What a Joy!

Foxx;

Sorry I missed the forum for two reasons. I would have liked to have heard the candidates and I would have liked to have met you. Perhaps another time.

Obviously you are a little biased toward one side but at least you told us that up front. Other than that it was a pretty good report. Thanks for sharing your views. It must have been fun to see and hear.

Mike Heemer

Quite fun to see and hear and yes quite biased, but that's only b/c i finally heard first hand all the MT garbage.  But still i give respect to the process and the debate itself. 

Maybe another time.......yes, would enjoy a chance to  meet you as well, i'm on the links weekly at Bent Creek.  But no worries, i didn't see your opponent there either.

I disagree with Fox.  I would almost say that Fox is code for Rick from his praise for the current Sheriff. 

I remember Rick promised as a Sheriff candidate that he would support the union, try and get better pay for the deputies, make working conditions better, and campaign to eliminate the Clay County Utility Tax that Lancaster worked to get in an attempt to keep from laying off deputies.

Well, guess what?  After he was elected he all of sudden didn't support the idea of the union being the collective bargaining agent for the deputies.  Then for the first time in Clay history the deputies voted in the union as their collective bargaining agent, when under previous sheriffs they never did.  His own deputies don't like him which is evident when the union voted to support MT (the vote wasn't even close), he has stated that deputies are overpaid (not!), he made working conditions worse by driving off quite a few seasoned deputies (heck they can earn more elsewhere), and he sure hasn't been beating his fist on the BCC table to get rid of the utility tax. 

I remember how Clay Electric campaigned for him, I am sure Clay Electric is happy on how that paid off.  I wonder who Clay Electric is supporting this time?

He sends his traffic deputies out to write 30 tickets a day then six months before the election tells to not write as many tickets.He gives money back to the county and then asks for even more money.  That never made sense!He hides in his office and never comes out unless there is a camera to be seen with, unless of course it is about the botched murder investigation, where he gives the press a letter to read about his dissatisfaction with the SAO for not prosecuting.

I don't know if MT or GN would make a better sheriff, but I know he couldn't do any worse than Rick.  Anyway Rick earns alot of money in retirement from the SAO so it wouldn't hurt him to retire for good.  I read in the paper where he gets $7K a month (a nice chunk of change) and of course his $130K as Sheriff.  I think he can make it on $7K a month, heck a patrol deputy gets 1/2 that to live on.

I don't work for CCSO, but from what I've heard from the deputies it is a toxic work environment.  In other words it is a place where you can get hired, get some experience, and then move on to someplace else.  Someplace that pays better and has more opportunities for training and advancement.  I wonder how much the mass exodus of personel over the last three years has cost the SO, more than Rick has saved it I am sure.  I am sure JSO is happy with all the trained deputies they got.

Give MT or GN a chance and if they are no good, then four years later get someone else.  Hey Rick might still be around and want the job.  $130 K is enough incentive to try again.

Well, Fox or Rick, support who you want.  That is what democracy is all about.

In the end, that is all that counts, making the best choice you think is right.

RWood;

I know who Foxx is and he is NOT Rick.

He's just a person that supports the current Sheriff.

He is just making the best choice he thinks is right.

Mike Heemer

After he was elected he all of sudden didn't support the idea of the union being the collective bargaining agent for the deputies.

Actually, he does support the bargaining section.  He does not support binding arbitration where outside officials of the union, out of county and out of state individuals making decisions where he is bound by the terms, would you?

he made working conditions worse by driving off quite a few seasoned deputies (heck they can earn more elsewhere),

Actually, Clay is among the higher end of the salary, all surr. counties exc. Duval pay less.  All public info.

I don't work for CCSO, but from what I've heard from the deputies it is a toxic work environment.  In other words it is a place where you can get hired, get some experience, and then move on to someplace else.  Someplace that pays better and has more opportunities for training and advancement.  I wonder how much the mass exodus of personel over the last three years has cost the SO, more than Rick has saved it I am sure.  I am sure JSO is happy with all the trained deputies they got.

You haven't spoken with many deputies, b/c most couldn't give a damn about the union.  And most support the sheriff.  We have lost 19 dep. since the sheriff took command and not one to Duval.  At least  i think that is what the sheriff said at the debate.  You an MT really need to do your homework better.  Most of what you have written sounds like the same lies the MT campaign is running on.

Well, Fox or Rick, support who you want.

I don't need your praise and permission to support whom i choose.  My name is Matt Birman blog name Foxx.  Get my name right next time and get your facts right, it makes you sound like MT.

Are you kidding? Do you really believe we have only lost 19 deputies since Rick took over? I think the number may be higher from speaking with members of the S.O. Does anyone have the stats?  Also, unions were a good idea (he took money from the fire union last time) when he was running. Did he think that a union would NOT want binding arbitration? Sure he knew what they would want. Why have a union if the Sheriff still calls the shots. He milked the firemen for their endosement last time (but was denied this time because he let them down by not delivering on some promises),

Great points and good arguments.

Actually, he does support the bargaining section.  He does not support binding arbitration where outside officials of the union, out of county and out of state individuals making decisions where he is bound by the terms, would you?

You are absolutely correct. He has always shown that he supports the bargaining section. I do not blame him one bit for not going along with the binding arbitration. That is why we elect a Sheriff. That's what he gets paid for.

The FOP couldn't get that one through when they went through the impasse wickets. And they are still whining and crying about it.

The problem is that if Taylor gets elected the answer to your question of 'would you?' will be yes. And that is why the FOP wants Taylor. He'll look like one of those 'bobble head' dogs in the back window every time the FOP wants something. 

As to the number of Deputies we've lost? What is his point? This is free country. Everyone is free to seek employment opportunities elsewhere at any time. Does he think that the CCSO is different than any other company? You hire new young employees, they get experience and then they look for a different job. Happens all the time.

Even the great Mikey has moved around. If life was so great where he was why did he move? Better job at higher wages and more prestige. The same reasons that others move.

He keeps implying that every deputy that leaves is because Beseler is so bad that people can't stand working for him. I wonder what he thinks the reasons were that people under him left. Or is he trying to imply that nobody that worked for him ever moved on to a new job? I'd find that hard to believe.

Mike Heemer

The jail has lost more than 19 since the Sheriff started and I was told that a Robert Lee left the jail to go to Duval less than two years ago.

I don't care about the collective bargaining or binding arbitration. Prior to Beseler being elected we didn't have a law enforcement agency that was union. We have a union for the firemen and the county employees. The teachers have a union. It has come up before but until Beseler took over it was never voted in. Now we spend time fighting issues that are not crime fighting issues. In the meantime, robbery increased 20.48%, aggravated assault/battery increased by 30.32%, auto theft increased 11.20%, burglary increased 4.9%, and theft increased 2%.

The single biggest complaint I hear from the county taxpayers are their displeasure with the Sheriff and his office.

Shortly after Beseler was elected and during his budget he was in a meeting with Commissioner Rutledge where Commissioner Rutledge was offering to give the Sheriff money (taxdollars) to buy all Crown Victoria's instead of Chevy Impala's.

However, the Sheriff was at the BCC meeting holding a big check where he was giving the taxpayers back 1 million dollars. All while in secret negotiations with Commissioner Rutledge to get his money back.

Odd thing I never saw the Commissioners request Commissioner Rutledge be a liason for the board and represent them in any negotiations with the Sheriff to give him any money. The Sheriff took the money after his big display on the board floor of what appeared to be him returning money with the small exception of the secret negotiations.

Integrity I don't think so. To me this is a misuse of his position, violation of the public trust, and shady for a Sheriff and a Commissioner who are both law enforcement. officers.

In my opinion both need to be removed from office by the voters.

I absolutely agree that people have a right to go elsewhere for emplyment. The problem with Rick's answer was that it was a LIE. He knows more than 19 people have left (for various reasons) why can't he just say that. He can't because he thinks it looks bad on him. This is starge thinking because he himself said that "turn over was a good thing" as he took office. If it is a good thing he should brag about accomplishing something good. Or maybe he realizes how dumb it is and is trying to cover up the correct answer. Either way he misled everyoine at the debate and I bet not one eprson will challenge him on it.Concerning the union. I do not like unions. But, the Sheriff forced the union into empasse and then failed to implement the directions of the special master that HE caused to hear the case. Golly he won a lot more points than the union and he still wants to act like a baby. What the rest of the Sheriffs in the state are worrying about is that this is just the type of case ANY agency's union would love to have decided by a court. Rick is playing with every unionized agency in the state. If he does not win this union battle which may be coming to court, every Sheriff  goes down with him. 

Adios; 

How is it that the Sheriff 'forced' the union into impasse? If I understand things correctly the Sheriff cannot declare impasse. I think that is a union term and a union call. The only force I see is that the Sheriff wouldn't be forced into giving in to union demands. So when he says no enough times they declare impasse.

How did we get from Special Master recommendations to directions? My understanding is that the Special Master has no force of law and cannot 'direct' that any particular action be taken.

Riddle me this! How is electing Mike Taylor or Gary Newman going to fix all of this? If I give you the point that Beseler shouldn't be re-elected where does that leave us?

Angela is getting real close to convincing me that single term limits are the best way to go. The problem is I can't convince myself that either of these candidates is going to be able to do a better job. I'm thinking that perhaps either one of the two that dropped out would have been the best choice.

And so I'm telling myself: "Better the devil you know than the one you don't."  (R. Taverner (1539))

Mike Heemer

Also, unions were a good idea (he took money from the fire union last time) when he was running. Did he think that a union would NOT want binding arbitration? Sure he knew what they would want. Why have a union if the Sheriff still calls the shots. He milked the firemen for their endosement last time (but was denied this time because he let them down by not delivering on some promises),

First of all the max a union or Freaternal order of whatever can donate is 500 dollars so the sheriff dosen't owe his election to a union.  He owes his election to the overwhelming majoity who elected him b/c the people were tired of a sheriff who bought lingerie and trips for a girlfriend wo paying the money back.  I'm sure he didn't think they wouldn't want bind. arbit. but they are not the sheriff and they were not elected by the people, you forfeit your vote cast when you allow other non-elected offcials to make the decisions the sheriff should make, go ahead give up your rights.  Have the union for influence for a representation in the decision making process, formulate decisions, better pay, better benefits etc.  However, the union should not have any other power than influence and representation.  Otherwise in the long run you will have a useless sheriff with no powers other than those bounded by, then say why elect? 

In addition, the Clay County Sheriff's Office employs a Public Information Coordinator who can also answer questions regarding what documents are public record and provide guidance regarding the process and fees affiliated with public records requests. That office can be contacted at 213-6009.  Public records requests can be made verbally or in writing.

Members of the Clay County Sheriff's Office adhere to the guidelines put forth in Ch.119 of Florida State Statute which govern public records. 

http://www.claysheriff.com/00_06_0Report.asp

Link to info. on public record, methinks the MT supporters needs to go check this out.   See how population has increased then tell me if crime has went up or down.  Look at traffic citations then look at how traffic fatalities decreased.  People get pissed that the sheriff is allowing 24K citations, is this not his job, or do we not want a sheriff who does his job, follow the law and no citation will come. 

http://www.claysheriff.com/08_00_00Learn.asp

Here is the link to the learn more page and i think MT needs to learn alot more before lies and false info. are put out.  I counldn't find how many dep. have left, but i will.

I'd hate to think that we go back to the days of old b/c we don't actually like it that a sheriff is doing his or her job.  Lancaster backs taylor and wants nothing more than Beseler the man who put in less money and still kicked his ass, Lan. wants him out, taylor is not a real policeman, he is a lying puppet who distortes information.  Debate is fine, i'll probably never change the mind of a MT supporter and my vote remains with Beseler, but a platform from the opposition in light of the undecided would be nice.   

Adios,

Let's get what Sheriff Beseler said right at last Thursday's debate. His comments were that in the last 3 years, we have AVERAGED 19 deputies per year leaving CCSO and that under former Sheriff Scott Lancaster for the previous 3 years, CCSO AVERAGED losing 23 deputies leaving per year. (That would be an average reduction of 4 deputies per year leaving since Sheriff Beseler took over.)

I realize people only hear what they want to hear. The forum was taped. You can play it back and see. 

19 per year not 19 total, that's where i was wrong, thanks.  Where can one find the tape even though i was there. And do you remember how many if any had went to JSO?

Foxx,

The moderator of the forums tapes them. Contact Leslie Dougher or Darrell New for that information.

By the way, the forum, in my humble opinion, was very well run. I especially liked the addition of rebuttal time.  

Sorry about the mix up in the 19 deputy quote. I was not able to attend (I had duty) and was trusting some elses memory. By the way, since Ridgeview is the media school why didn't they televise live or at least tape the debate for viewers to enjoy on the cable channel?

Not a clue, but as pioneer stated the moderators filmed the debate, scroll up.

If ths is the end of the discussion, it was fine debating.  We'll debate on another thread if so, i think code enforcement is now the hot topic, YAWN!

Not a clue, but as pioneer stated the moderators filmed the debate, scroll up.

If ths is the end of the discussion, it was fine debating.  We'll debate on another thread if so, i think code enforcement is now the hot topic, YAWN!

Adios,

It is entirely possible that one of the forums will be shown live on the cable channel and replayed later. If the quality of the tape is as it was during the last election cycle, you will be quite disappointed. The video was grainy and the audio was unintelligible. The quality was even worse on the it was rebroadcast later in the week.

Foxx,

I am not totally sure that last Thursday's forum/debate was filmed. I do know that there was an audio tape there, however. It is entirely possible that there was also a video.

There's nothing like attending one of the forum/ debates in person. Those of us that have been doing so for years will tell you, however, that minds are not changed in the debates. If you took out all the Taylor/ Beseler/ Newman supporters (groupies), there would have been a handful of people in the auditorium. At least Newman and Beseler spoke to the entire audience, did not pander to the FOP, nor did Newman and Beseler taylor (OOPS! tailor) their answers to what the Union wanted to hear.

Well, no deputies have left to go to Duval, none?

How about Kenny Brown, Nathan Smith, and Cliff Sames?  There are three road deputies right there that went to JSO.  I did hear that Robert Lee from corrections went there, but am not sure on that one. I am not in human resources at CCSO, but I am sure there are quite a few more.  Also if Rick said he didn't lose any to Duval at the debate, he is either uninformed or a liar, because three is alot more than none.  Guess he just mis-spoke, right Foxx.

I've spoken with plenty of deputies.  They don't like Rick and don't want him to be reelected.  Sorry, I went to the first debate and saw plenty of deputies and I even talked with them. The same debate Rick didn't attend because of a "scheduling conflict."  Also if the deputies don't like the union, why did they vote it in, twice by 70% plus majorities?  Remember, there was no union representing the employees in collective bargaining before Rick took over.  I believe under Lancaster the most they got was a 30% vote.  Oh, and they voted in the union again after Rick sent out a letter just before the second vote that might revoke the take home car privilege.  What a guy!

I will admit that Clay pays better than most, but not by much, and several agencies in FL pay more.  Anyway if you have studied management you know why most people quit their job, they can't stand their supervisor, not because of pay.

To say that you are Foxx and not Rick doesn't surprise me.  I was just commenting on your support for the current sheriff.  Anyway calling me an MT supporter is just the same, and I haven't even made up my mind who to vote for.

Oh, by the way, you didn't comment on Rick's support for the elimination of the Utility Tax.  I suppose that didn't happen.  I am going to have to look at my electric bill next time it comes, I am sure it won't be there.

I haven't noticed a Beseler sign in front of Clay Electric lately, by the way.  Last time I think they had a truck with an extension ladder with a banner at the last election.

I have to admit, in reference to binding aribitration, that if I was Sheriff it would be awesome to fire anyone I wanted just because I felt like it.  However, I don't remember Rick making so many exceptions on what he supported and what he didn't before he got elected when talking with union supporters.  I guess it was just more important to get elected.

You didn't mention the tickets either, don't you think it is a little unethical to order your traffic deputies to write thirty tickets a day or they get sent back to patrol.  Oh, yeah, I am sure the traffic deputy I talked to is lying.

Kenny Brown didn’t go to JSO he went to be an instructor at the Federal Law Enforcement Academy in Brunswick, Ga. He makes about 70K a year can you blame him for leaving? Simon Rob went to JSO with the others you mentioned.

I don't know the other two mentioned, but I know crazy ole Kenny. Heck of a nice guy.  He was assigned to the U.S. Marshal Fugitive Task Force in the Jacksonville office while employed with CCSO.

Kenny then took a federal job as an instructor at a federal training center.  I believe it doubled his pay.  Sounded like a good move to me. 

Wasn't this around 2002?  Rick didn't become sheriff until a couple of years later. 

Kenny loved what he was doing with the Marshal's, as a Clay County deputy, who was cross-sworn as a U.S. Marshal.  He left for the betterment of his family.  Can't blame anyone there.

A public records request to CCSO human resources will verify Kenny's date of departure as well as his letter of resignation.  I haven't read it, but he might have stated his reason for leaving. 

Maybe somebody with a scanner can get a copy of it and post it here for everyone to see.

It's all about credibility.

If there's another Kenny Brown, let me know and I will post my public apology for getting into something into which I was in error.

And Kenny, ",,,never hung his hat up at Ktty's place,,,"

First you come on and call me someone i'm not, you distort information similar to MT and you don't support anyone yet.  I didn't call you MT as you directly called me code name for RB, i said you sound like MT, there is a difference, go back to Jr. High scooter. 

I thought i addressed you in an orderly fashion the last time we spoke.  Would love to know why you find it necessary to be a sarcastic fool to prove your distorted points.  I'll try and be as orderly as possible as negative conflict in the blogs leads to no good.  Go about your way, write as you please, i'm convinced August will prove that this arrogant, real policeboy, MR. Distortion code name puppet himself will lose.  I'm off to put up signs tomm.  hope you find someone to support.

Yep, there is more than one Kenny Brown.  I guess I should of pointed that out.  The one I mentioned did quit under Rick.

I know the Kenny Brown you mentioned.  A good man who would always help you out.  I wondered what happened to him.  Good to hear he is doing well.

As far as Fox is concerned I never called him a fool or any other name.

However, Fox sure called me a fool.