cheap shots

Mr. Lyons you made the statement, "the CTLAC is a samll group of people who are trying to control the politics of the county for no other reason then their own power."

First it seems you are unable to debate an issue on the blogs without bashing the CTLAC. Next I would like to know what power the CTLAC is trying to control.

Giving the voters control is not power they get, but power returned to the voters. However your amendments appear to remove that power by making it harder fot the voters to have power over their government. 

Maybe if you could stick to the issues and quit calling the CTLAC names you could accomplish more of your goals. After all the vote for the at large positions passed with a less than 5% margin in the county despite the fact they raised over 28,000 to sell it to the public. Good ideas in county government don't need money for the voters to understand giving up that power such as the amendments you are presenting is self destructive in my opinion.

Roy,

If the CTLAC is a "samll (sic) group of people who are trying to control the politics of the county for no other reason than their own power" please explain what CPVR is?  By your own admission Monday night, you siad you were a very small group (the reason for your mettings by "email").

This may be oversimplified, but I think the only difference betwwen the CTLAC and CPVR is the players and their bank accounts.  The CTLAC may or may not get results on their feet and the CPVR may or may not get results with their bank account.

I am sorry my past offends you, you would really be unhappy with what I am doing now.

Roy, again you give yourself way too much credit. I did not say your past jobs offended me, I said I was not interested in them.

Introduce yourself? That would have been 'Hi, I'm Roy Lyons, I'm with CPVR a PAC formed to ......"

What you did was spend nearly 4 minutes trying to impress everyone with your credentials. I've got to tell you Roy, they aren't that impressive. Titles don't mean much Roy. There just letters after a name. Substance Roy. Substance. Now that counts. Unfortunately for you the titles didn't add any.

Roy, your math still lacks some proofing. $.50 per registered voter does come to about $56K. You seem to stop one step short of the total line. You see, if we have 5 instead of 7 the numbers just don't come out right Roy. If we don't give them automatic pay raises every year it gets even worse. I don't know what subject you teach Roy, but I hope it isn't math. If it is they need to pull your cert.  

This blog sounds just like your statements last night. You poor put upon man. Did someone finally get through to you that you may not be such a big fish as you thought you were?

That is another reason people like you irritate people like me. You always come across with an arrogant, elitist, condescending, I'm better than you attitude. As soon as someone doesn't prostrate themselves at your feet or questions your statements it's their fault.

You want proof of the arrogant and condescending attitude? Just read your own closing line. 

smile life is good---- Roy Lyons 

Mike Heemer http://24.23.126.8/ Petition for choice (5 or 7) in Nov.

Reducing the cost for two more Commissioners to a "per penny to the taxpayer per year" example is insulting to the tax paying residents of this county who live on the bottom of the economic scale.  Asking the taxpayer who may not have health insurance or the money for dental bills to pay for those same benefits to two more Commissioners.

It may not be alot to someone used to spending other peoples money, but to those folks out there struggling to keep a roof over their heads and the lights on 52K per year x2 is alot of money. Their benefit package of 26k a year x 2 is alot of money.

That reasoning is insulting to those taxpayers trying to survive. It's insulting to the student who just lost a Teacher who had an extraordinary impact on their lives. It's an insult to the Teacher who now cannot teach. It's an insult to people like me struggling to support not only my own family but to take care of my retired Parents on fixed incomes.  It's an insult to those who have family members disabled from a disease, illness or accident who struggle to provide the right medical care after they've worked to pay their taxes for two more County Commissioners.

 http://24.23.126.8/  The money is better spent someplace else.  Sign the petition to reduce the BCC from 7 to 5

Have any of you tried to get a legislator, US Rep or Senator to listen and help with a problem if you are outside their district?  First question you'll be asked is your address or where do you live.  If you are in another's district, you'll be told who it is and to take it to your representative. 

An elected official at local, state or federl level assist citizens with problems in their district.    It's done that way so population is more evently divided among those elected to represent us.  Reapportionment is based on population.

Roy,

I love your closing line--"Smile, life is good." Believe me, reading your posts today and yesterday and seeing you attempt to make sense at Thursday night's "debate" and at "debates" in the past does cause me to smile BRIEFLY. Then I come to my senses and realize that your goal and intent of your amendments appear "obstructionist" at best. If we vote "yes" on all amendments, won't everything just be tied up in court? OH! WAIT! Maybe THAT"S CPVR's goal!

You whined on one of the blogs or replies today that the audience was "not really open to the ideas I present". So?? Do you think it was easy for Mrs. Padgett? Do you think she knew the format any better than you? Was she shown favoritism and given more time to make her points and rebuttals than you? 

I  am sure that Mrs. Padgett felt under the same pressure you were under. The difference is she was pleasant, logical, and did not attack you and your group. She presented CTLAC's amendments, would have loved to have had more time to HIT that ball out of the park that Wainmed mentioned. Instead, she did the best she could under the format of the forum and remained a well respected lady, despite your person attacks on CTLAC Thursday night, on the blogs by you and your cohorts, and  at other forums where your side is so often invited to make a presentation. 

You say that CTLAC is a small group of people who are trying to control the politics of the county for no other reason than their own power. It's statements like this that keep many of us smiling, Roy. CTLAC has worked tirelessly since 1999 to bring responsible government to Clay County and keep a system of checks and balances in the workings of our government. Our goal is better government and a government of the people, by the people, and for the people of Clay County.  Our smiles will be brief, even though your blogs and presentations are amusing, because there's work to be done.  (I guess CTLAC must be over the correct targets, because they surely do get a lot of flack from people with power to lose.)

In a gesture of good will, Roy, I am sure that when you are asked to speak at another function, you will contact Mrs. Padgett so that CTLAC can provide an opposing view. It's a lot harder to present when the audience is diverse, isn't it? You, EAR, CRC, and CPVR are better suited  to captive audiences of like mind ( That would be Chamber of Commerce, growth industry, CRC friends, BCC, etc...), but I am sure that you would want both sides to be heard.

I'll end now, but I'm not smiling because I think I must have hit on something in my first paragraph. Hmmm... Is the goal of the CPVR and their 2 amendments meant to cause everything to be tied up in court after the Nov. election?? Hmmm... "Obstructionist" indeed. 

If there are no "at large" districts why did the guy running for District 1 send me a donation letter?  I live in District 4

Just curious.  It doesn't really fit but I had to ask.  I'm thinking we should get rid of all the Commissioners.  They do absolutely nothing.  Oops I forgot their politicians.  We sit here wondering why we are adding 2 at large sets while our very county crumbles before our eye's.  All the main thoroughfares in our county are quickly deteriorating and we soon will be driving through more potholes then the law should allow.  220/209/220A(Old Jennings Road) Brannon Field.  All of them.  Rutledge once said he wanted to pave more roads in his district.  I'd just like fixed roads.  What exactly does the County Road Department do other then cut the freaken grass?  The CC hired Fritz to do something and that was to manage this county.  I don't see it happening, yet we pay him 100K a year.  

I'm thinking this month the moritorium on the rezoning ends yet there's probably a good 5K acres off Longbay that has been totally stripped thats just sitting there now going on 2 years.  That developer built a road to intersect 21 and thats it.  Nothing else done.  There was another developement started on  Longbay closer to Old Jennings Road where that developer didn't do a thing but strip it and let it sit just to fence it off 2 years later.  More destroyed land.  News Flash "The Housing Markets down" yet I don't see the county taking any measures with the destruction of that property.

Sorry got way off note.   Couldn't stop. We need to revoke the 2 at large skin and bones that will occupy county space on a part time bases.  Wish I had a part time job for 50K.

In reading this blog it appears there were no new friends made with the debate.  Much the same as the rally of a few people to stand behind personal political agendas within the Ravines and champion the cause to have the course closed.

Instead of bringing a Y to our neighborhood how about cleaning up our back yards and getting us our golf course back.  You and a few others championed the closing of the course, what are you doing to champion the re-opening of it or is that not as important as being the head of the flock to close it???

 Smile- life is good.  mmmm.  My understanding is you put your house on the market to sell in the Ravines and you do not overlook a hole.

I agree with finder.  It would be really good to see you do something that has a positive outcome for someone other than a SMALL group of people. do you have a few examples of this to share??  Man of the people that you are!

past political activities- tell us about a few that we can be proud of. I googled the republican party, your name and clay county and got nothing other than and article from the flemingmessenger chastizing you for how to spend our money??

If I should, by chance, agree to another debate with Mrs. Padgett, I would like, as she was, be informed ofthe questions in advance and have ready an answer.

Rlyons

FYI - I do not over look a hole in the Ravines.  I used to over look THREE holes!  When I moved into the Ravines my backyard overlooked the par three course.  It was beyond beautiful!  Now, it is a field of weeds that are moving at an increasing regularity to my back yard.    My house is not for sale.  My part in the Ravines issue has only been to bring back the course as it was previously and not have a mulitude of homes built on the  course instead.   You have a problem with the Ravines? Call Mr. Ken DeBusk!Rlyons

I MUST preface my remarks by saying I am NOT a fan of the two additional seats on the BCC.  I voted AGAINST them last time, I will vote to get rid of them this time. 

However, I thought that that it appeared that one side must have been given some advance notice and it was not you that had the notice RLyons. I thought (and so did my friend who came with me) that you were set up. 

It was a shame, but even giving you credit for being  blindsided you did not say anything to change my mind, I still don''t see what the county is getting for our tax dollars and an additional layer of government 

I do see a chain of events, (1)CRC members adding the seats even before we saw if the single member districs worked  (2) CRC members running for office (3) Heavily funded campaigns of CRC members.  It is kind of creepy that there probably will be 100K in at least the single member district that Cummings (a CRC member) is running in. Heck, Bradley (also a CRC member) has NO opponent and has 40K

Roy,

CTLAC is accustomed to your attacks, as was evident to all at last Thursday night's CAN forum. Now it looks like you are going to start the same attacks on CAN, the host of the forum? Now you say that CAN informed Ms. Padgett of the questions, but not you? Be careful going there, Roy.

I'm sure you do not look forward to another debate with Jane Padgett or Robert Machala, but I am sure that you will contact CTLAC and in a gesture of good will, ask one of them to present, so that both sides can be heard.

This is a funny picture here. RLyons needs to have CAN prepare him to debate his proposals before a open debate forum.

The proposals were the work of the groups that crafted them. They should have their own talking points and selling points for those amendments. Why they proposed them and what benefit they will be to the voters if they vote in favor of their amendment.

If RLyons needs some one to practice with a have prepared questions and answer list. Then maybe they should get someone more qualified to debate his proposals.

Then when he shows up and does a bad job because he can't answer the questions and then want to say they cheated. That sounds a little grade schoolish don't you think.

RLyon's was unprepared due to his own efforts he did or did not put into the debate.

Personally I don't think I could stand behind the amendments RLyons has proposed if I was an expert debator. That would be due to the lack of substance not the lack of being prepared. 

Well Roy, now you’ve gone and done it.  You have besmirched Clay Action Network (CAN), an organization with a foundation of ethics which would never allow one person to be given debate questions in advance and not the other.  The first SEVEN questions were submitted online and were chosen only a few hours before the meeting/debate.  The other NINE questions were submitted by the audience members as the debate was taking place! 

Jane Padgett makes it her charge to be informed on all issues and is a very capable presenter of the facts.  She had no need to see those questions in advance.  Your ineptness is your own. So now, Roy, you are not only attacking the CTLAC with your snide and whiny comments, but are including the CAN organization as well.  That doesn’t paint a very pretty picture of yourself, your cronies, or your cause, does it? 

Clayvoter - you disappoint me.  You were there and witnessed Mr. Lyon's inept performance from the beginning and thought he was set up? 

Judy B.

Petition for removal of two commissioners. http://24.23.126.8/

By his own admission he states: "Hello, I would like to say that I have not and will not make excuses, I have been in many debates and this format , which I knew about before ,is the hardest for me."

Then he goes on to praise CAN: "I believe the CAN group should be congratulated for putting on the debate and I hope they continue to take an active part in the community, that is what makes our system work."

He may be right about the Blog called Cheap Shots but I might question who's throwing the cheap shots.

Man I sure am glad I am not this guy.

TRUTHHURTS

Roy, I live on a fixed income due to an illness. The money that would be spent to pay two more useless commissioners could sure be used in many other parts of the county budget.

I have an Idea, since an infection could most certainly end my life how about putting some of that money in the Clay County Dental Clinic so I could get a couple of bad teeth pulled. You see Roy I’m not asking for them to be fixed only pulled. I’m not asking for much. Marsha said it best,” That reasoning is insulting to those taxpayers trying to survive.  

It takes an unsatisfied person to make things satisfactory:Winn1955

The reason so many people are against 5/2 is money , what we in our group would like you and others to consider is better gov't.  (WHAT?)

 on two more to better(?)our gov't..why not make the ones we have do a better job? If they can't do a better job for us, remember that at election time.

 They insult us, deem us unworthy to make an informed decision, yet they will be knocking on our doors and telephoneing(sp) us around election time begging us for our vote. We have the memories of a snail, according to them and they use that thought to rein us in till they are elected. Remember the electric tax debacle? They voted for the 10% rate increase on our electric bills, when EVERYONE, Clay Electric included showed up at the meeting to express our thoughts about that. Sat up there smugly and voted it in... and what about the Trash pick up. We as citizens had absoultly no say so in the great trash capade, they wanted it, so we got it.

Better gov't my fat white butt, we don't want anymore gov't better or worse.

Contradictory statements in the same thread, I'm glad I didn't have to search the archive highway to find it. 

This issue has been going on for how long now?  If you consider the reality that it was the CRC that created the two at large positions then Roys been working on this longer then the CTLAC if you want to get technical about it.

No doubt questions can come up that no one ever thought about which could result in a less then satisfactory answer, but I think everyone can deal with "I just don't know, I will have to get back to you on that"  I could have some respect for acknowledging having a difficult time but did their best.  That kind of goes out the door when the statement is contradicted a few days later basically accusing two groups of cheating.

Its not like either run is running for office and there are a myriad of issues, there is only 1, and that is 7 or 5.  Regardless of the format how can you not know how to campaign for what you believe in? 

It appeared to me that CAN was making choices about what questions to use just as the meeting was being started, people were submitting them before and during the debate, how do you give anyone anything in advance in that situation? 

I keep getting hung up on the very name of the PAC, it's just misleading altogether.  I can see no attempt to protect the voters rights at all.  In trying to increase the percentage it will take to remove an elected position they are in essence reducing the power of my one vote over one single issue, elected officials.  To me that violates my rights, it doesn't protect nor ehance them.  At least the CTLAC is trying to increase the percentage across the board for all ammendments which has the appearance of protecting the Charter.  All I can see the CPVR doing is trying to protect the Politicians.   

http://24.23.126.8/Petition for choice in Nov. 7 Commissioners or 5. I say the money is better spent somewhere else in this economy that isn't going to suddenly turn around.

Judy B. I used to say that to my kids.  Sorry you were disappointed,  I want you to know, it was not just me, the person I came with said the same thing and someone who was seated behind me said the same thing.

Regardless of my opinion about "the set up" RLyons was NOT prepared, did not make any valuable points, and did not change my mind.  Jane is always prepared, the hand out was excellent and she did a great job.  It just looked very biased--maybe only because the group was so pro-CTLAC. I stand by comments. (also, for "fair and balanced" I am not a fan of the CTLAC, but they are right  on about this issue)

WINN, (your dental needs) It is very important to get that taken care of--as you have stated.  I believe the UF runs a FREE clinic at it's dental school.  I had a friend who went a few years ago.  Do I remember that you mentioned being retired USN?  If so, you can be a walk in at the base.  It takes alot of patience and waiting (sometimes hours) also if you are a veteran there may be help at the VA on 8th street in Jax or at the VA in Gainesville.  Good luck, I hope you get help.  Hey MCS bloggers you are smart and know LOTS of stuff..any other suggerstions for Winn??? 

You have a problem with the Ravines? Call Mr. Ken DeBusk!

Amen to that!