Tick Tock Sheriff Beseler

I can appreciate who you will vote for in the upcoming election. I must say your keeping of time is flawed. You say you see August 27th "as a great day, one with hope." Just by your statement alone, you completely contradict yourself because whichever way the election goes, Sheriff Beseler will still be in office. So if your prediction is correct, which it will be, it will be a good day because every day that we wake up is a good day.  You know as well as I do that every person who assumes a new office (Sheriff, Clerk of the Court, Supervisor of elections etc.) makes one or more mistakes. No one person is perfect.  I think many people are quick to pass judgment on a person's mistakes and consider them incompetent (which generally cannot be supported).  Well that simply in not true. History is full of people who have made mistakes, but in the end those people eventually became great leaders.I bet if you were to ask Sheriff Beseler if he made mistakes he probably would say he has and would have done something different. No one has a crystal ball and can predict the future. With those same mistakes there are others who made the same mistakes along with him.  Each and every employee of the Sheriff's Office is also responsible for not providing input based on their experience. If they failed to provide input and didn’t, shame on them. If they did were they shut down? Probably not but a decision was made with their input.Sure we can look at what happened in the past now, but can you say at the time you knew what was going to happen (ie misfortune, death...). You can’t! The Sheriff's Department is not just the Sheriff for if it was, then he would not need the 600 other paid and volunteer employees he has.

Again As I said I’m not bashing who you support because that is your right.  But the fact of the matter is if Mr. Taylor is elected, he too will have/make some of the same mistakes, maybe not the same, but he will as did the previous Sheriffs of Clay County or any other persons who assumed political office. My final question. If he was to make a mistake is he incompetent? You can tell the future on one part... I bet someone will call him incompetent too.

I'll say one thing for you Taylorvoter. At least you are up front about your support for Taylor. Unlike a number of others who just bash Beseler without saying they want Taylor elected.

I don't agree with all that you say but at least you are honest about it.

I'll caution you about one thing regarding making mistakes. The only person that never makes a mistake is the one that does nothing. I don't want a Sheriff (or any other elected official) that never makes a mistake. 

Mike Heemer

Tayorvoter,

 You absolutely have the right to have Mike Taylor signs in your yard. Unfortunately, it appears that those who support Rick Beseler do not have that same right, as someone tears those signs down. Hhhmmm.....

1 sign per candidate per yard by Clay County Ordnance.  Best brush up on the law. I hope that your lack of Clay County Ordnance knowledge isn't reflectant on your candidate.

No matter whose elected Sheriff I bet the deputies will still hang out on Brannon Field talking about the acts of the day and eat every morning at the Kountry Kitchen.

I will be not be voting for Beseler in the upcoming elections. Everybody makes mistakes but there have been some serious blunders coming out of that agency since he took office. The last most public blunder was the man who shot a women in the back and called it self defense due to his agency changing paperwork. Integrity is not a mistake either you have it or you don't. Management skills are not a mistake either you have them or you don't.

I don't think in the history of the county I have ever seen such disarray in a Sheriff's Office as I have seen in the past couple of years. I cannot vote for disarray in one of the most important aspects of the county public safety.

I cannot support the prison for profit scheme either.

Signs are all over the county is a fall back of the political season. More reason to appoint a Sheriff. Then we don't have to go through this process and it can be handled in a more efficient way and we can hire a professional law enforcement officer for a change in the county.

If only one sign per yard is allowed most of the county would be jail

Buford T. Pussart (sp) was still alive. Whats funny is that I read alot of negative things about our own Sheriff's office here in the Blogs but I can only remember a couple of things that came public.  There's been more in the T.U. on Camden County Georgia's so called Public Servant then I can remember reading about our own.  But from the opinions of some toward our own County Sheriff's administration I guess they don't feel that Camden Counties former Sheriff was doing anything wrong.

1 sign per candidate.  And it seems that Orange Park has it's own rules.

I didn't know he was the former Sheriff. Isn't he still there. That is a perfect example of why 4 years in that office is enough for anyone. One of my favorites:

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/101407/met_208183322.shtml

Talking about signs. Has anyone seen Cummings Billboard. Sorta reminds me of Rutledge when he was on Blanding. Cummings is on Kingsley.

I've seen some yards that have a sign for each candidate for Sheriff. I guess they are playing on the safe side.

I saw the Cummings billboard at night---it is certainly a show-stopper.  I wonder how much something that HUGE costs? 

I guess it does not matter to him, he has plenty of money already (50K) and he is rumored to be expected end up with a total of almost 100K.  That is an amazing amount of money for a single member district. (The CTLAC may not be right about the single districts being easier for the everyman to run)  I see he has the usual suspects on his donor list. 

Such as shame we have single member distircts all that money and no place to go but district 3

Angela,

I've been reading your post and it appears you are savvy in gaining/gathering public records. Your statement "The last most public blunder was the man who shot a women in the back and called it self defense due to his agency changing paperwork. Integrity is not a mistake either you have it or you don't. Management skills are not a mistake either you have them or you don't." Can you qualify your statement or are you just merely providing opinion. I don't really know where you're coming from.  Also without sounding like a personal attack upon you, which I don’t want to sound that way but are you anti-"local” government?  I searched your blogs and you are constantly criticizing or maybe “slamming” our local government.  Have they done something to you? Would you mind elaborating? 

Did you happen to miss this article concerning this situation? There were letters submitted by both Beseler and Shorstein that was placed on the blogs too. As a matter of fact Shorstein stated if the Sheriff did not like his decision he would convene a grand jury. I haven't seen one yet!

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052108/met_281106550.shtml

I would call this a blunder. I could posted several other articles if you would like about different situations.

No I'm not anti "local" government. I do however expect them to rise above illegal dumping, cronyism, nepotism, and a few of the other isms that have happen in our county government. I think government should be accountable to the people.

I'm certain it's better I don't blog all the information I do know. However just like all who blog here these are my opinions. In my opinion and based off what information I have been able to gather Beseler has no integrity. I think I'm entitiled to that opinion. I hope you would not approve of some of the situations that have happened in Clay County. We have quite a history.

Opinion:  A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

The above is not my opinion, but a real definition.

The man who shot and killed that women walks free today courtesy of the Sheriff's Office. That is a fact.

As Webster would say:

blunder: a gross error or mistake resulting usually from stupidity, ignorance, or carelessness.

Pick on, any one. 

I don't see integrity as one of those adjectives. And that is what we are talking about, isn't it?

Since you want to be technical, a mistake was made by the Sheriff's Office. But that person walks free as a courtesy of the SAO, who made the decision not to try him.

Would you want to be in court room in front of a jury while the defense attorney talks about your failed attempts to change police reports and documents in the case?

What do you think those officers would look like after he got finished?

Can we say Mark Fuhrman he is best known for his plea of no contest to perjury committed during testimony in Simpson's murder trial. To date, he is the only person who was convicted of criminal charges related to the Simpson case.

Shorstein in my opinion covered Beseler by dropping the charges.

Does it put that guy behind bars. I don't think so. But it does put that woman 6ft under.

We will never know if he would have been convicted. But one thing is certain- you have to try someone in order for a conviction to even be possible. And as far as covering the Sheriff- with all of your "knowledge" (TU articles) you should realize that what Shorstein did was in fact the exact opposite.

Oh, and the TYPE of report was the only thing that needed to be amended, not changed. It was the timing and sequence of events that led to the case being dropped.

Not quite the "made for tv" drama that you make it sound like. 

Do you we have any doubts? It would have been by the time the defense attorney got finished and we could have watched it on local tv.

Of couse Shorstein offered to convene a grand jury. It seems Beseler didn't bite. Do you know why?

Perjury,especially to LEO is very serious.

It is the decision of the SAO to decide whether to go forward with a case. What would be the point of a grand jury?

The accusations flew on both sides. Mistakes were made. The decision not to go forward was made. The reasons for that are debatable.

I am sure if you were to ask the Sheriff to recall an event that he regrets the most this one would probably be the one. But again, it is not due to lack of integrity.

Thank you it can be the end of a career.

Who committed perjury? No one did. That was not the issue.

Now you may have just answered why we didn't have a grand jury?

Beseler inhereted a very talented and professional agency. He chose to ignore the talents of the senior people and bring in his own. These are the ones that hurt him and are making the mistakes,but he ignores this. He told them they had been doing everything wrong all these years, even though the statstics proved different. That is hard to swallow when you know you can do a better job. To add  salt to the wound, he paid the new people more than those who had climbed the ranks of promotion.

I believe I did-read previous posts.

Nothing to do with perjury.

... in a list of missteps by our judicial system overall. I have no feelings pro or con to the sheriff. I do dislike Mr. Shorstein a lot. I think he's just a bureaucratic hack who can not be counted on to do a good job and I welcome his exit from the stage. But this incident involving the death of that woman just emphasizes how badly things are run in our county. Without boring the long time bloggers to tears, the case of Elmer Polite still rankles in general. I simply can not condone this judge (Collins, I believe) sentencing the killer of three children to a 1500 dollar fine and allowing Polite to refuse to pay it. Collins should not be reappointed to the bench.

I have been following the back and forth comments regarding the three candidates for sheriff. Mostly they are very interesting and the battle lines are definitively drawn. What I haven't seen is any passionate advocacy for the replacement candidates for Harry Shorstein. What are people's opinions on either Jay Plotkin or Angela Corey? I have concerns about both of them and need to try to determine (yet again) the lesser of two evils. I use the term "evils" in the least contentious way. I don't believe they are evil, per se, but they both seem to be dragging unwanted baggage to the race.

If someone has a passionate choice maybe a new thread could be started?  Angela, I especially would love your input here.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

They had to DEPO a Captain 5 times, could not keep his story straight.

Here's a link to the letter written by Shorstein.

http://www.jacksonville.com/images/060508/shorstein.pdf

I think with all of the research I've done I would have to lean in the direction of Angela Corey. She has pledged to do as Mayor Austin did and have a public corruption unit started. We could certainly use that in the 4th district. She has also pledged to work with the Officers about investigations and constitutional rights. That should help with a better conviction rate. I'm a huge supporter of John Tanner who she works for now.

Mr Taylor has also had many signs stolen or damaged. The most recent that I know of was in Lake Asbury,it was cut in half and left hanging. This one was not reported to CCSO but most of them were. You would hope that these are just vandils and not canidate supporters.

Both are very good attorneys. Angela is more of a "people person' than Jay. They have all worked together. The funny thing is, the FOP supports Angela and so does Beseler.

Politics can make stange bedfellows. And I would have to throw in one more reason to sway me. Her name is Angela.

Here we go again.  Once again, CTLAC is dragged into every complaint about Clay politics.  Why don't you scrutinize the actions of our elected officials and power brokers the way you do us.  CTLAC has NEVER said SMD's will eliminate special interest influence in local politics.  Special interests  will always contribute to campaigns.  It's legal. What we did say is that SMD's will level the playing field so that ordinary people, with less money, can have a fighting chance to have a viable campaign.  Sorry you're having trouble running against Cummings.  His large campaign account seems to be overkill, but what is the alternative?  Should we go back to at-large elections so that you would have to raise at least $100,000 or more?  Cummings could do it.  Could you?  Why don't we ask our highly paid elected officials to come up with the perfect answer.

There does seem to be a lot of money running around out there doesn't there?

Mike Heemer

You seem too touchy about the CTLAC, I was not dragging the CTLAC into this, I was commenting (if you read the subject)that BIG MONEY still was a BIG factor in the elections. There was no "dragging" intended.   I do not know what the alternative is, it just seems as finder says "there is alot of money out there" It does not seem to matter single member or at large, the big money folks are still backing their candidates.  As far as leveling the playing field, I guess we will know in November.

Excellent question, how to stop all the special interest influence and money being given to candidates?

Answer: Wake up Clay County! If you see bigger than life campaigns or signs remember big signs cost big bucks. If you didn't donate then find out who did.

If you go to each candidate's contributions on the SOE's website you can just about pick out the few. Of course that would be for their benefit not the ordinary citizens/voters. You just get stuck with the tab. Because you will be picking up the bill!

However, there is power in your vote and that is something special interest cannot control or buy. Use that power or lose that power.

JP quote of the day, "Why don't we ask our highly paid elected officials to come up with the perfect answer."

clayvoter;

(The CTLAC may not be right about the single districts being easier for the everyman to run)

I'd say you probably didn't intend to 'drag' the CTLAC into this but I think they are not feeling much love lately.

I've read a few of the post out here and at times I've heard them called nearly everything but a child of God. There are some out there that would blame them for the mortgage mess if they could figure out how to get CTLAC into that conversation.

You have to admit that they've been beat up pretty badly lately. Especially since the lawsuit that was filed by Roy Lyons. These are a group of people that are trying to make a difference in the County. They don't have a huge bankroll to work with.

What they do is out in the open and subject to the vagaries of getting petitions signed. They spent many hours every day to get the second set of signatures for this amendment and you know that it wasn't the same exact people that signed both times.

That's a lot of signatures. My feeling is if they can get this many in such a short time for a second go around there are a lot of people that are having second thoughts about the +2. Let it go to the ballot and let the voters decide. If they measure doesn't pass then so be it. The voters have spoken and you move forward.

If you think they are wrong all you have to do is vote against the amendment. That is all anyone has to do. The issue as I see it is that if it makes the ballot then there is just too much left to chance for those that don't want it to pass.

It's kind of like a jury. You just never know what will happen. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but just because I'm paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get us. Why would there be that much money floating around for any particular position?

Mike Heemer

I have worked with all three of these candidates. I will be voting for Beseler and Plotkin.  Beseler is truly dedicated to upholding the law.  I have lived in Clay County my entire life and believe Beseler has been the best sheriff this county has seen. Taylor seems to make whatever promises will get him elected. Jay Plotkin will be a better State Attorney than Shorstein or Corey. He started a Juvenile Justice Program in the State Attorney's Office that has garnered national attention. He is very personable and compassionate. I believe his attention to the law will straighten out any problems the State Attorney's Office is currently experiencing.

So if I contribute money to a candidate I am profiled as a special interest person? Not hardly, I know the person and I have looked at their background and their platform and I feel they are the best pick in my opinon. Over the years I have contributed significant amounts of money to candidates. Did I receive any special favors for my contribution? No

Now on to the State Attorney race. I have meet Corey once seems like a nice lady and she is qualified. I know Jay Plotkin personally as we have sat on several boards together over the years. He is his own man and I believe we will not see more of the same out of the SAO. Remember Harry is the big boss and his assistants have to do what Harry says or they look for another job.

http://voteplotkin.com/

Sam,

High five! Jay is a great advocate for juvenile programs and treatment before they become career criminals.

Magnum;

I don't think anyone would call you a special interest because you contribute to a candidate even if you contributed to more than one candidate.

But when you see 3 or 4 checks coming to the same candidate from the same address on the same day it just makes the antennae twitch and the brain says Hmmmm. Is it illegal? No. Does it automatically represent something nefarious? No. But it do make you wonder. Especially if it happens more than once. 

Mike Heemer

Magnum I'm impressed and an issue very important to you! You are an advocate for programs and treatment. How nice!

Instead of discriminating for one group. I feel the same about others in society. I think I've advocated for the mentally ill on here several times. I think we as a society need to protect the elderly, the young and the mentally ill.

I will not be voting for Beseler. I have a problem with police misconduct and people who kill people walking free. I think the victim's family has issues with this matter as well.

Harry Shorstein instituted a juvenile justice program that combines prevention with punishment and rehabilitation. This has been featured on several programs.

As State Attorney in Jacksonville, Florida, Harry Shorstein has instituted an inventive, highly-acclaimed juvenile justice program that combines prevention with punishment and rehabilitation. The Jacksonville approach is based on early intervention for at-risk youth, incarceration for violent and repeat offenders, and extensive education and rehabilitation programs.

This information can be found on his website too. Didn't want someone else to steal his thunder.

Magnum "Remember Harry is the big boss and his assistants have to do what Harry says or they look for another job."

I agree with that statement. That's why Angela Corey works outside of the State Attorney's Office now. I like independent thinking women.

http://angelacorey.com/

Angela wrote  "Answer: Wake up Clay County! If you see bigger than life campaigns or signs remember big signs cost big bucks. If you didn't donate then find out who did."

I guess everyone has big money since they all have big signs.  At least Sheriff Beseler used his from the last campaign and just stuck a "re-elect" sticker.

Taylor must how gotten his "big money" around last Christmas since his signs have been out all year.

The good part about single member districts is they use to say they needed all that money to campaign countywide. Now they just need the votes of the single district wonder what the excuse will be now. Of course it's perfectly legal to not accept contributions.

I can tell you that the Juvenile Justice Program in the State Attorney's Office is Jay's baby. He is the one who put together the committee to design the program and worked for months to put together this program. Harry's name is just that-his name attached to the program because he is "the State Attorney" now. As an Assistant State Attorney you can focus on one issue at a time as Jay did with this program. As State Attorney, I believe, Jay will focus on the office as a whole and will do a great job. He is a leader and that is what that office needs.

I haven't begun doing the research I'll need before deciding who'll earn my vote in the State's Attorney's race.  Evidence of leadership is one thing I'll be looking for, and you have to respect the efforts of someone who can put together the Juvenile Justice Program.

Of at least as much importance is attitude.  Before either candidate gets my vote, I want to know a couple of things.

Do they think blatant violations of Government in the Sunshine laws are deserving of no more than lectures, like ol' Harry does?  Will they continue to grant to public officials south of I-295 the virtual immunity they've received from Short-term Shorstein?

Of course, both Plotkin and Corey are politicians, and lawyers, to boot.  I might have to look 'em in the eye before I'll believe their answers.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

If as you stated, Plotkin is his "own man", why did he change political parties to run for SA?  If he's as good as you and Sam say he is, he should be able to run and win as a Democrat, Republican, or Other.  I'm getting the feeling lately, that so many candidates as well as voters, are not being true to themselves, because they feel the only way they can win is as a Republican, and the only way they have a choice in the elections is to be a registered Republican.  Plotkin's switcheroo is one of the reasons I'm voting for Corey.  Another reason is that Shorstein fired her. 

I have spoken with people who say they aren't really Republicans, but that's the only way they get to vote here in Clay County and Northeast Florida.  Makes me wonder, if all the people who were REALLY true to themselves, registered in the Party or No Party of their real beliefs, what the actual ratio of Republicans, Democrats and Others would be at the top of the SOE website. 

Am I the only one who feels this way?  I hope not.

I have read almost all of the posts regarding the sheriff’s race, because I agree with Angela, this is the most important race affecting our county.  I have not put in my two cents very often, but I do believe that they might be of help this time (even if I am 50 posts late).

Signs -

On the signs issue, while both candidates have had problems with their signs, I believe Mr. Taylor is the one abusing his right to advertise.

I first noticed that Mike had replaced some of his very large signs (the ones that he had added endorsements to) with similar yet smaller signs.  This made me start wondering, because it does not make much sense to replace perfectly good signs with new, strikingly similar ones.  What I discovered is that Mr. Taylor had violated the code that limits the size of the signs that can be put up.  I give him the benefit of the doubt that he simply didn’t think about how adding his endorsements would violate the ordinance.  My problem, however, is that not all of his signs have been changed (not even the majority of his signs have been changed).  It has been over a month since he started changing his signs and only a handful of them have been altered to comply with ordinance. 

Secondly, I noticed today (7/7/2008), that ALMOST all of the signs at the intersection of 220 and hwy 17 are gone.  When I saw this, I instantly remembered a blog talking about how that was “public property” and that nobody should have any signs there (I don’t usually rely on blogs for my information, but I am relying on it for this one).  I remember that Mr. Taylor was the first to put a sign there, but I can’t and shouldn’t fault him for that b/c every other candidate in the county put a sign there too.  The problem is that Mr. Taylor’s sign is still up when everyone else has taken theirs down (because County ordinance states that signs can’t be placed on public property).  I would also like to note that the sign that is still up, is one of the ones with the extra endorsements on it (it violates ordinance).

I know these are very small details about a very large campaign, but they are county ordinances that are not being followed.  I think the person running for the most important law enforcement position in the county should AT LEAST correct his mistakes when he is told that he is in violation of county ordinance.

Campaign Funds -

Since the subject has been brought up, I would like to express my “expert” opinion on this subject.  I say expert because I have made a living in the corporate world for many years (mostly accounting with about 4 years of finance in the beginning of my career).

I have visited the Clay County Supervisor of Election’s website (thank you finder for posting that in another blog) and noted some alarming items (at least to me) about the reported expenses.

http://www.clayelections.com/CandidatesAndCommittees.htm

I have not done an actual count of all the signs, but it appears as if Mike Taylor and Sheriff Beseler have about the same number of signs put out.  They also have very similar items (bumper stickers, yard signs, large business signs that you see everywhere).  However, Mike Taylor had a BBQ (you can check this on his website, b/c the flyer is still on it) with free food, rides, games, etc.  Sheriff Beseler had no BBQ or similar type event.

Having done some printing in my time I know that Mike Taylor’s signs have to cost a lot more than Sheriff Beseler’s.  Mike Taylor’s signs have 3 colors and the wood used to frame the sign is painted yellow.  Sheriff Beseler has a two colored signs with naked (un-painted or finished) wood used as the frame.

What all this means to me is that Mike Taylor’s reported expenses should be a lot higher than Sheriff Beseler’s.  The problem is that Mike Taylor’s reported expenses are about $8,700 less than sheriff Beseler’s.  In giving Mike Taylor the benefit of the doubt (by that, I mean to assume his in kind contributions covered the BBQ) I am going to subtract his in kind contributions (Mike’s in kind contributions totaled $2,405.14) and he still has about $6,300 less in reported expenses.

I would like to STRESS that THIS IS MY OPINION AND MY ANALYSIS…..I am by no means accusing Mr. Taylor of fraud (I don’t want to be slanderous or anything like that….you have to CYA in today’s world)….I am simply pointing out that the numbers do not make sense to someone with a very high level understanding of finance and accounting (Maybe Mike will open up his books and prove me wrong).

Regardless of the issues (b/c I think both candidates are capable of running the sheriff’s office), these two items have swayed my vote.  I believe that Sheriff Beseler is a more trustworthy person.

Before looking into these two issues I was pretty much undecided (I was a little turned off by the Taylor camp because of failure to backup some of the remarks made by his supporters.  However, the sensible side of me said that I could not fault a candidate for his dumb supporters making dumb comments, since I have no knowledge whether he supports the people that make these remarks or not).  I have made up my mind, and the Pike Family (my wife and children of voting age agree with me) will be supporting Sheriff Beseler.

Thanks for sharing your analysis Mr Pike.  I think you've made it abundantly clear you're stating an opinion based upon your own study.  

If you feel like doing anymore of those type analysis with other Candidates I for one would be interested in reading about further findings. 

I was told the other day that we all need to keep in mind that whats on the books now are donations and expenditures through March, and that the next set of reports will provide an even clearer picture of who is giving what to who and what they're doing with it. 

One of the reasons for Taylor not spending as much for his better signs is that the sign vendor has given him great prices. He is not spending as much as signs as someone who is using his old signs because he shopped around and found the best deal.

Wow, shopping around for the best deal.  How many tax dollars could be saved if the other politicians had this idea.