Fair Tax Fandango (Part 3)

 

Lordy, lordy, are we in for some fun now. I just had to stop reading to give you all my impressions of Chapters 5 and 6. (Yes, through an editing error I did not mention that Chapter 4 was already included in essay number two.) But I’m the one with OCD so I don’t imagine little things like that will bother those of you who are interested in the Big Picture here. Just wanted to let you know that I do err and I am not ashamed to admit it, unlike my harshest critics. As an aside, let me address one of those criticisms now. The point was nearly beaten senseless that I did not agree with the concept of the Fair Tax and that this was wrong of me because I had not read this particular book. I have, of course, read many other articles on the Fair Tax. This book is not the End All on the subject. Other people much sharper than I, whom I respect, have also weighed in on the subject and detailed points even better than I can. It is through their insight I have formed my opinions. But once the whining began that I had not read the Boortz/Linder book and that anything I said was not to be considered seriously, I decided as a lark, to read it and analyze it to the best of my ability and to entertain other readers here. Frankly, my critics are nowhere near as fair as I am trying to be. I openly admit I dislike this “plan” and I am using this pitifully written book to explain how I see it. The critics should just stop trying to censor me and reply in a point by point assessment of my conclusions, something they have thus far refused to do. All they say is “read the book” rather than actually approach the level with a serious discourse. I also have suggested those who are interested should read the book. Don’t take my word solely on the subject. That would be as foolish as taking the author’s word for it solely. How much more fair can I be? Those of you who are following this thread, PLEASE tell me how you feel about these posts and whether or not you agree and what you think.

 

Meanwhile, onto the next two chapters. Chapter 5: The Embedded Cost Of Our Tax Code.

OK, without subjecting you to the mindbogglingly boring bunch of numbers inserted into this chapter regarding production (you can look it up yourself) let me just state that the authors have convinced me that although we do not have a European style VAT, the end result is pretty much the same. The authors ramble on listing many industries and the support industries for them. Again, anyone who paid attention in tenth grade already knows this whether or not they choose to recall it at any time post graduation. They also make the statement that “You’ve already learned of the extensive studies showing that the level of embedded federal taxes in the gods and services we purchase averages around 22%”.  Well, I have read that they claim this is so but I haven’t learned anything they say. Only what the authors say. Frankly, it comes down to (Cue The Fixx) one thing leads to another. I have not seen anything that states definitively that embedded taxes are “around” 22% What kind of economist would even say something like that. Economists are very number oriented. And they are extremely precise.  But in manufacturing something or in providing something, yes, other things will be produced and they will be taxed. This is not a big secret.

Next they move on to the Tee shirt industry to represent their beliefs. Start with an 8 dollar Tee shirt, claim that 22% is embedded with federal tax, remove that tax and voila!, suddenly the tee shirt will sell for $6.24 because with competition comes price reductions. They naively believe that this will happen in a relatively short time because the lure of a sudden surge in profit will be tempered by competition undercutting those who do not drop their prices immediately. As I mentioned previously, this flies in the face of past price increases due to “shortages” of components. As I stated long ago, when sugar suffered a shortage, the price of soda shot way up. Anyone ever note a subsequent drop in prices when sugar was in strong supply again and much lower priced? Not me. How about coffee? Remember the great coffee crop disaster and how much prices shot up? Remember how much it was per pound? It’s still not returned to anywhere near those levels. No, the biggest problem with these assumptions is that it never factors in Human Nature. If a business or corporation sees their customers will continue to pay extremely high prices no matter the cost, there is just no incentive to lower the price.

Finally, they move on to the airline industry and the expiration of the federal airline tax. This lead to some price wars after they found pocketing all that extra profit wasn’t nearly as valuable as increasing passenger numbers by lowering the price by the amount of extra tax they no longer had to collect for the government. While I applaud the attempt, frankly, the airline industry is not a very good example of business. I can not recall the last time any of the large airlines (taxed or not) has turned a profit. Some of the smaller ones have but it has nothing to do with federal taxes. The airline industry is a quaint little deserted island in a sea of economics that makes no sense. And although not turning or posting a profit in years, they still manage to stay in business until such time as another merger is perpetrated on them and all their employees are still paid. I am not even going to pretend that I understand this. But let those of you sharper than I explain it.

  Chapter 6 Bringing American Business Back Home 

If anything demonstrates that these two are “cheesing” their minds out, it is this chapter.

The first paragraph includes the sentence “We’ve also detailed the 22 percent embedded taxes that exist in virtually all consumer goods and services”. Well, excuse me, they have mentioned them and made these claims but “detailed” it is not. Again, this particular book is written at a Middle School level to appeal to those who are not Mensa candidates. No problem there but as a candidate who has passed Mensa exams I find it difficult to get past the vagueness of many of the statements. And no, I never joined Mensa because I just don’t join any group. (See popular Groucho Marx quote.) I still do Mensa puzzles for fun.

Coincidentally, the author drags in the Daimler Chrysler merger and attempts to scam us with the statement that corporate headquarters are (or were) in Stuttgart, Germany because of better tax conditions. This is completely false. My brother works for Chrysler and has for 14 years. He was there when they merged and he is there now when Daimler has left the union. He spent 18 months in Stuttgart bringing the Daimler group up to speed on Katia technology. Daimler had been looking to improve there bottom line. Chrysler needed new financial infusion. Therein became the union. Corporate headquarters remained in Stuttgart because they brought cash and were considered the dominant partner because of it. That’s why they got to choose where headquarters would be. It had nothing to do with taxes. Most of what the authors have written here is Blowing Smoke.

They also attempt to make us believe that there has been a major exodus of fleeing corporate tycoons to foreign countries just to avoid taxes. Yes, I’m sure some may have been some, but really, corporate executives are just as immune to federal taxes as their businesses. They just get higher salaries to offset the taxes and perks to be used at a later time such as stock options. To this end, the authors would have us believe that doing away with corporate taxes would cause jobs farmed out to the third world to come flooding back. Uhuh, no way. Yes, they might save a little by way of taxes but they could never replace third world workers in sweatshops from Mexico to Viet Nam on taxes alone. Those workers make so little in salary and even less in benefits that no treasonous corporation utilizing sweatshops will deign to give them up to employ American workers at higher salaries and benefits. Just not gonna happen. I have sent my brother an e-mail asking for more information on what exactly Chrylser is doing now. You will be amazed to know that their manufacturing facilities are actually making some Volks Wagons. I will add more about this when I hear from him.

Personal aside: Currently, as many of you recall, I have a father with terminal cancer. I have been spending most of my time here in West Palm Beach for the past few weeks and will continue to do so. To that end, let me thank you guys for the entertainment in your blogs. It helps more than you can know.




Submitted by TruthHurts on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 4:48pm.

To Date 102,000 signatures have been obtained and this bill is going to congress April 15, 2008.

I encourage everyone interested to go to “FairTax.org” and cast your vote. If you don't like the idea and beleive it won't work thats ok too. Laughing

Below is just a short list of leading economists and educators that have analyzed the Fair Tax Proposal, and have signed the petition.

Donald L. Alexander
Professor of Economics
Western Michigan University

John Greenhut, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Finance & Business Economics
School of Global Management and Leadership
Arizona State University

Ben Pierce
Central Missouri State University

Wayne Angell
Angell Economics

Darrin V. Gulla
Dept. of Economics
University of Georgia

Michael K. Pippenger, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Economics
University of Alaska

Jim Araji
Professor of Agricultural Economics
University of Idaho

Jon Halvorson
Assistant Professor of Economics
Indiana University of Pennsylvania

Robert Piron
Professor of Economics
Oberlin College

Ray Ball
Graduate School of Business
University of Chicago

Reza G. Hamzaee, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics &
Applied Decision Sciences
Department of Economics
Missouri Western State College

Mattias Polborn
Department of Economics
University of Illinois

Roger J. Beck
Professor Emeritus
Southern Illinois University, Carbondale

James M. Hvidding
Professor of Economics
Kutztown University

Joseph S. Pomykala, Ph.D.
Department of Economics
Towson University

John J. Bethune
Kennedy Chair of Free Enterprise
Barton College

F. Jerry Ingram, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics and Finance
The University of Louisiana-Monroe

Barry Popkin
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill

David M. Brasington
Louisiana State University

Drew Johnson
Fellow
Davenport Institute for Public Policy
Pepperdine University

Steven W. Rick
Lecturer, University of Wisconsin
Senior Economist, Credit Union National Association

Jack A. Chambless
Professor of Economics
Valencia College

Steven J. Jordan
Visiting Assistant Professor
Virginia Tech
Department of Economics

Paul H. Rubin
Samuel Candler Dobbs
Professor of Economics & Law
Department of Economics
Emory University

Christopher K. Coombs
Louisiana State University

Richard E. Just
University of Maryland

John Ruggiero
University of Dayton

William J. Corcoran, Ph.D.
University of Nebraska
at Omaha

Dr. Michael S. Kaylen
Associate Professor
University of Missouri

Michael K. Salemi
Bowman and Gordon Gray
Professor of Economics
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill

Eleanor D. Craig
Economics Department
University of Delaware

David L. Kendall
Professor of Economics and Finance
University of Virginia's College at Wise

Dr. Carole E. Scott
Richards College of Business
State University of West Georgia

Susan Dadres, Ph.D.
Department of Economics
Southern Methodist University

Peter M. Kerr
Professor of Economics
Southeast Missouri State University

Carlos Seiglie
Dept. of Economics
Rutgers University

Henry Demmert
Santa Clara University

Miles Spencer Kimball
Professor of Economics
University of Michigan

John Semmens
Economist
Phoenix College
Arizona

Arthur De Vany
Professor Emeritus
Economics and Mathematical Behavioral Sciences
University of California, Irvine

James V. Koch
Department of Economics
Old Dominion University

Alan C. Shapiro
Ivadelle and Theodore Johnson
Professor of Banking and Finance
Marshall School of Business
University of Southern California

Pradeep Dubey
Leading Professor
Center for Game Theory
Dept. of Economics
SUNY at Stony Brook

Laurence J. Kotlikoff
Professor of Economics
Boston University

Dr. Stephen Shmanske
Professor of Economics
California State University,
Hayward

Demissew Diro Ejara
William Paterson University of New Jersey

Edward J. López
Assistant Professor
University of North Texas

James F. Smith
University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill

Patricia J. Euzent
Department of Economics
University of Central Florida

Franklin Lopez
Tulane University

Vernon L. Smith
Economist

John A. Flanders
Professor of Business and Economics
Central Methodist University

Salvador Lopez
University of West Georgia

W. James Smith
Dean of Liberal Arts and Sciences and Professor of Economics
University of Colorado at Denver

Richard H. Fosberg, Ph.D.
William Paterson University

Yuri N. Maltsev, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
Carthage College

John C. Soper
Boler School of Business
John Carroll University

Gary L. French, Ph.D.
Senior Vice President
Nathan Associates Inc.

Glenn MacDonald
John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and Strategy
Washington University in St. Louis

Roger Spencer
Professor of Economics
Trinity University

Professor James Frew
Economics Department
Willamette University

Dr. John Merrifield
Professor of Economics
University of Texas-San Antonio

Daniel A. Sumner, Director,
University of California
Agricultural Issues Center
and the Frank H. Buck, Jr.,
Chair Professor,
Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics,
University of California, Davis

K. K. Fung
University of Memphis

Dr. Matt Metzgar
Mount Union College

Curtis R. Taylor
Professor of Economics and Business
Duke University

Satya J. Gabriel, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics and Finance
Mount Holyoke College

Carlisle Moody
Department of Economics
College of William and Mary

Robert Vigil
Analysis Group, Inc.

Dave Garthoff
Summit College
The University of Akron

Andrew P. Morriss
Galen J. Roush Professor of Business Law & Regulation
Case Western Reserve University School of Law

John H. Wicks, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus
Department of Economics
University of Montana

Ronald D. Gilbert
Associate Professor of Economics
Texas Tech University

Timothy Perri
Department of Economics
Appalachian State University

F. Scott Wilson, Ph.D.
Canisius College

Philip E. Graves
Department of Economics
University of Colorado

Mark J. Perry
School of Management and Department of Economics
University of Michigan-Flint

Mokhlis Y. Zaki
Professor of Economics Emeritus
Northern Michigan University

Bettina Bien Greaves, Retired
Foundation for Economic Education

Timothy Peterson
Assistant Professor
Economics and Management Department
Gustavus Adolphus College

TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by lilyslore on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 5:20pm.

Thanks for the snore fest, Truthy. I'm sure everyone everywhere is hooking up an IV to get the Jolt into their systems as fast as possible.

As promised, here is more information on Chrylsler. Note how much of a company's technology is spread about all over the world.

 First of all, DaimlerChrysler ceased to exist in July or August of 2007.

Daimler AG sold off 80.1% of its interest to Cerberus in 2007. The new
company is now called Chrysler LLC. 

Chrysler has several contracts with other auto companies. Nissan is
going to be building a small car for Chrysler in South America in 2009 to be
sold under a Chrysler LLC nameplace in South America. Chrysler is building
the VW Tourag minivan in its Windsor Assembly plant in Toronto later this
year, or in 2009.  We also continue to purchase Mercedes diesel engines from

Daimler for use in Chrysler vehicles. I also believe we are using Mercedes
suspension and steering systems in some of our vehicle.

In addition, we are working together with Mercedes, BMW and General Motors
on a hybrid powertrain to be shared by all three auto companies.

We no longer build the Crossfire, but that vehicle was assembled for Chrysler
in Germany on the Mercedes SLK chassis.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman




Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 8:16pm.

Lily, I’m surprised with you having the ability to join Mensa and your brother working for Chrysler that you did not know they had been sold again. That was front page news when it happened. If you really think that there wasn’t a major tax advantage in moving the corporate offices to Germany then maybe you need to retake that Mensa exam.
You keep beating a dead horse about the soda, now coffee, then you give the reason and correct answer. The people keep buying. Neither product is a necessity of life (OK maybe coffee to some of you) but if people cut back the law of supply and demand kicks in. Riddle me this Lily when did we have a blackout of all movie theaters? I remember paying $1.00 to see a movie, now if my wife and I go to a movie and get popcorn, drinks, and one candy package it cost about $30.00. How did that happen Lily? The example you cite from the box that shows how competition worked in the airline industry you dismissed, because it did not fit your views.
If you read my blog as you accuse me of not reading yours I never said read only the fair tax book. I even gave the web address, info about meetings intown. I also said that I read HR25 which was extremely painful, and I’m glad it was only 128 pages.
Lily I understand you have been on this site way longer than me or TruthHurts and you have lots of friends who will stand behind you, and that is good, friends are good. Just understand from time to time you will force me to call you out.
#1 The 22 percent of embedded tax is not a number that Boortz or Congressman Linder made up, it is a real number (average) that all the original studies found that were added to the cost of a product.
#2 Why do you think “Off Shore Corporations” are called tax havens?
# 3 So TruthHurts list a few, and it is just a few of the people who understand economics better than us and they support the FairTax, and you in your mean spirited way try to belittle him/her (sorry don’t know which).

In closing I’m sorry to hear about your father and hope things are as good as they can be during these times.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.




Submitted by lilyslore on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 8:52pm.

Who said I did not know Chrysler had been sold? My brother works there and I read the papers daily. You are a pretty good spinmeister although completely disingenuous.

Why is it considered the beating of a dead horse when it comes to coffee and soda? Facts are facts. I am trying to Keep It Simple.

I stand by the corprorate headquarters in Stuttgart as I related it. The German company bought into the American company ergo they choose where they want to run things from. There was no corporate executive flight to Stuttgart from Detroit. 

I also note to date you have not refuted a single statement I have illustrated. Where am I wrong? All I get is blind adherence to a plan. Nothing you two have said even begins to rise to a level of honest debate. So far all I have heard is that my sex life is deficient. Hope you didn't spend all your entire college years developing that reply. How cheap a shot can you two sink to? Grow up already. 

Honest debate. In case you have forgotten, that's what is at stake here. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. I am open to new ideas but this one stinks. And you two have presented nothing in the arena of ideas. Just "read the book" which I am doing and "get laid". William F. Buckley has to be turning in his grave. Or maybe just grinning and happy to be dead.

Finally. what the heck does movie theaters and ticket prices have to do with anything? The reason they are so high (and when I started going to movies, they were 50 cents) is because special effects are so costly to make up for the fact that there is no longer any intelligent stories told and so few good actors to be in them. And let's not forget how much these actors demand anymore. More power to them I don't care because I do not go to movies.

I think the reason there is so little blogging going on about this subject is people are just too embarrassed by the level of discourse you two have lowered this theme to. I also deny I belittled Truthy but he has been misrepresenting nearly everything I have written without putting forth a single positive note about anything. He just mindlessly follows others. This is why I cherish my anarchist streak. I put my faith and beliefs in no one for anything.

Finally. I have finished reading The Fair Tax Book. What a disappointment. I am probably going to shorten this exercise because the end result is that as I stated from the onset, this is a bad idea. And with so little participation, what's the point? I will be writing my congressman my thoughts and ask him to vote against this plan. It is unfair, unworkable and in no one's best interest. Frankly, the level of naievte is at such a level as to make a Winnie The Pooh story look like The Greatest Story Ever Told.

Thank you for the kind thoughts regarding my father. It isn't easy but then many people know this.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman




Submitted by Angela on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:19pm.

Lily I've been reading all your post about the fair tax. I've not seen anything any different to change my thoughts on this fiasco either. So as you say I'll be writing my congressman and ask him to vote against this plan as well. Thanks for the time you took to read the book and post your thoughts on the blogs.

I appreciate your anarchist streak, and I've been known to have an anarchist streak too. I've been reminded of that on here several times. I put my faith and beliefs in no one for anything either.

In response to the statement by TH, "To Date 102,000 signatures have been obtained and this bill is going to congress April 15, 2008."

In the county it take over 5000 signatures to get an amendment on the ballot. In the State of Florida it takes 611,000 signatures to get an amendment on the ballot. If you talking about the changing the entire tax system with this fair tax idea. You have 3 days and you better get busy collecting signatures if you expect to even be heard.

Lily know we are thinking of you and wishing you the best during these times. 




Submitted by TruthHurts on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:27pm.

I think this is where we all reveiw Fair Tax parts 1-2-3 and see what the truth holds.

I particularly like part two where lilylore uses one of her favorite expressions "nut sack" with a cute little strike through. It's ok for her to use vulgarity but not anyone else. Don't take my word for it all you have to do is go look.

When you weild a double edged sword, one must be very careful for the blade cuts both ways.

Not wanting to continue your book of the month charade is probably the smartest thing you have said on this topic. I will give you big kudos for that.

I too would like to say regardless of our differences, I am very sorry about what your dad and family must be going through I will pray for you all.

TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by Foxx on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 1:37am.

To Date 102,000 signatures have been obtained and this bill is going to congress April 15, 2008.

Thats great!  Too bad we have a proven useless democratic house and senate, where any potential fair tax bill will be killed in the committees, or never make it to the committee.  Wrong time, Wrong BILL. 

It's wonderful that all these highly skilled economic folks have joined in, but it only takes a drop of common sense to read he plan and realize, that the government would be in some serious financial trouble more drastic than now if the fair tax was signed.




Submitted by TruthHurts on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 7:43am.

Foxx

I disagree about the plan not working but thats ok not everyone likes or thinks the concept will work.

I really don't expect that the bill will pass, but I respect the process, and who knows maybe sometime down the line it will get the support it needs.

TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by Foxx on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 10:18am.

I definently agree with the process of debate through congress.  Unfortunately, right now the potential bill won't even get the audience it deserves.  It's kind of two sided for me, i don't like the potential bill in it's current form, but i do believe it deserves the same consideration as others i disagree with and those we and i agree with.  Maybe it will recieve an audience down the road, but even then, some parts about the plan will have to change in order to recieve a signature.




Submitted by TruthHurts on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 10:39am.

Foxx

Well said I agree. Laughing

 

TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 1:42pm.

Lily, all I got out of your book review is a can of soda cost $1.00 Boortz and Linder are idiots and the FairTax is bad, and anyone who doesn’t agree with you doesn’t know what they are talking about.
You said soda went from a dime to a dollar because of  the shortage of sugar at one time and when it came back to full production it did not go back down. First I think everyone will agree it did not go from a dime to a dollar all at once, and second I brought up the cost of a movie thinking maybe you with your Mensa mind could see what I was driving at. All prices go up. .Do you think sugar is the only cost  of a soda?  Back when it was a dime that can was made of steel, what is it made of now, they had horse drawn delivery wagons for their products too didn‘t they Lily?
You say I spin things I only questioned what you wrote, or better yet what you have not written.
Why did you not mention that under the FairTax:
1. Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
2. Insures Social Security and Medicare funding
3. Allow American products to compete fairly
4. Enables retirees to keep their entire pension, no IRA tax
5. Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck, NO taxes deducted ever.
6. Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities.
Yes Lily I know you half way said prebates would not work, I believe because the Post  Office and Government could not handle it. These are the same two outfits that make sure all Military, and Federal retirees get monthly pay. All Social Security, Welfare, SSI, and who know what other hand out group gets monthly checks, I think the Post Office and US Government can handle it.
So once again if anyone has questions don’t take my word for it, or don’t take Lily’s word for it like Angela .do your own research go to www.fairtax.org   download HR25 (all 128 pages) as I did and painfully read and re-read parts of it, put it down and re-read it again, It will challenge a Mensa mind I know. In all the research I have done in the past two years both for and against it there is one main fact that almost always shows up. Those against change the numbers to fit their side, and than say, “see we said it won’t work“. It goes back to the old phrase “be sure to compare apples  to apples, and oranges, to oranges”
At any rate I’m glad this “book review” is over because I was going to have to go buy the book just to point out where I’m sure Lily may have “misread some parts, or maybe missed a chapter, or footnotes.

eople sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.




Submitted by Angela on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 2:23pm.

I did not say that I based my opinion off lily's, yours, or Boortz. I said when I read her post I didn't see anything different than what I had already researched. I hope you do a better job at representing what you are promoting. Than what you are reading and repeating on the blogs.

I have openly stated long before lily's review that I would support the flat tax. I have openly stated before her review that I did not support the FAIR TAX. I read lily's post because I respect her opinion. While reading I didn't see anything different than my own interpretation.

I also stated that I put my faith and beliefs in no one for anything. I prefer to do my own research. In doing so I agree with lily's assessment.

I think you missed some parts of my post.




Submitted by lilyslore on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 7:10pm.

Lily, all I got out of your book review is a can of soda cost $1.00 Boortz and Linder are idiots and the FairTax is bad, and anyone who doesn’t agree with you doesn’t know what they are talking about.

What the heck does Folio have to do with any of this discussion?  

I defy you to find where I wrote any one of these lies you have posted. I have used many terms to describe Boortz, but very little none on Linder. I maybe said  that they are disingenuous but certainly not idiots. Nowhere in this post did I say Coke went from a dime to a dollar and I did not attribute the continued high price to sugar prices. It is purely oportunism that keeps prices high. I think you also noted earlier that I was right about the continued high prices because people continue to pay them. You two really are in dire need of reading comprehension. Finally, I never once said anyone who disagrees with me does not know what they are talking about. I HAVE over and over, urged widespread contributions to the subject. Only you and Truthy have continually attacked me. I have asked you to provide specifics of your ideas. You apparently have none. All you do is parrot this book. Neither of you with your hive mentality has written a single original thought. In honor of this I am renaming you One Of Two and Two Of Two after the Borg in the Star Trek series. I will leave it to you and Truthy who will be number  one and who will be number two.

Again, I can not stress too much that you two take a reading comprehension class. I never stated I would stop writing my reviews. I said I would shorten it which means the next essay will be brief. As to your list of accomplishments you think the Fair Tax will cover, show me one simple example of where that is true and not just mimic the book. It would be nice if all of what you listed could come to pass but the numbers just don't add up.  

I also see now that you two are extremely cruel in your expressions of sympathy regarding my father's condition. I do not believe you have the capacity for kindness. I pity your callousness.

To be continued, I am sure.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman




Submitted by TruthHurts on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 7:13pm.

Lilyslore

I had and have no cruelty in regards to your family and the situation your all enduring. As a matter of fact as I stated before you and your family will be in my prayers. I can't force you to beleive that but it's true non the less.

Look Lily you and I disagree ok, thats all. You don't like the idea. All that needed to be said was I diagree.

I think this whole thing got way blown out of proportion.

Maybe we should just call a truce and let this all go, ok. What do you say?

TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by lilyslore on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 6:02pm.

As stated by One Of Two: Why did you not mention that under the FairTax:
1. Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation

Because it's only a statement of opinion. No proof.

2. Insures Social Security and Medicare funding

It's not been demonstrated to be true. It's only an opinion.

3. Allow American products to compete fairly

Against what? It seems to me most things are already imported from China.

4. Enables retirees to keep their entire pension, no IRA tax

It's not been demonstrated that will happen. It's a statement without back up.

5. Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck, NO taxes deducted ever.

That would be nice. But it also does not rule out subsequent taxes in the future.

6. Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities.

Not really. It may give you some money up front but that is at the whim of the government as to what constitutes a necessity and frankly thegovernment has never instilled a warm fuzzy feeling in me from any of their decisions.

Yes Lily I know you half way said prebates would not work,

No, I did not say that specifically, I said it was pointless and addressed it more fully in Part 4. 

I believe because the Post  Office and Government could not handle it.

Didn't say this at all.  

 These are the same two outfits that make sure all Military, and Federal retirees get monthly pay. All Social Security, Welfare, SSI, and who know what other hand out group gets monthly checks, I think the Post Office and US Government can handle it.

For someone claiming not to have read the book, this passage is nearly verbatim to the what I read. You are either prescient, or attempting to fool the readers. Or maybe a darn fine disciple willing to follow someone mindlessly.  That aside, the delivery system would not be in question. It's the new bureaucracy that would have to be set up to determine how many and how much would be distributed monthly. And we can imagine the cost of that which is sidestepped by the authors. They never mention that part. I see you deleted your previous venomous post. I can only hope you decided to be a little more accurate. The cyberworld thanks you.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman




Submitted by TruthHurts on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 7:49pm.

Congratulations are in order.

That was the best perversion of facts I have seen in a long time. To go so far out of your way the make a dig at someone is very scary. I think your a sick, delusional, and narcissistic person. It’s painfully apparent in your writings. I strongly recommend you seek help.

I could go on and on, and item by item, explaining where you are going wrong. But I will not waste my time or the time of others. If the folks on MSC blogs wish to take your perverted distortions as intelligent analysis that is fine by me.

See one of the major mistakes you make in all this is that you actually think I care. Truth be told, I don’t. In some perverted corner of your mind you think by denigrating a book that I harmlessly suggested some folks may want to read, you have somehow accomplished some great feat. You accomplished nothing.

I on the other hand, I have accomplished something, I influenced you to read the book. I am happy you got that opportunity, even though it was done so with angry eyes.

I believe there is a silver lining in everything including your little book club charade, which brings me full circle.

I recommend anyone interested in alternative taxation issues to read The Fair Tax Book By Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder.

I do hope you continue with your book club, how about your next report be on “Old Yellow”. I would love to see how you portrait that sweet pooch.

I'll see you at the round table. Innocent

Now I am hungry, who wants pie.

That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.Laughing

 TRUTHHURTS




Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Tue, 04/15/2008 - 12:16am.

 My post of last night (Lily,Lily,Lily) which did appear right under your 6:13PM post  seems to have got pulled. I posted it around midnight and just now saw it is missing. Yes It was posted, after I hit the post comment button i verify  it gets posted and it showed up on the right hand side of the site also as a new post. It's odd as all it was, was a detailed response to Lily, and I called her out on some of her lies. I guess it is OK for Lily to say whatever and however she wants to, and about anyone but we aren't allowed to defend ourselves. I will say i wasn't kind to her, but I did not get down to her level, I would have to go rent a backhoe for that.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.




Submitted by Angela on Tue, 04/15/2008 - 12:38am.

Your post did not get pulled you are in the wrong blog. The post you are looking for is in Fair Tax Fandango Part 2 and its still there.

 

Lily, Lily, LilySubmitted by FTDOAAWM on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 12:04am.I suggest you look there if you are looking for your post. You are in Part 3.




Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Tue, 04/15/2008 - 11:48am.

Angela, the reason I said my post was pulled is because of what Lily said in her post of 04/14/08 5:02PM “I see you deleted your previous venomous post”. Since I had posted it right under TruthHurts post of 04/13/08 6:13PM in response to her (Lilys) post of Lies by FTD.

1. Why did she say I pulled it?

2. How could I pull it?

3. If I write something I will not be the one to pull it, I would also like to know what was venomous about it.

4. How did it get put back in an other thread where readers may not see it.?

Maybe it is all just cyberspace working and playing games.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.




Submitted by Angela on Tue, 04/15/2008 - 12:02pm.

If your post is pulled by MCS then the entire blog has to be removed.

The only person who can edit your post is you. Lily can not edit your post. Thus her statement to you and removing statements.

The only logical explaination is you posted it in the wrong blog and then stated lily had it pulled.

Neither one of those seemed resonable to me. I searched for your post and found it in the Part 2. Then directed you to where you could find the post your were looking for.

Cyberspace and games?




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