November...so what?

Felix, I don't think I am following your logic here. If only Republicans cast their hats into the ring, and there happens to be two or more Republicans for the same seat, then the election will be decided by Republicans only in their primary in August. Without an Independent choice, there is no further option for the rest of the electorate. That means no election in Novemebr. This leaves you with less of a choice overall. At least with an Independent or a write in option, we can at least pretend we have a say in the ultimate decision in November.

Add to that the particular individuals who are running.  I'll be polite and simply state we are not getting the A Team of a Candidate List.  A couple of them are visibly ill qualified for the seats they would like to occupy. Add to that most of them will be beholden to a political machine with an agenda (see the John Thrasher back room deals) at odds with many people in the county and Voila, your recipe for disaster is complete.

Now, I voted once in my life for a Democrat and lived to regret it.  It finally came about after too many years under the harsh authoritarian rule of the Hugh Carey / Mario Cuomo junta which ultimately drove me from New York state. The selection of George W. Bush as Republican standard bearer in 2000 was the straw that broke this old camel's back and so now I am very happily an Independent.  One should never trust too deeply in "group think" as I call it.  The respective parties have their ulterior motives and they usually do not bode well for the average citizen. So, the more Independents who choose to buck the "good old boy" back room politics, the better. I will support anyone who is not in debt to a party machine.

Just thank your lucky stars we live here and not in Sweden where "fair play" is decided by the government.  Check out this link.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hkBG46h2R7GP4O08d5vSYk416N0gD91JTSFG0

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Felix;

So what? That is the best you can do for the American system of Government? So what?

It's my fault that there is not an active Democratic Party in Clay County? You blame me and some others that care about the County for taking away your choice as to which Republican is handed the office in August?

That Republican may walk past the competition in November but by golly they are going to walk until November. The exercise will do them good. They've been sitting on their butts like fat cats laughing the heads off at all the other parties that are either too afraid or too lazy to challenge them for way too long.

It is not supposed to be which Republican the Democrats think is best for the office. With your thinking why even bother voting in the Primary. If you aren't a Republican you probably can't influence which Republican wins anyway. Just stay home and relax. It isn't going to matter anyway. Then you can be just like the other Democrats that won't put an effort forward to try to change things.

It's easy to poke a stick at someone and blame them for you not having a chance to vote for a Republican. It takes some actual effort to say I'm going to be the one that fights the good fight win or lose.

I'll tell you how I'm different. I don't have to follow some Party Line. I am able to think for myself. I don't have to worry about how the 'leaders' of the party think I should act or vote. I have the choice to do what is right regardless of how some Executive Committee wants me to do it.

And I can answer someone in a manner that expresses my real feelings. I don't have to pander to anyone because as you implied I have a snowball's chance in Hades of winning anyway so why not just tell it like it is.

You obviously didn't read my response to ByronM in a previous blog. He had the same complaint.

The part I don't understand is how you thought you were having a say to begin with. Why would anyone that was not a Republican care which Republican gets nominated? So what if the DEMs or NPAs or 'Others' can't vote on the Republican nominees?

The 2 year at-large is still 'open'. You can vote for any one of the 3 REPs that are running. Still not much of a 'choice' for a DEM or an NPA or any of the other 25 'minor' parties that exist in Florida. And when the Primary is over that REP will be the 2 year at large Commissioner. Way to go DEMs etc. You just elected an REP to be your brand spanking new first ever at large Commissioner.

If the DEMs or NPAs or Others want a choice that represents their values and ideals I'm afraid they are going to have to do something other than whine about how someone just 'closed' the Primary.

It is too late now, but 2 years from now we will be electing D2, D4 and the 2 year at large will open to become a 4 year at large. If you start now, you can gather enough petitions to have your name on the ballot as a representative from your party. Then get up out of your Barco-Lounger and start campaigning for the at large seat that will be open in two years. Or at least help someone else from your party do so.

You can watch what happens, wonder what happened or make things happen. For way too many years members of parties other than REPs have been satisfied to sit back and vote for REPs in the primary then gripe about how the REPs are not doing a good job.

It's kind of like anything else in life Felix. You can't win if you never give yourself a chance to lose. If your party doesn't have a candidate in the race you've lost way before August.

Mike Heemer

You can watch what happens, wonder what happened or make things happen.

Mike,

This is absolutely the best line I have ever heard in my life !  I think it is something that alot, if not all, people should live by.

Oh, and I almost hit the report abuse button instead of reply !

Amie

I could hardly believe what I was reading when I read that blog by Felix.  So what???  As an Independent or NPA, I couldn't believe my eyes!  I HATE going to the polls in August and having to choose which Republican I want to represent me. 

Even the very Republican county in NY where I grew up and lived all of my life until 1996 when we moved to Clay County, had November choices.  The Republicans always won, well most of the time, but there was seldom a time when the Primary vote in August or September was the final decision.  One year there was an election when my very Republican then husband and I worked for a Democrat to become Town Supervisor.  He was the best man for the job, regardless of Party affiliation - and he won! 

When I vote on November 4th, if I feel that a Republican candidate is going to best represent me on the BCC, I would vote for that person, but I am happy to at least have a CHOICE!  I don't care if in August I don't get to choose the Republican Party's candidate.  Let them do that.  I'll vote for the candidate of my choice in November - at least I have a choice now in District 5 for Commissioner, and the new at-large Chair position.  District #3 and District #1 have Commissioner choices and the School Superintendent is up for grabs in November too! 

Thanks to ALL of the "other than Republicans" who are giving us a choice in Clay County - finally.

Judy B.

Finder:

My complaint, and only complaint, was that Mr. Platt recruited his friend Mr. Nelson to file as a write-in in order to close the primary because Mr. Platt feels like that gives him a better chance to win.  This sounds like the "party machinery" that you seem to want to avoid.  I get the feeling, though, that you only care if its not your friend/candidate.  Finder, you're learning the ropes quickly.  You're becoming quite the politician. 

Fred Catchpole Office 904-771-6852 Cell 904-708-5541

Felix, I am sure you have been to some of the Republican Forums to get a clear understanding of how that august body of candidates want to spend your hard earned tax dollars.  It was witnessing some of those forums that made me take off my beloved Steelers hat and throw it into a political venture.  I am not skilled at weasel wording so I could never be a member of the two party system. Further I could not allow my positions or beliefs to be scripted by people in a back room.  I like to think that I do think for myself.

I watched in awe as questions were posed with the same question to each candidate. The answer by the first person to the question would set the standard.  The second candidate would also answer the same way but hold his head a little differently to insure that people thought he said something different, but a clone is a clone.  Duh!

Thus there is no difference in the candidates except sex, color of hair(if any), weight, and of course they are all neat, tidy and well rehearsed to say the same thing.

What is the purpose of a two party system if only one party puts up candidates.  I thought about that for a minute and uttered the famous word from Gone with the Wind that sent people running out of the theater and into the streets shouting for God to forgive Clark Gable.

After uttering that famous word, I said to myself I do not like what the clones are saying, I do not agree with it so if the other party is not going to do something I will.

I liken choosing in a primary with only one party represented to a beauty pagent.  I felt we needed some ugly to choose from since all those good looking candidates all agreed on everything including that their goal in office is to work for  world peace. 

So Felix I invite you to pick your beauty queen in August and then support him against someone who is not cloned and more like a person than a robot in November.

Thank your for the challenge of spelling convoluted.

Fred Catchpole

If Mr. Platt encouraged Mr. Nelson to enter the race as a write-in, what advantage would that give to Mr. Platt?  As I understand it, there would be three Republicans in the August primary, the representative of the party to be chosen by Repubicans.  Then, in November, the winner of the Republican primary would be running against a candidate from another party.  Isn't that the way it is supposeed to happen?  Aren't elections supposed to be final in November? (well except in 2000 when the SCOTUS stepped in and gave it away)

Felix,

Perhaps you should consider a letter writing campaign to the two dominant parties and whomever to complain about how they've structured election laws.  I think that a tax paying citizen being barred from voting due to partisan politics is far more of a crime then the kite you're trying to fly here.  If it were not for the fact that this is a Presidential Election year I just bet you'd be complaining that my Husband and all other Independent/NPA candidates were wasting tax dollars taking it through to November. 

In the two blogs you've written you've clearly defined for me what side you're sitting on.  You're either a candidate yourself, or you're on "the other side" of Independent representation in Goverment.

Byron,

Although I am sure Mike will address this himself I believe he confused your blog.  In one you had an issue with a "planted candidate" but before or after that one in the same thread you were questioning Freds pledge to do nothing to keep the voice of citizens out of their goverment when he is against the two added Commissioners.  The inference was made that in being against those extra two that he was taking something away from you.  Felix implied the same thing, the Independents/NPA's are taking away his right to play multiple choice with Republican candidates. 

I can tell you from experience, when you participate in these blogs as much as I do, or Mike Heemer does it is not only HUMAN to get confused.....it's an ongoing effort to keep it all straight with who said what under what blog where.  It's too bad you didn't merely point out the error and wait for what probably would have been an admission of a mistake. 

It gives this 'registered' Republican a choice, which I am thrilled about!  Come November, I will be proud to cast my vote for at least one 'other' candidate.  And I'm looking long and hard at the rest of the 'other' candidates.  Hope the 'snowballs' can find a group/groups who will sponsor a forum for a real debate!! 

A special "THANK YOU" to all of the candidates who have blogged here and to all the bloggers for the interesting and down to earth blogs and comments.  It's been a real learning experience. 

Stryker

Man, you didn't have to insult me like that.  All kidding aside, let me try to answer both your responses.

Finder, I know that you feel as though the system is working and people have choice. But do they really? A write in candidate does more than give choice, it also does the very politically convenient job of "closing the primary." In other words, democrats and independents play no role in the primary whatsoever.

This is the first part of your original response. As it was in a thread where Fred announced his candidacy I guess I took this to be the main part of your complaint. Being at least somewhat environmentally responsible, when I saw the response from Felix I recycled some of my response to you to answer his response.

In your original response I did answer your statements about Charles Nelson and Tom Platt in the D1 race. Though as I said, I took this to be a secondary concern. My mistake but my response was already out there when you made your second response in that thread.

As to your comment about Tom Platt, I take exception to that. I've met and talked with Tom on a number of occasions. I've heard him speak at more than one REP forum and he has always struck me as an honorable, straight forward person. I've been fooled by people before but I'd put my trust in him acting in an ethical fashion.

Actually I answered your response about Charles again in a second response after you made the same type of comments about Tom.

If you could prove your allegations then I would agree that it is unethical and illegal. However, barring any proof I'd still have to say I didn't see this type of character flaw in Tom. If you know for fact he did this then you need to contact the SOE. Otherwise .....

Byron;

I try to do my homework before I answer a question. I thought that I answered both your complaints (and I still see two) with honesty and forethought. I don't 'know' Tom Platt. I've met him at forums 3 or 4 times and spoken with him at those and I've read his stuff here on the blogs.

I still don't see any advantage to committing the crime you have accused him of. Would he do it?I don't think so but heck people I've known all my life have done things that I wouldn't have believed them capable of. Would Charles do something like this to provide what he thinks is 'help' to a friend? I have no idea.

But as I said, barring anything other than accusations and innuendo, I'd still give my gut feelings the advantage. I just didn't see this in Tom.

I hope this answers your response. Byron, I'm not a 'politician'. I do however try to be polite when answering questions. However if anyone really ticks me off I can be the most impolite and unpleasant individual you have ever met.

If I'm elected I'm pretty sure that somewhere along the line someone who thinks that everyone should be falling at their feet because they are the most important person in the world is going to find out just how much of a non-politician I really am.

Mike Heemer

The advantage of having a choice in November is that it's more likely to be an actual choice.

Local races decided in a single party's primaries often provide Clay County voters with a choice of candidates, but not really a choice of political vision or philosophy. The perspective of a single party's field of candidates inhibits any meaningful change - even any meaningful discussion of meaninful change - in government's vision or goals.

The homengenous perspective of the one dominant party's succession of vetted, trained and endorsed candidates has ensured, regardless of the names and faces involved, the rentention of a County Commission that sees government first and foremost as a facilitator, not manager, of growth.

Forcing the election of various races into November should offer voters more than just a choice of candidates. It should give local citizens a real choice in perspectives, visions and core government philosophies. That's what Clay County needs, and isn't that what elections should be about anyway?

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Mike:

Let's raise the level of discourse by discussing your observation below:

 "The homengenous perspective of the one dominant party's succession of vetted, trained and endorsed candidates has ensured, regardless of the names and faces involved, the rentention of a County Commission that sees government first and foremost as a facilitator, not manager, of growth."

I agree that there is a real danger that the situation you describe could happen in Clay county, but to-date, it has not.  Not that there haven't been attempts to do so.  At present the Republican party avoids vetting, training and endorsing candidates PIOR to the primary.  There has been (as yet unsuccessful) pressure by some Republicans in the party to do this, and that pressure has come from those  allied with the land developers, large land owners, lobbyists and home builders.  That element in the party depends on contributions from those sources for the candidates they drum up; the current example is Wendell Davis running in the District One race.  His contributions report at the end of July will reflect contributions from the same development, builders and lobbyists' sources that funded Mrs. Fitzgerald four years ago.  This element of the party will push for what you warn us about - "facilitating growth" rather than managing it.  [I beleive Mr. Davis eupheumistically calls it "economic development."]  He has stated that he would also facilitate more growth at the expense of the taxpayers by replacing impact fees on the new growth with new fees on the larger body of taxpayers.

The other two candidates are not supported by that faction in the party.  Mr. McCall's major contributors will be from a much narrower source of political power that usually supports Democrat party candidates - the unions.  But since the Democrat party does not have a candidate in this race, they will support Mr. McCall.  Mr. McCall's qualifications - according to his statements at public forums - include having a "wonderful wife and daughter, having lived in Clay county for over 30 years," and being on the government payroll for most if not all of his life.

Mr. Platt is the third candidate in this race, and he has been the only candidate in his race who supports impact fees on new growth.  He has stated at several public forums that he "opposed corruption, higher taxes and the powerbrokers" who fund candidates like Davis to promote their political agenda of unbridled growth at taxpayers' expense.

Other counties around us are guilty of "vetting, training and endorsing" candidates in order to have them  win in the primary.  And there is a power struggle within the Clay county Republican party to defeat those who have opposed that stance.  Who will win the power struggle within the party?  Those who get out the most votes within the party! 

Thanks for warning us of the dangers of the political party leadership picking candidates instead of the voting population within each party picking the candidates, thus ensuring diversity in candidates selected to represent their parties in the November election.

Write in candidates have very little chance of winning or even poking through the horizon of a victory.  With that discouraging note, i'll say that i commend any write in candidate for entering into a "local" election.  It does provide one more choice and it does drag the campaign out until Nov. allowing the electorate to make sure they feel they made the right choice.  A Dem. would be nice in any of the current campaigns, but since i've seen none, write in's or indy's will work. 

I understand that all qualifying candidates have a right to run with whatever affiliation they choose.  What I have failed to see is how independents offer "more" choices or how they vary significantly from the Republicans, and neither do I see the Republican candidates as being identical with each other.

There is really no organized effort to make all the candidates of the same affiliation look alike thus you have diversity from within the ranks, which is fine, b/c most of the rep. candidates agree on the vision, they just have opposing manners in reaching the summit.  The independents and write in's probably don't vary too much from the republican candidates, as you said this county is 60% Rep..  However, an indy or a write in is free to formulate their own opinions, their own methods, their own views and are not bound to any any terms of one particular party and do not carry the weight of being associated with said party, thus allowing the electorate to have a more varied choice. 

There is only one write in i can vote for and probably will, b/c i do not like the people the future chairman is associated with.  The "Good Ole Boys" and the point of choice is proven, i have another choice.  I have another option and am not limited to only one candidate.  I think more is better.

So does the independent or a write in provide more of a choice, absolutely, and while i like to consider myself a realist and understand that an independent or write in has little to chance, i like the process and the option of choice i am provided with.

Good and interesting blog, and with no computer at the house currently, my last comment until thursday.

Sorry to hear about no computer at the house. I've been wondering where you were. Hope you get that problem solved soon.

Thanks for the comments.

Mike Heemer

If you can't prove what you are saying about Mr. Platt, then you need to not say it.

A great deal of a candidacy is built upon reputation; allegations such as this can be damaging to a campaign and look like a smear campaign.  If you can prove it, shout it from the rooftops, otherwise there is no use talking about it.

Just to play devil's advocate, what if Mr. Platt did decide to "tweak" the situation to his advantage?  I don't believe that would  be illegal, and I'm not sure I would consider it as unethical.  I would consider it as playing to win.

Would Platt fare better among just Republicans as opposed to all district 1 voters?  That is a difficult question to answer, but I think that Mr. Platt would do just fine either way.  He seems to be popular in his district, and in at least one forum he seemed better prepared than the other candidates. 

If you want to go after someone, go for their record and platform, or at least quote goofy things that they have said.

Speaking of Tom Platt and quotes...

I absolutely hate the tag-line that Mr. Platt puts at the bottom of his posts "Winners walk out laughing, the losers cry deal it again."  I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.  There are a number of people on MCS who post tags that I cryptic, and as a childish response to this practice I have taken to ending my posts with the most obscure and oddball comments imaginable.  This has gone largely uncommented upon.  I find this unusual; raise legitimate points about CTLAC or independent candidates and it is like letting slip the dogs of war;write something absolutely insane at the bottom of the page and it's like it never happened.

Tiefer bohren muz men groben, wen men clare wasser will

RAMMSTEIN    

First, I love that angry mouse.

What do you get in Clay when there is an independent running for office?  Yes, you do get a chance to vote for someone other than a Republican, so in one manner that does increase your choice.  If you are a Republican (not a Democrat, not an independent) you get to vote twice, in a primary and an election.

My initial post had two main points

1)If an independent run, that means in the election you will get to choose between just two candidates; if it's all Republicans then you get to choose from however many Republicans are running: in most cases you get more people to choose from if it is only Republicans.

2)If it is impossible for the independent to win at election time, then the Republican nominee will be the winner.

If the Republican primary is closed (because an independent is running) then only Republicans, not Dems, not Indys, are choosing the Republican who will eventually beat the independent.

Since only the Republicans are voting on the eventual winner, then it is just the Republicans that decide who wins.

If only Republicans are running, then the primary is open and Dems and Indys get to vote.  True, their only selection is among Republican candidates, but if the independent can't win, an open Republican primary is the only way that non-reps can get a say in who will eventually hold office.

Let's not lose sight that a vote is a means to an end; you vote for someone because that is the person that you want to hold office.  If your choice is impossible then exercising your right to vote has no real effect.

Of course, this argument rests on the axiom that an independent can't beat a Republican in Clay county. I'm going to wait till November to see if someone can prove me wrong. 

As for the quality of the Republican candidates, I'm still trying to decide who I like.  This is the first year I've ever paid attention to county politics so I don't really have a basis of comparison.  No one has really excited me yet.  I only have until August to determine an informed vote and in particular want to make a good decision on district 5 and Sheriff.

Are candidates beholden to their party?  Probably.  In my opinion there was a great deal of "Republican establishment" activity going on during the Florida primary.  I felt it strange that after the governor and senator endorse McCain, the last REC meeting before the primary featured a speaker endorsing McCain.  I saw a few posters for other candidates but no one else had a speaker.  Could it be that because the governor endorsed McCain that it behooved the county parties to do likewise?  

Felix;

I felt it strange that after the governor and senator endorse McCain, the last REC meeting before the primary featured a speaker endorsing McCain. 

The members of the REC have no choice but to back McCain. It's part of the oath they sign that they will not back anyone except the party choice. That is why you don't hear an IND or DEM speak at a Republican forum.  

If your choice is impossible then exercising your right to vote has no real effect.

Of course, this argument rests on the axiom that an independent can't beat a Republican in Clay county. I'm going to wait till November to see if someone can prove me wrong.

Don't wait. If you like someone for an office other than the Republican that is running then get out there and support them. Contribute to their campaign what you can. I'm not just talking about money, though I'm sure they could use a little extra. What I'm talking about is telling people why you think they are the best choice. Help get the word out. Give them a positive plug every time you get the chance.

Stop with the apathy and negativity about how your vote isn't going to mean anything. Of course it will. It will be one more vote for your choice and one less for the opposition. Be a part of the action. I'll give it my all till the very end. I'd much rather lose 10 to 2 than 10 to 1. 

Just to play devil's advocate, what if Mr. Platt did decide to "tweak" the situation to his advantage?  I don't believe that would  be illegal, and I'm not sure I would consider it as unethical.  I would consider it as playing to win.

You are correct about it not being illegal. But as to unethical? I'd rank that right up there at the top. If their ethics are such that this is acceptable to them and they feel the ends justify the means then I sure as heck don't want them in a leadership position.

If I can score one more point (get 1 more vote) then I'm going to try. But I'm not going to step over the line or skirt the edges to do it. That is not the image of myself I want to see in the mirror.  

Mike Heemer

OK, I now better understand your position regarding the number you referred to.  I see what you are saying and as the saying goes figure lie and liars figure. No that's not a slam on you. I only mean that numbers can be masaged (especially in statistics) to prove nearly anyone's personal point. For example, and definitly not to upset the Fair Tax crowd, the plan claims that under their ideal we would face a 23% tax on everything. However, when you read the book you find that isn't exactly true. It's really a 30% sales tax. This is only one reason I am against it, the pure chicanery it is based on.

So, three Republicans versus two Republicans and an Independent. Is there a difference? Yes, and the most important difference is a more defined choice in perspective and outlook. Mike Heemer, should he best the political machine in November, will be a clear and different thinker and carry a decidely fresher outlook into the BCC hearings than all the others marching in lock step to the Party's wishes, over two or three people adhering to the same party line as the rest of the glee club. I will take that choice any day. The caveat being, this is merely my particular outlook. I am not saying it's the right outlook for everyone. Everyone is different. (Please forgive the ridiculously long run on sentence. I'm exhausted.)

Finally, don't get discouraged with your tag lines. Honestly, I did not even notice them.  I do the same thing and have been doing so since I began, using latin phrases and obscure references for fun.  There are a few of us who enjoy that kind of thing. So, keep going, some of us love it.  It is true, "one must dig deep wells to get clean water".  :>)

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

It's one thing to recognize the odds, it's another to create a self-fulling prophecy.  One of the things that I have learned through some hard knocks in my life and from my Husband is you never give up and you never give in.  You lose when you fail to try. 

For those that sit around and obsess over the odds that an Indpendent or a Write in or a Democrat not making it therefore it's not worth pursuing......lets just say you're not someone I would want to be on a sinking ship with.  We're not talking about trying to beat gravity or death for goodness sake.  One person CAN make a difference, and the odd man out does win. 

I talk to people about local issues everywhere I go and I have found only one person in about 18mths who just didn't want to hear anything about anything.  Most of the people I do talk to actually thank me for taking the time to speak to them, it's not that they don't care, many just don't know what to do....I used to be both.  I'm seeing the difference I am making everyday....we can ALL make a difference and it's a perfect climate for change in the county the way I see it. 

If nothing else Felix, you can find people who are not registered to vote and encourage them to do so,  to learn about not only candidates, but issues we have to make a choice on come Nov so they can make an informed choice. 

The only people who can't make a difference are those who just don't try.  If I have to choose between voting for a candidate that the odds are in favor of, or voting for the one I think is best for the job I will do the latter.  I tend to look for the road less traveled, the view is better.

When I first read your post I thought that were sarcastically suggesting a letter writing campaign, but on a second reading a saw that you were serious.  I would think that it would be independents and third party candidates who would be most interested in making changes to the way we run elections and primaries.  In Clay an independent candidate is at a disadvantage.  Considering the dominance of the Republican party and the number of Republican candidates, I would consider it a better tactic for a person who thought independently to simply run as a Republican and then campaign the way that they want.  An example of this is Republican Congressman Ron Paul; there is nothing Republican about him, he is a Libertarian, but as a Republican candidate for President he was able to present his views to a far larger audience than he would ever have reached as an official member of the Libertarian party.  Also, Paul never conceded his campaign, that means he will back at the Republican Convention, telling people what he thinks.

To bring the matter back home, I think that there are a number of PAC people and political people in Clay who are just Republicans because that is the dominant party.  I would think that rather than running as an independent and trying to win 51% of the vote in a county that is 60% Republican, one could run as a Republican against 2, 3, 4 other candidates and differentiate themselves from the pack by presenting an alternative viewpoint within their party.

In reference to your remark about negative attitudes, I don't believe I ever made the unqualified remark that an independent had no chance, just that it was unlikely that they could win.  However, I'm getting the impression from some of these posts that some of the people who support and vote for independents have a more negative view of their prospects of success than I do. As I said earlier, an independent would have to win all the Democrats and independents and at least 10% of the Republicans; that's a tall order but not impossible.  I've read several comments disparaging the quality of the Republican candidates for various offices, if the general sentiment is that an independent cannot beat even a mediocre Republican then we return to my original position that an open Republican primary does give more choices to more voters.

I am intrigued at your assertion that I am a (republican) candidate or (republican)anti-independent.  These are not the only two posibilities.  It could also be that in real life I am a supporter of an independent candidate, and am intentionally presenting a weak argument against their positions so that they can defeat me and impress the MCS crowd.

"I may be right or may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain."

Judge Barbara Walther, famous not only for judicial arrogance, but also for overstepping her authority and taking 400+  FLDS kids from their parents on the basis of a prank phone call.  opinion at

http://www.christsells.com/id1.html

Felix said in a previous blog:

I absolutely hate the tag-line that Mr. Platt puts at the bottom of his posts "Winners walk out laughing, the losers cry deal it again."  I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.  There are a number of people on MCS who post tags that I cryptic, and as a childish response to this practice I have taken to ending my posts with the most obscure and oddball comments imaginable.  This has gone largely uncommented upon.  I find this unusual; raise legitimate points about CTLAC or independent candidates and it is like letting slip the dogs of war; write something absolutely insane at the bottom of the page and it's like it never happened.

Felix said:

I am intrigued at your assertion that I am a (republican) candidate or (republican) anti-independent.  These are not the only two possibilities.  It could also be that in real life I am a supporter of an independent candidate, and am intentionally presenting a weak argument against their positions so that they can defeat me and impress the MCS crowd.

Felix,

If you could just say what you mean and mean what you say, you would have less trouble understanding the bloggers and they would have less trouble understanding you.  If you want us to comment more on obscure and oddball comments, then put them in English so that we do not have to decide whether or not we want to or have the time to translate them.  As I said, please say what you mean and mean what you say.  Time is short.

Actually you remind me of someone who blogged here for a bit several months ago called ClayScrubDweller whose blogs were like crossword puzzles trying to figure out what they were saying.  Once you took a stab at understanding then they would just add more convoluted statements. 

Your suggestion that since Republicans dominate the political scene that it's better to switch to Republican to run.  To be honest Felix that is part of the same family of campaign tricks that I loathe. 

I would rather see my Husband lose the race while maintaining his beliefs then to see him win because he changed parties just to win an election.  He's offering himself up to serve, if people don't like him just the way he is then it will not bother him in the least to stay in the private sector.  That is why we didn't go get a fancy picture taken in a suit in front of a flag. 

I agree with Read44 100% in his last paragraph.  I'm not here to participate in word games or "lets figure out just what Felix is trying to say".  Taking the time to try and understand what people say only to have them turn around and go "hah fooled you" or "Maybe I'm this or maybe I'm that"... I just don't have that kind of time. 

My intuition tells me you are here to confuse and manipulate.

     I've said all I have to say on this subject, so I think I'm going to beat feet.

     Mr. Catchpole, Mr. Heemer, I'm thinking we might disagree on some things, but I respect your positions. 

     To all, you've given me some things to think about, but this is starting to get ugly.  I promise, unless I change my mind, that the next time I start a thread it will be something critical of local government or the Republican party.  That way we can all be online buds.

        I'll leave you with a joke.

Q.     How many independents does it take to change a lightbulb?

A.      One, just one.  He won't ask permission to change it, he won't put off changing it, and he won't claim it was the best lightbult change in Clay history. 

Fred Catchpole Office 904-771-6852 Cell 904-708-5541

I think the joke you made had to put a smile on my face that will not be removed for days.  Humor presents truth in a way that make more sense and removes the spin career politicians look for when facing a subject.  With your permission I will post your joke again.  The snowball club appreciates it.

Q.     How many independents does it take to change a lightbulb?

A.      One, just one.  He won't ask permission to change it, he won't put off changing it, and he won't claim it was the best lightbult change in Clay history. 

Fred