Protect the County

BryonM;

Would you do me a favor? Please read the amendment placed on the ballot by the BoCC titled: Process for approval of casino gambling.

Then explain it to me. I have yet to figure it out. Maybe I should file a lawsuit against it.

The vast majority of the citizens didn't sign the petitions for nearly every candidate on the ballots either but we are still going to get a chance to vote for them.

Heck nobody signed any petitions for me but they still have a chance to write in my name and vote for me.

Byron, you cannot convince me that Roy is so stupid that he can't understand at least one of these amendments.

I think if you randomly picked 10 graduates from any Duval F school and asked them to read these CTLAC amendments they could explain them to you or anyone else that wants an explanation.

You keep speaking to not knowing how they would be implemented. What part of the two that don't concern doing away with the +2 don't you understand? And that is the issue. If it was only a challenge to the +2 it might (and that is a small might) make sense.

CTLAC doesn't have to know how to implement it. That is the job of the BoCC. That is why we pay them. That is why we elect them. If I'm elected to the Chair position and that amendment passes I can tell you exactly how I would recommend implementing the change. It isn't rocket science.

Mike Heemer

Byron (if that is even your real name)I'm not selling anything, donations to other causes have been asked for on these blogs and since it is of no personal financial gain to me and it's a not for profit organization I don't believe I have violated anything. 

If the amendments of the CTLAC are too complex for your brain then why aren't you squealing about the state amendments?  They've been discussed here without any input from you at all, at least I'm discussing many relevant issues when you seem to focus on the CTLAC issues only. 

In all of their efforts since this lawsuit was filed we have all talked about whether you are for or against these amendments is beside the point, the peoples right to effect change in their goverment is being challenged.  For you to willingly turn a blind eye to that in order to support political gain is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Why, because you are obviously on the side of those who are trying to keep the folks from voting, too fearful that because it  is a Presidential election year and a larger voter turn out is expected then what took place in 2006  that the measely percentage the 5+2 passed with before won't make it again.  At the time 51% would have been a majority and it passed at 1.4% over that if memory serves me correctly.

 http://www.ctlac.com/  Donate to the cause if you wish to help defend your 1st Amendment Rights.

Just a few for your reading pleasure, seems like alot of guilty posts lately if you ask me, or at the very least alot of close calls... I guess the question is whether or not the blog is an area which is designated a place for solicitation... (this petition issue is almost as interesting as the 5+2 issue)

You agree not to post, email, or otherwise make available content:

that constitutes or contains any form of advertising or solicitation if (1) posted in areas which are not designated for such purposes; or (2) emailed to MyClaysun.com users who have requested not to be contacted about other services, products or commercial interests

that purports to be from any person or entity, or falsely states or otherwise misrepresents your affiliation with a person or entity;

that purports to be from any person or entity, or falsely states or otherwise misrepresents your affiliation with a person or entity

that disrupts the normal flow of dialogue with an excessive number of messages (flooding attack) to the Service, or that otherwise negatively affects other users' ability to use the Service; or

"stalk" or otherwise harass anyone;

post irrelevant content, repeatedly post the same or similar content or otherwise impose an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure;

that harasses, degrades, intimidates or is hateful toward an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability;

Lookee how they're all coming out of the woodwork to object.  Kind of like getting CTLAC members thrown out of getting petitions signed because people called to complain.  I applaud the transparency, y'all are helping the cause, thank you!

http://www.ctlac.com/

Thank you Marsha for your input on this issue. I really appreciate your tenacity and follow-through.

As a resident of Green Cove Springs I feel that, at times, I am out of the loop on issues. This should not be as I live 4 miles from the "center of clay county politics".

Without the "free-flow" of information on this blog i would not have the answers that I need to make a rational decision. I may not agree with the opinions and statements that are presented here, but at least I am receiving needed information.  I really do not have the time to entertain  the opinions of those that would like to keep the "information" away from individuals that need to know.

jr

A little paranoid perhaps?   Who is the "they" you speak of? I read this blog pretty regularly, just rarely comment except with regard to the 5+2 and the petition because they are related and of interest to me. I must admit I've been pretty tempted by the "folio" thread to post since my background is in criminal justice issues and its a fascinating "issue" and dialogue.

Please note I never said your solicitation WAS against the terms of service... and please note that I think looking at those terms of service I pasted.. they have been violated pretty regularly by many of the people blogging, on both sides of any issue.  Especially "repeatedly posting the same or similar" posts.  So rather than guess... I just looked at the terms and pasted a few I thought relevant to alot of recent blogs.

I'll go away now, but reserve the right to come out of the woodwork again if I get the urge :)

this petition issue is almost as interesting as the 5+2 issue

It should be. It is the same issue.

Mike Heemer

BigMig I was referring to not just you, but Byron and Karen Lake who who all swarmed like flies to a carcass when I wrote that blog. Everyone is free to make their own opinions however at least Karen Lake is out there with her name and face, transparently pro the 5+2 and the annointed candidates having come from the CRC who created these extra two commissioners, and believes the voters are stupid. Where you and Byron are coming from is a little more obscure for the average reader who hasn't been here that long but it's not for me.  I just don't believe that you are a detached observer and neither is Byron but still in all.....you all have the right to be here just like I do.

I don't have a problem with people from the other side defending their position as long as it is clear and out in the open.

I'm out in the open, there are many who can verify that I am who I say I am, I've even been open about where I live and my address has been in these blogs although not put there by me.  

http://www.ctlac.com/

I don't think you're trying to protect my rights.  As a Clay County voter, I think you are implying that we are not SMART enough to read the amendments on the ballot and vote Yes or No. 

We, the voters are indeed able to read and interpret the 3 citizen initiative amendments on the November ballot, and I for one, am insulted and angry that you feel we are too stupid to make a decision on each of the 3 clearly worded amendments. 

Please do NOT say that Roy Lyons' lawsuit is protecting my rights.  You people are only trying to protect the all important (to some) Chair seat on the BCC.

Judy B.
(I am NOT a member of the CTLAC - just a supporter of the group and my US Constitutional 1st Amendment rights).

Support the CTLAC: www.CTLAC.com

Marsha or others that can assist,

Please forgive my ignorance. I have been attempting to locate information on the proposed amendments that all are talking about. I agree with 2 of them (at face value).

Is there somewhere that I can obtain info on the background on these proposed amendments. I understand the amendments as written, however I would like some aditional information. I have visited the link that you have supplied. I suppose what I am looking for is the reasoning behind them.

jr

What I meant was that my original interest was strictly whether 5 single member was "better" than 5+2. 

What I probably should have said is the issue of the lawsuit against the petition is almost as interesting as the issues in the petitions themselves.

I  took you up on the challenge you made to Byron on the casino amendment. I am most confused by the question mark at the end of it. Until that last section of the amendment I thought i was following it.  As to whether or not to file a lawsuit.. I think I'll stay away from that one.. passions run pretty deep up there about lawsuits against citizen petitions :)

This lawsuit is not protecting my rights......my right as a citizen of the United States of America, a resident and registered voter in Clay County in the state of Florida gives me the right to vote on these petitions, whether I am in favor of or against.  If Mr. Lyons succeeds in this endeavor and the petitions are removed from the ballot, Mr. Lyons has NOT protected my rights, but has taken away my rights. 

Come on ByronM, let's get real..... these amendments are as clearly written/stated as any any I've ever read, more so than most.  Even I understand them and I'm not a rocket sicentist!!  This is not to say I agree or disagree with them, which is my right, but I do have the right to exercise my vote ... for or against.

The vast majority of citizens (as you say) did not sign the petitions, that's their right.  Now, let them exercise their right to vote for or against them, but they may have that right taken away if Mr. Lyons succeeds in having the petitions removed.  Heck Byron, even your right to vote will be taken away or does that even matter to you?

If Mr. Lyons truly wants to protect my rights and the rights of the citizens, then do so by dropping this lawsuit and allowing us the right to vote on the petitions!!!  This should be decided at the polls, not in a court of law!!

With that said, my monetary contribution to the CTLAC is IN the mail as soon as I can get to the post office.  Join me Byron in protecting your rights. 

Stryker

Which petition can you not find to know the background. Is it the 5+2?

http://www.ctlac.com/

Yes Marsh,

The 5+2 is what I am looking for....

jr

The amendment to reduce the BCC is not on the SOE website as of yet.  Anyone who wishes to see a copy of it email me through this site and I will send it to you for your own personal examination. 

The link was taken down when the drive was completed and I dont know how to load it into a blog. 

http://www.ctlac.com/

Marsha,

Thanks for the assist....

jr

Well, Thanks to Marsha I now understand the 5+2 issue...

I cannot agree more with this proposed amentment. The more that we can limit the size of government the better.

In my short life I have seen what more government can do. When there is a individual that has been backed by those (good 'ole boys) that feel that they need to control things from the "background", so as to further "pad" their bank accounts and estates, the only losers are those of us that actually are the life blood of the country.

jr

I was glad to fill in what I see as the blanks of the issue for you.  I also emailed you the website for the PAC Roy Lyons started, www.clayvoterprotection.com so you could see the reasoning for adding the 2 Commissioners. I hope you got it because I am only happy with your choice if you believe you've looked at both sides.

My motto in life is not win at all cost or that the end justifies the means or let me see how much I can twist stuff to get my way.

http://www.ctlac.com/ Donate to the cause of defending the Peoples Right to Petition their Goverment.

Marsha, I did read the information from "the other side" and I still agree that we need smaller government.

jr 

Until that last section of the amendment I thought i was following it.

That was my problem also. What the heck does that section after the last semi mean? I'm fairly well educated (or at least I think I am) and it just doesn't make sense to me. 

As to whether or not to file a lawsuit.. I think I'll stay away from that one.. passions run pretty deep up there about lawsuits against citizen petitions :)

I might have been a bit obtuse with the law suit statement. Heck I don't have enough money to do that. I'd need to get some outside support and I can't see that happening.

My point was that there is a lawsuit against 3 citizen's petitions that are pretty easy to understand. Yet this one that was put on the ballot by the BoCC is so confusing as to be worthless yet the CPVR has not said one word against it.

Is this really a Committee for the Protection of Voter's Rights or is it a committee to protect the elected Chair position? Yes I know it was not CPVR that filed the suit. But I've already stated my opinion as to why I think it did not come from CPVR.

I don't really have to ask the question about their purpose. The name sounds really great. But their stated purpose is one thing and one thing only. The protection of the +2. Apparently as far as they are concerned you can step on any other rights you want as long as it does not have anything to do with the +2.

Mike Heemer

 WOULD BE TO ELIMINATE THE CHARTER.

I just returned from vacation and the first thing that smacks me in the law suit brought by Roy Lyon's against the Citizens for Term Limits and Accounbtability (CTLAC). 

It reminds me of the old Charles Atlas ads of the "bully" kicking sand on the small guy laying on the beach.  After this happens the "small guy" enrolls in the Charles Atlas program and pow! He takes on the "bully" and brings him down to size. Now you wonder what has this got to do with the lawsuit filed by Mr. Lyons, and his unkown backers, the GOP has bullied their way in Clay County goverment for two decades without any resistance.  Oh yeah there were a few vocal our bursts, electric surcharge, garbage fees to name a few.  We spoke up and had the BCC kick sand in our faces. So let us take the Charles Atlas course, vote-speak out-become vocal, and let them no that we aren't going to let them bully us any longer.

Roy Lyon's and his backer's have done everything possible to prevent the CTLAC from trying to protect our right's as citizens of Clay County and to hold the BCC accountable.  How much longer are we, the citizens of Clay County, going to let the few bullies pull the strings. 

Let the voters vote, up or down, and let's move forward with their decisions.

wainmed