollway. One detail deserves clarification and further analysis - the property tax exemption issue. Mike noted that we (local government) would forego property tax on the land and road for 3-5 years and then in theory hope to make up for that via the increased development the tollway would induce. Actually, the proposed exemption is much more enduring than the mere 3-5 years of Tollway construction. FDOT wants, but lacks statutory authority to offer the Public-Private-Partner (PPP) an exemption from paying property tax for the life of the toll concession. That is expected to be 60-75 years. The total value of such an exemption is expected to be hundreds of millions of dollars, per a Times Union article detailing the reasons behind the current hold on the Tollway project. In other words, FDOT wants the next legislative session in Tallahassee to pass a law requiring local governments to forego property taxes on the Tollway and its underlying lands for the entire 60-75 year life of the toll concession. Why? Because, as Mike notes, the Tollway is already a massive, multi-billion dollar white elephant. Traffic and Revenue studies show it to be so unfeasible that Florida's Turnpike Enterprise (FTE), nationally recognized as an extremely efficient, progressive and competent provider of smooth, safe, high-speed roads, can't legally touch it. By longstanding statute, Turnpike projects must meet certain reasonable tests of financial feasibility so as to protect the patrons, integrity and credit rating of the Turnpike System from ill-conceived developer-inspired pork-laden roads to nowhere. FTE has taken a long look, but won't touch. Mike H identified California route 125 as an example of a tollroad gone awry. There are many more, the worst of which encumber and consume local and state government fuel, property, and sales taxes to subsidize and bail out ill-conceived toll highways. In our own backyard, Osceola County is annually on the hook for millions in hard-earned gas taxes to bail out the sparsely-traveled Osceola Parkway. Further afield, the Southern Connector in South Carolina, the Pocahontas Parkway in Virginia, and the Northwest Parkway near Denver have all fallen so short of predicted traffic and revenue so as to either be in imminent danger of default or require hundreds of millions in bailouts or private takeovers with subsequent huge toll increases. Citizens in and near Knoxville, Tennessee recently so vehemently opposed tolls on the proposed Knoxville Parkway, similar to our Outer Tollway, that TNDOT gave up on tolls But, there's worse, much worse: The Crown Jewel of SNAFUs now is Massachusetts' Big Dig: this decades-long project is so mired in cost overruns and construction foulups that the Massachusetts Turnpike, a hapless participant, is looking to be bailed out to the tune of billions by the "full faith and credit" of the state government. "full faith and credit" is financially equivalent to (and a codeword for) "taxpayer bailout" Do we want this here? The numbers of dollars are truly mind-boggling: For comparison note that our commissioners recently authorized a bond issue of approximately $100 million for major improvements in the CR 209 corridor. That decision was carefully arrived at with the well-reasoned expectation of early and substantial improvements in traffic congestion, flow and safety throughout the entire mid-county area. Yet for the Outer Tollway we are expected to blindly accept the expenditure of 20 times that $100 million ($2 Billion), mortgaging the tax and transportation futures of ourselves, our children, and our grandchildren (60-75 year toll concession; hundreds of millions in foregone property tax revenue) in the blind hope that we can somehow attract something other than thousands more school, fire, and police-needing houses whose drivers will choke our local roads in order to avoid paying $3-10 per day on Outer Tollway tolls. This emperor has no clothes - eventually everyone will notice! Related: Engineer's blog | login or register to post comments | printer friendly version | Tags: FDOT | Outer Beltway | Tollway
Submitted by Angela on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 9:33am.
The Outer Tollway reminds me of the "Bridge to Nowhere". And the Representative that also came up with the idea to fund the "Road to Nowhere" in Florida. If the tollway cost an average family 10.00 per day and you drove the road each day that would be 300.00 per month to use a road. If you did that 12 months a year it would cost 3600.00 per year to use a road. If you had a family that has 2 who worked and use the road that could add up to 7200.00 per year. And they complain about impact fees which you only collect them 1 time. This fee to use a road with never stop. I wonder how many families are willing to take a tax increase of 3600.00 or 7200.00 per year to use a road. Not I. Thanks Mike Heemer for your position. http://watchingwashington.blogspot.com/2007/06/coconut-road-alaska.html
Submitted by finder on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:14pm.
Engineer; Thanks for the additional information. I think. After looking at the numbers and seeing that it was only going to generate 74% of costs in year 22 I was wondering why the state was continuing with this project. Now I know. I did not realize the FTE had washed their hands of this project. One would think that would have given our Commissioners a hint that things were getting a little smelly. Darn, I felt a lot better before I heard that part. I can see why they didn't put this up for a vote. There is no way that the voters would have chosen the 'pink' route. I just can't imagine what they were thinking when they threw their support behind this. Someone had to be asleep at some of the meetings to have brought this train wreck back with a recommendation of support. Either that or they needed some schooling in fiscal responsibility and risk assessment. A beltway built by the state that preserves the free Shands Bridge I can understand. A tollway that is going to bankrupt us when it fails is beyond my comprehension. FDOT, MPO and a slew of others sure aren't telling the whole story are they? They may not tell you an outright lie but they sure aren't above leaving out some critical information so that the people of this County know exactly what is going on. Perhaps Marsha's idea of a PAC to try to stop this abomination is not a bad idea. Of course if the BoCC would come out with a negative recommendation that would go a long way in stopping it. But I just don't see that happening unless we get some people in there that aren't enamored with the idea that rooftops are a solid economic foundation and that flipping a BK Whopper is a good job. Mike Heemer Submitted by Engineer on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:53pm.
FTE will continue to have a limited role - they'll cheer from the sidelines, assist with further traffic and revenue studies, and likely supply and / or manage toll collection via their SunPass transponder system. From FDOT's point of view the tollway is a huge plus - they get all the satisfaction of a huge new expressway built with someone else's money. It gets them off the hook with both Brannan Field and the Shands Bridge. As long as the tollway is under consideration they can continue to neglect and ignore both BF and the Shands and spend money on other projects (mostly in Duval County) We have one of the oldest and narrowest bridges of the 12 or more that span the St Johns - nearly every other is newer, wider, and safer. Our reward for patiently waiting our turn is the nationally-without-precedent tolling of a previously free route. An even worse deal will be had for us all on Brannan Field - that new road is soon to get a brand new interchange at I-10, built with tens of millions of tax dollars, but for the deal to work for a private partner, much or all of that will have to get tolled. Again, I can think of no precedent anywhere for a formerly free road built with tax dollars getting tolled. FDOT is being quiet and vague about the question of tolling existing free facilities, but if cornered and questioned, they own up to it in general terms, leaving the details to be worked out with (and blamed upon) the private concessionaire. DOTs everywhere are all agog about these PPP projects. FDOT is trying to lease the Alligator Alley which presently has fairly low tolls intended just for maintenance. They want to lease it for an upfront payoff and use the money elsewhere. The lessor will then raise tolls steeply, and keep raising them. FDOT gets the money but avoids the heat for raising tolls. Oddly enough, this idea isn't going over really well down south. FCMPO - the regional planning body, claims the tollway is its "#1 priority project". That is so much hot air when you consider that FCMPO normally prioritizes projects to allocate funding. Their funding for building their "#1 priority project" ? Zero, zip, nada. It is pure pandering and political expediency for them to place the tollway at the top of their list when doing so has no actual impact on any other project, since they allocate zero construction funds. People are talking about ...Here are the recent blog postings with the most comments. |
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Engineer,
Welcome back! Each time we discuss the toll road I recall your contributions from times past and wonder if you will jump back in. I understand more then I did a year ago, I guess I need to go back and read your posts from the past, some of what you said back then went right over my head.
I just don't want the stupid thing period. We aren't taking proper care of the roads we have so why are we taking on something else that is just going to saddle the tax payer with debt for generations to come. I would say every move that's been made politically for the last decade was leading up to this beltway.
Maybe we need a new PAC, I'm ready to travel to Tallahassee for this one. One of the network news broadcasts has a series on "The Fleecing of America", this beltway is a prime example of that.
http://www.ctlac.com/