Another Sheriff's Debate?

(not that it was meant to) but I will still be voting for Beseler. I did not see anything in Taylor's blogging that makes me think he will be a better Sheriff than Sheriff Beseler. Someone on here once said, don't try to fix something that isn't broken. I think it says it all. Beseler and his staff have done a good job. Taylor's resume, to me, doesn't read any better than Beseler's resume, just different.

Not trying to be nitpicky or anything, but Taylor stated that his son was exonerated.

HE WAS NOT EXONERATED. There IS a difference between the two. And I am quite sure that Mr. Taylor knows that.

I thought there was a slight chance the man would be honest but he proved wrong.  How could he sit there and treat us all as if we are ignorant?  His answer to if Lancaster was supporting him was a complete cover up.  (I've asked all the previous sheriffs to support me.) How he will make Clay County better is to keep the promises of positions he has offered everyone!  He can't do that unless he creates more positions!  He promises everyone everything!  Then the lies about the crap about his son.  He acts like the first case was reopened but instead it was a new case.  He was not exonerated if there was enough evidence to arrest.  It was just his buddy's position to not prosecute.  And could he connect the dots for us to Shorstein?  No he wasn't willing to do that now was he?  In a round about way he did.  We are not ignorant people Mike Taylor.  Notice I did not say Mr. Taylor because you are not due that respect.  My neighbor's kids all go to Fleming Island and we've all heard about your problem children.  The facts are your children committ felonies and get away with it and you deny it.  You are a LIAR!

I felt like I missed something in his blogging somewhere. He was good at reading his resume, I'll give him that. But I felt like he danced around some of the questions. I just don't see how he would be an improvement for Clay County.

You can replay it if you feel like you missed part of it.

 I would also like to know if the cancelled debate in Fleming Island is going to be rescheduled?

Channel 4 is suppose to have a debate on August 14 with all three of them.

Re-read it. I still have the same opinion.

I've read you blogs. Did Yoda school you in diplomacy? It's very nice of you to "bless her heart" she really is troubled.

I admit that I think Sheriff Beseler has been a fantastic sheriff, and that certainly makes me suspicious of someone saying that he should be replaced.  If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

Mike Taylor's answers were not only more of the same half-truths that he has presented throughout his campaign, but now I believe that he actually wrote that letter that circulated on the blogs following the revelations about his personal judgement.  Can you believe it... he accuses the sheriff of, and criticizes him for attacking his family, and he then attacks the sheriff's family in the same paragraph.  And in the proven tradition of Mike Taylor, he then excuses it as an "example".  Wow, I didn't think even he would actually put something like that in writing.

What a slap in the face to the parents of his victims who have already taken credit for the revelations in question, and what a slap in the face to people of even average intelligence to whom it is so obvious.

I needed a laugh tonight. Thanks.

I could never understand a darn thing he was saying..

As for the latter, I do try

Mike Taylor is such a liar.  I know for a fact that Mike Taylor stored his signs in Scott Lancaster's barn at one time.  There are pictures of his supporters putting the signs in the barn that may come out now that he has lied.  If he will lie about one thing he will lie about everything. He must think we the people of Clay county are stupid.  As Mike Taylor continues to lie all his lies will get him in the end.

I hope there are pictures, I would love to see that. Oh, but I am sure he would say that those people did that without his knowledge! Just as the Jax FOP or whatever they call themselves put out those anti-Beseler fliers themselves. What did he call it? Educating the citizens of Clay County? Whatever. I think that his days are numbered. IMHO

He avoided the question about Lancaster being his supporter.  Taylor never said that Lancaster wasn't a supporter of his.  Taylor avoided the issue and said that he asked for Lancaster's vote.  He had a perfect chance to clear up an issue that will weigh heavily with voters and did not bite.  I think that says a lot...

My take from the comment about the Jacksonville Public safety officer mail out, was that he condones the material.  I already stated that I compared it to his palm card and they are identical.  When you refer to something as "educating voters" it pretty much means you think the information is true.

 Sam,

Another debate will be at HOJO's Aug. 20 at 11:30 AM. 

I've been to five this season and at this point, Taylor  should realize that he's embarrassing himself each time he speaks. Tonight was no different.

I'm going to try to make that one.

I am sitting here watching only a few of you who have always spoke your opinions against Mr. Taylor.  Everyone already knows YOUR opinions!!!!  Find something else to try and discredit.  And really people, talk about picking on someone????  Do you really think Mr. Lancaster would support Mr. Beseler or Mr. Newman????  Do you think, Mr. Beseler would tell him he would not want his support if he offered it.  Remember, Mr. Lancaster, even after all the smut the Mr. Beseler spread about him, still pulled I believe a numerous amount of votes.  Pretty impressive, I think.  Mr. Beseler would be a fool if he did not accept the support of a man that had that type of pull or influence.  Now, even if Mr. Lancaster offered his support, why wouldn't Taylor accept it?  I thought the purpose was to win the election, isn't it? 

I watch the blogs last night and for one was impressed with Mr. Taylor's responses and ideas.  I have kept quiet for some time now and seen a very few of you voicing your opinions against Mr. Taylor and his son.  You are entitled to have them, but when someone raises a question that is contrary to your opinion, a huge outlashing of picked apart blogs is C&P'd and disected.  It is like you can have your opinions and but try to discredit anyone elses opinion as just that, their own also! Who really gives a damn if Lancaster gives his support to Taylor.  I bet Mr. Beselers felon arrested step-son would still support Daddy!!  Oh wait, he might have lost his ability to vote now.  Sorry Beseler, you lost one vote! 

One thing really puzzles me also, about Ms. Armstrong...  How can she find more dirt than the CCSO, FDLE, and the STO?  Gosh Dang, woman, maybe you should run for Sheriff and clean the county up.  In the words of prior posts, it was her who found the information about Mr. Taylor's son.  Some are asking to have this case re-opened.  Let me get this straight, now.  5 months after the alleged attack, no evidence could be found by CCSO to affect an arrest.  2 years later, no evidence could be found by FDLE to affect an arrest.  Short time later, the STO said there was no evidence to arrest.  What type of evidence would you people think will magically appear 3 years later to would constitute an arrest.  It looks to me that your are saying all along what Mr. Taylor has been saying.  Officers do not know how to investigate crimes in the CCSO.  They have learned this from the leader, i would expect. 

I think of recently, how a convicted murderer that was set free due to a botched investigation by the CCSO. Mr. Beseler was really quick to call a press conference.  I wonder why when the STO would not investate the case against Adam Taylor, why he did not call another press conference.  If the evidence was there to make an arrest, then why havn't Mr. Taylor or his son been arrested still???  Mr. Taylor has stood numerous times right next to Mr. Beseler as well right in front of his command staff at every debate/forum, and none of them, yes I say none of them have arrested Mr. Taylor.  Why is this????  I thought there was evidence???  But I guess Ms. Armstrong need to tell you what the evidence is so you will see it.  Afterall, she seems to be a better investigator than the CCSO, FDLE and STO.  But wait a minute again, didn't Mr. Beseler come from the STO?  Wasn't he an investigator for them?  That might say alot about his ability to lead an investigation based totally on what the Beseler supporters are blogging about the ability of the STO!!!

 About the budget... Inguess it is no lie that Mr. Beseler returned a million dollars to the County.  But, how does a man in that position make that type of error in his figures?  How can he ask for 1,000,000 more than he needs.  Ok, maybe his math skills are not all that good.  I can see a mistake, but double of what he needed??????  I might see an error of 10%, bot 200%...WOW!!!!!!

Just my opinions and I am entitled to them.  Common Observer, Marsha, Princess Leia, Sam, Mr. Pike, pioneer, x-files, and oldtimer (and I am sure there are others)  start disecting my blog and discredit me too as you do all others that support Mr. Taylor to make your candidate seem better...

Sorry in advance for spelling and grammer errors...

Enough;

Mr. Taylor has stood numerous times right next to Mr. Beseler as well right in front of his command staff at every debate/forum, and none of them, yes I say none of them have arrested Mr. Taylor.  Why is this???? 

Maybe because the investigation is not about him? It is Adam Taylor that was being investigated. The only allegation against Mike Taylor is that he may have used his influence to short circuit the process. 

Mike Heemer

I don't think to many of the group you mentioned will dissect your post. Your comments, rambling style, and silly questions discredit you all by themselves... and I got no dog in this fight.

by the way, what is an STO? Do you mean SAO?

I hope the rest of you forgive me for chiming in here, I usually keep myself to the citizen petition and lawsuit issues..  But I've been reading about your Sheriff's race for quite awhile now also because I work in the Criminal Justice field. As an outsider, I'll leave my comment that it is a fascinating discussion.... 

Is that fascinating, as in "flashing lights, mangled metal, severed limbs by the side of the road" fascinating?

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

I'm not trying to discredit anyone.  For well over a year now I have brought my own topics, and I have responded to those that others have brought.  I have not pushed a focus on anything in particular other then the amendments that are under attack, and even with that I take a break now and again so as to not try to dominate the blogs.

At this point those of you who support Mike Taylor have all done the same thing, you attack Rick Beseler and since that story came out most of you have added those girls and their families to your arsenal.  I've not endorsed Beseler or Newman and don't intend to, I may not even share who I vote for in the end.  I have been vocal about not voting for Mike Taylor but I'm just a single person that a few may listen to and agree with here and there but I carry no power that everyone else doesn't have.

You all continue to represent facts not in evidence, like there is no evidence.  Show me anything anywhere that is part of an official record where the words "unfounded" exist.  Beseler lost accreditation, not true.  Adam Taylor passed a lie detector test, where is it part of the official records?  Mike Taylor proved last night he did write that email that was in these blogs because he repeated the part about attacks on family almost verbatim including doing the same thing he claimed to abhor.  Sometimes you need to use an example to make an example.....use another example that doesn't include your competitor. 

You all can disect what we say and call us names, when we do the same thing back we're taking things out of context. 

When will the last word come, when the election is over with regards to Mike Taylor. The last word will come with those girls when the new States Attorney makes a decision about what to do about that investigation.  It's obvious to me that nothing will probably happen before that.

Numerous attempts were made to squash that story, it's been coming for months. In the end, Folio won and until there is a suit filed by someone against them they've had the last word......and until it's challenged in a court of law it's a legal one.  I see alot of accusations about Susan Armstrong but where is the proof? 

As long as I see what I consider to be manipulation of the public on any matter I will speak up.  No one has to agree with me, no one even has to read what I say. 

Political Patronage carries it's supporters, those that will vote a certain way simply because they were asked to and not based upon their own views can create a big crowd. 

http://www.ctlac.com/

Sorry... i did mean SAO..

Mr. Heemer...

Case and point.  Another disect!

Back at you...

"Maybe because the investigation is not about him? It is Adam Taylor that was being investigated. The only allegation against Mike Taylor is that he may have used his influence to short circuit the process."

Isn't that a crime???  Oh wait a minute, now it is influence, not the badge.  I must have misread the article then.  I thought it stated something like he used his title as an officer of the law to get his son out of trouble.  I thought Mr. Taylor had to retire from the FDLE to run?  I can see where a civilian has that type of influence.

Marsha,

Your comments do not even merit a response other than it proves my point about discreting Mr. Taylor.  You have never blogged about anything negative about wither of the other 2 candidates...

Enough; 

Hmmm.... Good idea. Has anyone ever started an investigation into that? That is why I think there needs to be a Grand Jury investigation.

Let's get the whole mess out in the open.

These girls are sitll waiting for their chance to tell their story to a jury.

Mike Heemer

Since my name was mentioned, I feel the need to chime in.  I will not try to discredit you because I think everyone has expressed their opinion on the issues you have raised.  I have not said one thing about the rape issue.  I am staying away from it.

This is a blog.....the point is to put your two cents in on everything you want to.  If people didn't argue/debate about things it wouldn't be a blog.  That is really my only point.  Not trying to discredit you, just stating the obvious.  I argue with Angela on a lot of issues, yet we agree on others.  It is life, and we all want to express our opinions.  If we didn't care, we wouldn't log on (neither would you).  What you talk of will never end, unless the blog closes.

One minor flaw to point out... If $1,000,000 was 200% of the budget that means that the budget was only $500,000. How can you give back more than was budgeted?

You are absolutely correct, blogs are here for the purpose of discussion and although I get tired of seeing Mr. Taylor and his son being primarily the only ones spoken against on them, I feel the need to get out some ideas that are not being discussed. 

I do not have the numbers for the budget.  I just remember reading something about $1,000,000 the Sheriff gave back to the community.  My point was how can he miss by that much in creating the budget in the first place.  I am not a math major? 

Boy do I wish the WHOLE thing would get into the open.  ALL parties involved.  All witnesses for and against.  ONLY THEN we will know the truth.  So far all I have seen is an article in the FOLIO and some people on these blogs treat it as the Bible.  Maybe when the election is over, the SAO will conviene a Grand Jury and put in jail all that are guilty as well as punitive damages for false allegations, if there be any!

For the most part, this is a healthy forum.  It is here for each of us to express our thoughts. 

Once in a while one of us insults another just for giving their opinion.  That's not so good, but all in all there's not much of that.  We all have egos, so when we feel personally insulted, we may strike back.

Anyhow, let's just keep saying what we believe and why.  I don't mind people saying what they think.  If I disagree with them, I'll throw out my reasons why, and then see if somebody has a perspective that I hadn't considered.

The amount of money returned to the taxpayers was about $2 million, about $1 million at a time.  Rick Beseler is a tightwad, not just professionally but also in his personal life.  I think he's proud of that.  As long as the job is getting done well, which I think it is, then I'm all for running a tight ship.

I know I am a little bit critical, but if you put a % on your statement people think it is a real number.  Just be careful because people take things for face value (or at least I did...I shouldn't speak for everyone).

I have worked with governmental budgeting and it is not close to exact.  There are number contributors to somone coming in over/under budget.  I don't think anyone can comment on the $1,000,000 without talking to the person that oversees the actual expenditures.  I think it is insane to accuse someone of inflating their budget for political purposes when you haven't been in the details.  Rick ran on saving money, and he has done just that.  If he didn't return the money, his opponents would say he didn't keep his promise.  If someone wants to make a valid claim about the sheriff intentionally inflating his budget they should look at trends in the Consolidated annual financial statements.  This would be great proof (but no opponents of beseler should even mention it unless they can prove it numerically...which i doubt they have looked into because they haven't offered any type of proof).

Do you feel the Sheriff is justified in budgeting that much more than needed?  When giving the overbudgeted amount back, he is using it a political point, isn't he?  Why not say I made a mistake or I was wrong?   And then just return it.  It did not need to be announced as he did, there again... in my opinion.

You are now refering to Mr. Beseler as "Rick".  Is he that much of a personal friend that you can address him on a first name basis.  Just an observation...and MY opinion...  I am not speaking for everyone.

On the budget, "oldtimer has given the exact figures, (I would assume).  2,000,000 dollars over 2 years seems like a WHOLE lot of money to miss by.  He did announce it as a return to the tax payers, however.  That is true.  My statement was, however, how can the Sheriff miss the budget amount by that much?  That looks like he asked for $2 where he saw a need for $1 in every situation.  My opinion...

My impression has been that the first million dollars went back from the budget request that was submitted to the county commission prior to Sheriff Beseler actually taking office, but now I'm going to check on that.  I know how to get that info pretty quickly, so if I'm wrong, I'll let you know soon.  I;ll also find out about the second million.

Yes onemann.... very much like the fascination of a wreck...  I am very curious to see how these intertwined issues come out...... 

As a lifetime criminal justice professional I have lots of opinions on all this, but as an outsider I know when to keep my mouth shut!

Its also interesting to me that the Newman "faction" is staying clear of all this, I wonder how much that will help him in the end.... will he gain by staying out of the fray, or lose by not getting as much blog "ink"...

Why is it that after my blog titiled "Amazing", noone has addressed the now FREE murderer or Lancaster possible supporting Beseler or Newman?

Yes, I'm an OldTimer, and yes I know a lot of other OldTimers around this county, including Rick, Scott, and most of the other elected officials and former elected officials.

Anyhow, I've got a call in to somebody and waiting for a reply.  Hang in there.

Don't run... stay and play... it's fun.  I have never seen you quiet about voicing an opinion.  Why is one of the opinions you seem to voice is against Mr. Taylor and his son?

I left off one of the 9's and added a g... sorry, I will be more careful

You've accused me of saying nothing against the other two candidates when I said I had which is basically accusing me of lying.  To prove my point the blog written by AdiosSheriff called "Murder Charges Dropped", go look at it and see my entry right under the intitial one.  In it I literally say I will not vote for Rick Beseler because he accepted a contribution from John Thrasher and I don't like the way the CTLAC members were treated on that second petition drive.  It's as simple as typing in that blog title in search.

Go to the blog I wrote when the Folio story was released.  On the second page of responses an entry by me titled "I'm wide awake".  In it I questioned whether or not Gary Newman was a good choice or part of the past trying to come back.  I bet if you ask him he would think that is fairly critical.

I told Mr Newman personally at the GCS Merchants Forum at that time that he had my vote simply because there is too much controversey with the other two, and that is still a viable thought.  However in reality until my vote is cast it is subject to change.

As usual I argue about what is fact and what can't be proven and as usual you attack the messenger rather then the message.  Your tired arguments about no merit and out of context.  Just prove me wrong, prove where there is a lie detector test in the official records, prove to me in an official statement from any agency that any of the charges or accusations were unfounded.  Prove to me that Susan Armstrong has any relationship with Rick Beseler that she would not have with any public official or citizen.

You have provided no proof, you can only come back as others do with insulting my intelligence and calling me names. 

I have provided proof that I have criticized all candidate, would you like to do anything more to attack my personal credibility?  As long as you are not picking on those girls or their families and you're directing your tude at me then I have served a good purpose. 

http://www.ctlac.com/

Where can I call to get the same information?  Do not read into that.  I am not insinuating(sp) your response will not be the truth.  I just want to hear it for myself.

I think Beseler would have denouced Lancaster's support had Lancaster given it to him (similar to how presidential candidate's do).  I can promise that Beseler hasn't called Lancaster to ask for his vote.  Newmann has already tried to distance himself from Lancaster on this blog.

I can admit when I am wrong, and I am about the negative blogs!!  I sit corrected.  Hopefully, when the truth comes out about of this HYPE, other will apologize as well for the things they have said in error!  I will try to make comments like never and always, they are taken too literal, apparently...

bigmig;

That's never stopped you before! 

Just be careful, that last question is a hint. This one is worse than a couple of other MT supporters. And you can put any connotation on that word you want.

As for Gary, that is a good question. From what I have seen Gary is not the type to engage in the things MT has stepped into. I would hope that people actually listen in (read in?) on tonight's live blog.

I really think the race is down to Newman and Beseler. My guess is that Taylor has shot himself in both feet with his talk and his actions. And that was before the story about his son hit. I don't think he is a serious contender any more.

From what I can see even some of the big FOP guys have started to sit on the sidelines. I think they can see the hand writing on the wall and don't want to irritate the eventual winner any more than they already have. 

Mike Heemer

Enough:  Who can you call to find out for yourself?  Call someone who was involved in the budget process, including any one of the county commissioners who were involved in the process.  Someone in the county manager's office should be able to help, also.  Mabe you know someone who would know someone... if you know what I mean.  My guess is that you would have to wait a while to get a response.  That's what I'm doing.  I just don't know if it will be hours or days.  But, if you're a county taxpayer, ask the people who work for you in the county.

I really do not think that Mr. Lancaster would offer it, anyway; heck Beseler ran him out of office.  Realistically, where do you think he would give his support then?  And why should it matter who he (Lancaster) supports?  Like I stated before and I need to be careful because I do not have the exact numbers, but I thought I read somewhere that Mr. Lancaster received 13,000 or more votes.  Any candidate would be foolish not to want that type of support if they are trying to win an election.  Again, MY OPINION!!

So now you will fault me for reading the words you wrote, I guess wanting me to read between the lines that you really didn't mean "Never" or it was supposed to be overlooked in your bold type that you said "anything".  The other day one of your fellow supporters for MT Ms Chapple faulted an entire demographic of the population and bloggers for "reading between the lines" 

I always try to recognize the other side, I've declared no one guilty of anything but have predicated most everything with "I believe"  

I could have called you a liar when I responded to your charges about what I've said about other candidates but I didn't because I am not trying to inflame anyone. Instead I represented it factually, that you'd spoken untruths, and that is fact.

Now, you admit wrong, but then take it away for suggesting there is something wrong with literally reading what someone says and responding to it.

You were just wrong...period, apologies that have a "but" to them are insincere when you attach a but that somehow you were not at fault.

 http://www.ctlac.com/

Explain that comment to me please?  Hopw can I be worse if I am just stating what I believe?  Why do you address me as being worse and tell others to watch out?

I was the Forum the other evening in Clay Hill and listened to the candidates.  I heard the reaction of the crowd.  About even between Mr. Beseler and Mr. Taylor.  Supports for each are standing behind the choice candidates.  Mr. Newman's applause did not even compare.

As to the FOP members... are you a member?  Where do you get you information from?  Maybe they are sitting on the wall because Mr. Beseler has threatened them with their jobs?  (just an opinion not fact)  The polls will tell who is on the sidelines...

I see your point, but Lancaster also brings and Anti-Vote.  He is also a contravesial character and most people would want to keep their nose clean.  I don't think going to someone that was ousted by the citizens is a great political move, espically when it was documented that he was dishonest while in office.  I think taking Lancaster's support is a highly questionable political move.  Concealing and avoiding the subject that you have his support is even worse.

Hmmm .... Let's see, he pretty much got ran out of office, from what I've seen here not many people have a lot of good to say about him and I want his support why?

It seems to me that if he got all 13K of those votes he'd still lose.

Mike Heemer