BCC

Yea, and since he's the only candidate for the job, he only needs one vote to get elected......his.

Now, from what i've gathered on this subject from the blogs and from other sources, the petition was not in legal format, therefore it would be illegal to put said petition on the ballot in it's current form, so it was rejected.  I hope it was rejected for this reason alone, to show that the BCC is not biased towards any certain groups as to put an illegally formated petition on the ballot.  What say you?

It appears if he gets elected that it will be status quo in Clay County politics. His arrogant attitude in why he should not recuse himself from the vote was nothing short of "I'm in power and to hell with you". 

I watched the re-run, he didn't appear to be arrogant, he appeared to think he had a vote as a member of the board.  The issue was not about him directly, it was whether or not the BCC would allow an illeglly formated petition related to him to be placed on the ballot.  It would be a conflict of interest if the same issue came up only the petition had been legally formated.  Now, realistically, an individual who has put a large amount of money into a campaign for this position would of course vote no, but the petition was illegal, therefore the vote was not directly related to him.

JonathanBennett,

I suspect we have a blogger who is logging in under multiple identities. Please check if he/she has more than one blog name.

Thanks.

wainmed,

You know, you'd be far more impressive if you if you came out from behind your blogging name and said the things you said here to Mr. Scruby and Commissioner Bradley directly.

Like the CCSO group, this appears to be a political attempt to sabotage men and women who are running for public office. Good men and good women. If you dislike the candidates as much as you describe here, then please, file your paperwork and join the working ranks of candidates now vying for these positions.

Foxx,

I think you've said it very well. The conflict of interest issue was well researched and presented to a staff member of the Florida Ethics Commission. A commissioner is compelled to vote on every issue before the Board unless there is the appearance of a conflict - which there wasn't and you so aptly framed, Foxx.

Mr. Scruby made it very clear he was not Commissioner Bradley's attorney but also researched the same case law that was cited in the letter from the Ethics Commission because he knew the issue was on the Board floor. After that review, it was his recommendation that Commissioner Bradley vote on the issue. Nothing sinister there.

wainmed,

Yes, Commissioner Bradley was on Charter Review with me and 13 others. And yes, he's running for the position created by the CRC and approved by the voters of Clay County. If that's the only complaint you have about Mr. Bradley's qualifications for this job, I think that's wonderful because you could be looking at a Chairman who doesn't have his integrity, his character or his decision-making abilities. Which Chairman would you prefer under those conditions?

I certainly hope JonathonBennett puts your identity to rest for us...

Karen Lake

His arrogant attitude in why he should not recuse himself from the vote was nothing short of "I'm in power and to hell with you". 

What meeting were you watching?  Bradley explained his position extremely well, from multiple, well researched positions, and had the County Attorney confirm that there was in fact NOT a demonstrated conflict of  interest, and that as a sitting County Commissioner, Mr. Bradley, along with the other 4 commissioners, were compelled by Florida State law to cast a vote.

This situation is unfortunate no matter how you feel about the merit of the petition.  In 2005 a similar incident happened to the Hometown Democracy petition.  The petition was ruled not legal by the Florida Supreme Court, and more than 50,000 signatures were tossed out.  The law is the law.

From what I've heard, the CTLA is going to get after it again and get the required signatures.  From what I've seen - they will be successful in doing so.  I don't think the BCC is going to place this initiative on the ballot under any circumstances.  In my opinion, it would be most inappropriate to do so.

Key, I am not sure why you would call on MCS staff for "back up"  Why should you care if someone has multiple "blog ins"?  It is tacky and cheesy, but should be of no consequence.  If my memory serves me, someone said you multiple blogged in?  Margot? It just does not matter, let them suceed or fail on their own.

As far as Bradley is concerned, you have made clear your friendship and it is nice that you defend a friend.  But if you look from afar, Bradley was on the CRC that created the seat he is running for, there was an opponent but after HUGE amounts of money was donated to Bradley's campaign, his opponent dropped out of that race.  If you are the average Joe or Jane it may seem a bit "contrived" It is apparent to me that he is the "chosen one" of a powerful group of folks.  That doesn't mean that he is a bad choice, just the heir apparent.

As far as Bradley being a bully, Wainmed must have been watching a differnt meeting than I was.  Bradley was mannerly and courteous (as always).  I thought that he should have recused himslf until I relized what they were voting on (the LEGALITY of the petition). After hearing the legal precendent and the letter from the ethics comm. I don't think that Bradley COULD recuse himself, he had to vote.  

I think that wainmed can say whatever he wants just like you can Key, just like I can.

Time will tell  about all of the candidates in all the races--politics is a tough business. Politicians are fair game. Bradley is no different.  He is going to have to take all the comments (fair or unfair) just like any other candidate. Except he will do it with no opponent (so far) and a fat war chest. 

Key, People should be allowed to voice their opinion--just because you don't share it doesn't mean the "fairness police" (MCS staffer) should be called out.   

The flavor of this post is very sour, we all went over this on another post.

It appears to me like there is some blogger double dipping here.

It's one thing to fight the good fight for what you beleive in and another to take the low road and play this kind of charade.

TRUTHHURTS

Key, People should be allowed to voice their opinion--just because you don't share it doesn't mean the "fairness police" (MCS staffer) should be called out.  

Okay clayvoter, lets take my first blog, change my screen name from Foxx to Frank and then i write another blog just like it.  A perosnal attack by the same person just a different screen name, now that's free speech, but as MCS clearly states it's not for here.  If people can't be honest enough to take credit for they have composed good or bad, then they need not blog here.  It's anyonomous enough with screen names, but changing your screen name and offering yet another personal attack blog should not be allowed.  Asking MCS staff to check the idenity is fair, you ask what's the difference and i do to. 

Bloggers,

It looks like we need to schedule a "Coming Out" party for those bloggers who want to own their opinions: clayvoter and wainmed.

Let me RSVP ahead of time, YES, I'll be there.

Karen Lake

Several people on these blog use screen names. Some are never even questioned. Regardless if they do so all are required to be registered with MCS with their real information. If anyone thinks someone is blogging in violation of the MCS terms of services. Then they should contact MCS and bring that issue to their attention.

As far as Bradley, I saw the meeting and he acted the same way he always does. Just as Clayvoter said mannerly and courteous. If some think he's arrogant then they have that right to their opinion. It may be shared with alot more than one blogger.

I think when a person is on a Committee that proposed that position. Then gets selected as the District 1 Commissioner. When he applied for that position it was with the understanding that he would not seek that position. Instead he becomes the candidate for the position he proposed it does not look good on his part to me. But then that will be for the people to decide. I guess they will not really get to decide because he is running unopposed for that position with mega money. As it stands he will acquire that position by default.

People do have a choice in the matter and I hope they will sign the new petition to have the matter put up for a vote in the November elections. Just contact the CTLAC get a petition to sign and get a few extras for friends and family.

As in the words of Benjamin Franklin, "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." If you do not think we need more MASTERS then sign a petition. If you think the system is vicious and corrupt sign a petition.

I don't understand why the BCC should not use their power to place this on the ballot after over 5000 people spoke in favor of letting this matter be revisited.

If the Commissioner will make an ordinance (law) that allows a community to have golf carts based off the signatures of less than 100 people represent by a few then why would they discriminate against 5000 people who only ask this be placed on the ballot by ordinance. Not that it become the laws.

Let's see golf carts on public roads can cause serious injury to humans. It is against the law unless those people are given special treatment and the laws are changed to allow this to occur. It will cost extra to the citizens in the entire county because it will require police services to enforce the laws. Yet only 60 some people can petition the BCC and if agreed by 3 Commissioners it is a law.

Yet over 5000 people can request this be placed on the ballot regardless if it's by the CTLAC on behalf of those voters, the request of the SOE, or by the request to the Commissioners personally. But in the opinion of some,  it would be most inappropriate to do so. I don't understand how they come to that conclusion.

The amendment will only be law if the electors vote to make it so. The voters never get to vote on the golf cart issue which will cost me more taxdollars for the services to enforce.

Avoid the problems sign a petition. If you don't think we need more masters in Clay County then work to change the system. 

Karen/Key..

 I own my opinion or, do  I only have ownership rights if I am out of the blogging closet???? I choose for various personal reasons to be what I am a Clayvoter.  Are my blog entries less viable? less right? less important? 

Yes, clayvoter. When blog entries attack people who can't defend themselves to you, then I believe your blogging identity (or lack of) becomes an issue.

Karen Lake

did I attck anyone?  Who determines what is an attack? and who determines who can or cannot defend themselves? I was under the impression that MCS is open to anyone?

I find that if you are on the "other end" of some bloggers opinions, you are considered attacking or unfair.  Ity seems to be mostly on political topics or politicians.  I guess that is just the nature of the political arena especially in Clay County.

If I have attcked someone--it was not intended. 

Angela;Why is it that you always seem to have to pee in somebody's Wheaties to make a point for your dislike of the 5+2 configuration?Let's see golf carts on public roads can cause serious injury to humans. It is against the law unless those people are given special treatment and the laws are changed to allow this to occur. It will cost extra to the citizens in the entire county because it will require police services to enforce the laws. Yet only 60 some people can petition the BCC and if agreed by 3 Commissioners it is a law.I'm not for sure where you are talking about but golf carts are allowed in EH. How that happened I don't know and honestly don't care. It was like that when I moved there. However, let me say this about your 'public roads and serious injury' statement.You make it sound like they can run willy nilly anyplace they want. That is far from the truth. They are only allowed north of 220 and west of 17 and NOT even in the Publix lot or the lot on the other side of that street. They are allowed only within the confines of the area controlled by the HOA.

I have NEVER seen a policeman have to stop anyone on a golf cart. Nor do I know of any incident when the police or an ambulance had to be called for someone on a golf cart.

Everyone knows you don't like the 5+2, you don't like Bradley because he is running for the Chair and that you dislike politicians in general. That's fine, but why must to continually take pot shots at people and situations that have nothing to do with the issue. I for one get tired of being the bad guy just because someone built more houses than you want, less roads than you want and has passed a vote to have more Commissioners than you want.If the Commissioner will make an ordinance (law) that allows a community to have golf carts based off the signatures of less than 100 people represent by a few then why would they discriminate against 5000 people who only ask this be placed on the ballot by ordinance. Not that it become the laws.The reason is that is against the law and if they do it any other way than by having 5000 LEGAL signatures then they are showing favoritism and letting them get what they want through a back door. And that is just the way it is whether you like of not.The fact is that CTLAC screwed up. If it takes 24 words for a title of a petition then they're blowing smoke. They were trying to sneak something by the SOE and got caught or were just plain stupid.

I think what really has some knickers in a knot is that it was Roy Lyons that pointed out the error. Good for him.  

Mike Heemer

clayvoter,

I'm sure we could start another thread to gain input from other bloggers about what constitutes an attack. I don't know that I have a definitive answer for anyone but myself what constitutes an attack. It was not you I was referring to. It was wainmed who, in my opinion, attacked a county employee and a commissioner. To my knowledge, those folks are not bloggers on this site and therefore cannot defend themselves...fairly or unfairly.

Does that make sense?

Mike Heemer,

What you hear behind you is the sounds of a standing ovation, people (bloggers) applauding your direct communication with Angela. It was eloquent, polite and identified why her arguments are so illogical, on occasion. I appreciate your honesty with all of us, Mike but it's especially rewarding when people call a spade a spade.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "I think what really has some knickers in a knot is that it was Roy Lyons that pointed out the error. Good for him."

And I say, good for him, too.

Karen Lake

Mr. Heemer

I will let the public records speak for themselves:

Discussion regarding Eagle Landing Golf Cart Resolution. 

Committee Chairman Commissioner Conkey reported that Eagle Landing Subdivision is requesting golf cart designation on their streets as is done in Eagle Harbor.  He further advised that all signage will be paid by Eagle Landing.  County Attorney Mark Scruby requested that staff be involved to insure that the signs are posted in the correct locations in the permissive zone for enforcement by the Sheriff’s Office.  After discussion, the committee Deferred action until the next committee meeting to allow Commissioner Conkey to work out issues regarding payment of signs with Eagle Landing, and enforcement with the Sheriff.

Actions of some 60 people who petition the Commissioners. I hope this clears up any question you have.

Wainmed, I watched the meeting twice and didn't see any of the negative demeanor you attributed to Commissioner Bradley.  What I saw was an experienced government attorney who researched the issue and sought guidance from state ethics officials and the County Attorney before casting his vote.

Hardly arrogant from my perspective, I was impressed with the final question Rob asked County Attorney Mark Scruby:  "So the fact that I feel weird about this isn't enough for me to not vote?"

Besides, the specific issue discussed and voted on by the BCC - whether or not a petition of improper form should be placed on the ballot - shouldn't even raise a question of the appearance of conflict for Bradley.

Just to make sure you understand where my perspective originates, I was a strong supporter of CTLAC's now-defunct amendment proposal that would have, if passed, eliminated the job Rob Bradley's running for.  I had hoped Rob would win a seat that disappeared at the same moment his victory was certified.  But that definitely doesn't have anything to do with Rob or his behavior during Commission meetings.  It's just a question of government form, a political opinion.

I didn't see the same attitude you did in Bradley, Wainmed, but I also don't see a problem with you seeing arrogance - and pointing it out - in an elected official.  I don't think calling an official's attitude arrogant or saying they thrive on power rises to anywhere near the level of a personal attack.  It's only an opinion about politics.

I hope this year's campaigns in all the local races are polite, but let's make sure we don't go overboard and end up stifling passion in the name of courtesy, manners and debate over the specific definition of "personal attack."

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

According to the SOE 's office, Roy Lyon's did not detect the error. The SOE's office did. When Lyons asked for the CTLAC's petition, so that he could write amendments directly opposing them , his petition was rejected because it had too many words. ( Lyons and his ilk have often called the CTLAC negative and obstructionists. Is that the pot calling the kettle black?) This in spite of the fact that he said publicly that he was given more than sufficient instructions for composing petitions.

When Lyons questioned the SOE's rejection of his petition, the SOE's office looked more closely at the CTLAC 's petition and discovered the error.

I don't understand the propensity of some folk to discredit the motives of others who simply have a different opinion. Of course Angela has always voiced her opinion on a variety of issues, as we all have a right to do.

It's an old game to try to discredit someone's opinion by impugning their motives.

First let me say I'm very thankful that Mr Lyons was asking questions which alerted the SOE. After the SOE noticed several mistakes in his petition and his requested to review CTLAC. If this mistake had not been identified by the SOE who knows how long the county attorney would have held this without notification to Ms Kirkman of the mistake. This has given the CTLAC the opportunity to collect the necessary signatures that otherwise could have been held until pass the time limit for the CTLAC to respond. The attorney had not place the matter before the Commissioners and he was notified on Feb 26. When the SOE noticed this mistake it was 1 month later. So to Mr. Lyons I personally thank you.

As far as my opinions. I make every effort to research the information and make my opinions accordingly. Some will agee, some will not. I will be more than happy to provide the information that assist me in making that opinion.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about the Commissioners putting the request to vote for the 5+2 to be abolished on the ballot. Nor is it illegal for the Commissioners to make a special exemption for neighborhood requesting golf carts.

What I see is with golf carts no official petition is required. No signatures are required to be validated. Simply a few people asking the Commissioners for a special privilege and will cost the taxpayers for county services to install the signs and law enforcement to monitor and enforce.

Over 5000 people made their wishes known that they would like this to be on the ballot. Regardless of how this was conveyed to the Commissioners by email, letter, phone call, signature on the petition that will not be on the ballot because it was illegal. Their voice and request to revisit this matter is as legal as the request for golf carts.

Angela; 

Actions of some 60 people who petition the Commissioners. I hope this clears up any question you have.

Actually it doesn't answer any questions at all. What is your point? This is the way things get done in a charter county. Was there anyone there that opposed golf carts? Apparently not.

Simply a few people asking the Commissioners for a special privilege and will cost the taxpayers for county services to install the signs and law enforcement to monitor and enforce.

Yes signs have to be posted just like they are in EH. You must have missed the part where it said the signs were going to be paid for by EL and that the staff would make sure they were put up in the correct place. It did not say that there was any expense to the County. There wasn't any for the signs in EH either.

That does not mean that the Police have to be there all the time to enforce it. Kind of like speed limit signs or a new STOP sign. If they see someone where they don't belong they can stop them and issue a ticket. If there are not carts where they don't belong then there is no enforcement required.

Your introducing golf carts into the argument does not make sense Angela. It is nothing but a diversionary tactic to take the spot light off of CTLAC. This was the point of my question. Why do you feel the need to bring up something like golf carts to try to justify your stance on the 5+2 and getting the amendment put on the ballot? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

They don't even fall under the same procedures. The issue is that what CTLAC is asking is not the way things are done legally.

Pioneer;

Perhaps you and Beth Reese Cravey, reporter for MCS, should get together and compare notes. Her story and yours are diametrically opposed.

Roy Lyons, founder of the newly formed Citizens for the Protection of Voters Rights, which wants to keep the at-large commission seats, brought the error to Kirkman's attention on March 25 when he submitted his own petition for format review.

The above is a C&P from the article in today's MCS. Click on the NEWS button on this page and you can read it for yourself. Beth seems to be a pretty responsible reporter. I'd hate think that she put this in print without checking with SOE first.

Did you check with SOE personally or did you get your information from someone who heard it from someone? 

Mike Heemer

There are ways that a Charter County works. The SOE consulted both the State Supervisor of Elections and an Attorney. Both had the same opinion that the Commissioner could place their amendment on the ballot. I don't think both would have come back with the same legal remedy for a solution to the problem if either thought the request to honor those voters were illegal.

If you honor 60 with a request then deny 5000 with a request it must be political. As reported in MCS, Commissioner Bush will not vote in favor of the request. The other Commissioners have declined to comment.

Commissioner Bush will never have to face those voters again. The other Commissioners may see them at election time.

Pi,

You're back. How cool is that!

Let me make a couple of points to your blog:

1) Mrs. Kirkman stated, on record, her staff did not notice the mistake before, during or after CTLAC brought it in a second time. She said she only looked at it after Roy Lyons pointed it out.

2) No, it's not the pot calling the kettle black unless Roy never reviewed his petition again, never took personal responsibility for it and then asked the BCC to bail him out.  If that were the case, then yes, Roy would be the pot.

Glad you're back on board, Pi.

Karen Lake

Angela;

Please! Letting people drive golf carts is hardly in the league of putting something on the ballot for the entire county to vote on. It does not affect the way the county government is run, it does not affect anyone but those that live in or transit EL or EH, it does not cost the county any money.

You are STILL on the smoke and mirrors. Pick an example that truly exemplifies the point that you are trying to make. This one is like picking salt out of sugar.

You are correct about the legality. I did not state that very well. It would have been illegal for the BCC to put that petition on the ballot. It was not formatted properly.

Could the BCC put the new at large seats on the ballot to see if they should be eliminated? Yes they could. But if they do, it would be my opinion that what they have done in essence is to put the petion on the ballot.

If there is some distinction between voting on the amendment that CTLAC proposed and what you are asking the BCC to put on the ballot I fail to see it. If they put an amendment on the ballot to do exactly what CTLAC wanted to accomplish with the petition it seems to me that they would be giving them a free pass.

Mike Heemer

If everyone obeyed the laws then we would have no need for law enforcement in any area. Since that is not the case.

Every time a person is seen violating the laws either in EH, EL, or Penney Farms all places that either have or requesting exemptions to the laws to use golf carts on public roadways. If the police are called and they are out their working a dispute between neighbors or telling underaged kids they aren't allowed on the roadways. Any numerous laws associated with the usage of those cart. Will result in law enforcement being called to settle the dispute. This takes laws enforcement off the streets of the community as a whole. And places them in a specific community with an exemption that does not benefit the entire community as a whole but a few. If you think tragic accidents don't happen see these links.

Leaders are thinking of changing their policies due to this accident

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/08/03/news/californian/21_28_398_2_05.txt

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/deadly_golf_cart_accident_in_san_diego_county

I think if you would like to look at the numerous reports that are available you can google them. I think I've made my point. Of course my same concerns with golf carts may be the reason it was requested he consult with the Sheriff because it will be added responsibility and he will be required to provide enforcement.

However, putting this on ballot does not effect the community as a whole unless the electors decide they want to change the decision they made in the last election. I wonder what the Commissioners would fear from letting the people be heard. I wonder what the CRC would fear from letting the people be heard.

Putting in on the ballot gives everyone in Clay County a chance to make the decision. This will not be the decision of the Commissioners but the decision of the voters.

If this had passed by a landslide in the last election. I would feel different. However, 25,000 yes and 23,000 no.  

The only decision the Commissioners will decide is if they want to let the voter have an opportunity to decide. The final decision will be up to the voter as should most matters.

In my opinion I think the CRC would support the placing of the amendment on the ballot. They are convinved it is the best idea for the county. This would give them complete validation. Especially if it passed with a large margin unlike the last election where less people decided the fate 2000. Than 5000 who took the time to sign a petition but will not make it a law. Only the voters will have that honor.

The Commissioners are not being asked to put the CTLAC's petition on the ballot.

Just because they collected the signatures. The voters are what the Commissioners would be asked to honor. Not the CTLAC but the people who pay their paycheck the voters and taxpayers.

Of course I can understand those who support the 5+2 not wanting it on the ballot. The voters could decide that after 2 years of watching how the county should be legally ran. Which is something they did not have the benefit of at the time they took the last vote due to the Commissioners illegally managing the county. They could vote in a landslide to remove the positions. As Baxley would say, Ouch!

The only decision the Commissioners will make is to put on the ballot. The voters will decide the ultimate fate. But then that may be exactly what they are afraid of here.

Angela - you just wrote my exact thoughts!  I've been wondering all along (even before the error fiasco) why a certain faction is so afraid of the amendment actually being on the ballot, that they had to form yet another group (wasn't being on the CRC enough?) to "protect" the voters. 

I feel as you do that they are fearful that the voters might overturn the narrow margin of "victory" of 2000 voters and take back their government! 

Imagine - five Commissioners each ELECTED by their district voters...no appointees, no seat purchased by outside interest groups, and all working together for the betterment of Clay County.  Imagine! 

Power to the People!!

Angela;Step back, take a deep breath, and read the stuff you are writing and tell me truthfully that it you think it makes sense.A customized golf cart in California, sounds more like an ATV to me.A golf cart accident on Pala Mesa golf course in San Diego. I've played there a number of times by the way and I know exactly how and where he crashed. This was on the golf course, not out in the community. If there is this, if there is that. If frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butt every time they jumped. How about finding some golf cart problems in the local area. The fact is that these problems don't exist.You're still doing pretty good with the smoke and mirrors with stuff that has nothing to do with the issue.I'm pretty sure that CCSO spends more time and effort chasing down Bubba and Bubbette Redneck on their ATVs than they do chasing a golf cart. But that has nothing to do with the issue either.Pick something that is relevant to the issue. You keep skipping that part.  

It doesn't make any difference if the vote for 5+2 passed by 100,000 or 1,000 or 1. It passed. The voters have spoken. The problem is you don't like what they said.

To paraphrase someone elses words:

Imagine - seven Commissioners five ELECTED by their district voters and two elected by ALL the voters...no appointees, no seat purchased by outside interest groups, and all working together for the betterment of Clay County.  Imagine!

Just like the voters said they wanted it. Listening to the voters. Man, what a concept.

Mike Heemer

You know this golf cart concept is a new thing to the county. This is spreading like wildfire because in the last couple of years everytime you turn around. Someone else wants it beause this neighborhood has it. Of course the concept of ATV concerning the make up of the rural county would outweigh the golf carts. The very reason they have banned the use of ATV's in Clay County. It may be something the forward thinking Commissioners might consider. Now that might be a relevant point.

You know in that election they presented 3 amendments.

Let's recap

Amendment 1- 42,896 yes   6615 no

Amendment 2 - 25,472 yes  23,138 no

Amendment 3 - 36,007 yes  11,572 no

I would like to see a margin of amendment 1 or amendment 3 be the final results of something that cost me more in taxdollar because the other amendments do not result in additional cost to the taxpayers. But then I'm not for more government. As I've said above.

As in the words of Benjamin Franklin, "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." If you do not think we need more MASTERS then sign a petition. If you think the system is vicious and corrupt sign a petition.

As for myself I have never worked on, worked for, on helped in anyway to do a petition. I have signed some concerning issues important to me. This time I will contact them and with the help of some of my friends do everything within my power to see that this amendment gets on the ballot.

The only thing they have to fear is fear itself.

Of course the concept of ATV concerning the make up of the rural county would outweigh the golf carts. The very reason they have banned the use of ATV's in Clay County.

Banned the use of atv's in the county?  On public streets?  Take a drive to the burg, clay hill, GCS and keystone, back on the dirt streets, that law isn't being enforced. 

Ben Franklin, great guy, good quote for all situations not regarding the real world.  When i go to the polls for that at-large seat or any other post, i tend not to think of the elected officials as masters or my master, just a generally qualified person to hold that job for the term.  Not all are qualified and then it's a tough choice.  And yes if you don't like something and you're in that majority, then sign a petiton, just make sure your spelling is correct and the title isn't too long.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself", good quote for that time when the entire country was literally depessed.  And almost useless now.

Angela;

Actually I don't think ATVs are banned per se in the county. Only on road ways. Golf carts in contained communities can be a good thing. Especially with gas prices and pollution. Right now I rarely use mine, but when it gets really warm I'll be using it when I play golf. It is a lot cheaper and easier than driving my car and paying to rent one at the course.

Now to the real issue of 5+2. Finally a point that I can understand. I don't agree with you, but I can at least understand what you are saying and why.

I'm glad to hear that you are going to take an active role in trying to get enough signatures to get the amendment on the ballot.

I honestly think it is a mistake to try to get the BCC to put it on there because it gives the impression of preferential treatment. I also think CTLAC is overplaying their hand. I really think they would be better off waiting until next time around.

If the 5+2 is working they can step back and not put it on the ballot. If it isn't they have a much better chance of getting it approved. As it is right now, I think they have caused too much acrimony to have any real chance of meeting their stated goal of getting it back to 5.

It is going to be interesting for sure!

Mike Heemer

They are banned for use in the county unless it's private property and you have a right to be on the property. They have always been banned on the road ways to my knowledge. The State of Florida put in an exemption that county's could opt out of the law about using them. I remember Sheriff Beseler going up there and asking them to opt out on public property.

Foxx, thanks I made the same point about golf carts. If everybody obeyed the laws we wouldn't need law enforcement.

I think from the people in the county I've spoken to and most of all the many (county residents) I work with in Jacksonville. Have told me they would sign a petition just because of what has happened. I found that to be very encouraging because they are usually in Jacksonville when they are working these petitions in the county. I think they have garnered alot of sympathy just because of the issues surrounding the matter and all the attention it has drawn. If I can just get those that travel everyday I would have 60% of Clay County.

Oh Angela, Sunflower....Mike H.

I about fell outta my chair roaring in laughter after reading Angela's post and Sunflower's confirmation! Tears flowed freely down my face in joyful glee...

Let's frame this picture for all of you in blog land:

CTLAC initiates three petition drives to place three amendments on the ballot. One of them permanently lowers salaries to $37k per year. The other raises the threshold for amendments (such as theirs) to be approved by the voter. If approved by the voter, the new threshold will be 60 percent. Do you guys see where I'm going with this?

CTLAC has everything perfectly timed to place this third amendment on the ballot so it only requires a 50-percent approval rating only something happened on the way to the bank. Yup, 5,100 illegal signatures couldn't be deposited.

So now, this group has 60 days to convince 5 commissioners to place it on for them or collect 5,100 new signatures to place it on the ballot because, heaven knows, if it doesn't make the ballot this election cycle, they'll probably be facing that 60-percent threshold next year they want everyone else to face.

Ain't life a beast? Karma, you say? And who's running scared?

Karen Lake

Well key I hope to see that you sign one of the petition too. Just to prove to them you are right about CRC's forward thinking idea, you were right the first time, and you will be right this time.

The amendment 1 we just voted on pass by more than 60%. It was a good idea.

Or at least I'm thick. Of course they don't want to wait. Well Duhh Mike, you idiot. Hello, is anyone home in there?

I completely forgot about the 60% amendment.

Maybe that's why my wife keeps telling me I need constant adult supervision.

Mike Heemer

I read all this once, twice, then three times, and I think this whole topic is going no where.

This is usually where I make my mistakes> When all parties start to get sacastic, and the banter goes back and fourth. The frustration hightens and you say something that everyone wants to jump on you. look whats it's done for me, everyone hates me  

Maybe all involved may want to consider taking a big deep breath, agree to disagree and move on. No minds or opinions are going to be changed, and we are beyond any learning process.

Thats just my opinion I could be wrong

TRUTHHURTS

Truthhurts - well said.  As one of the other CRC members used to say when we would get off on a debate tangent like this, "It's time to stop beating the horse.  He's already dead."

Some might see this whole thing another way.  Karma.

Hey clayvoter,  If you look at the attacks to MY comments and MY opinion in the blog they appear to be coming from the right.  They can only attack those that do not support their views and the weak.

We, the citizens of Clay County, have a right to speak out when we see  what we preceive as not being in our interest or that of the county as a whole.  Need I remind everyone, that this county has been under control of one party for nearly twenty years, builders, developers, Lancaster and the Hall's for even longer.  And look at where it has gotten us (need I tell you).

And I don't need to hide behind anything by posting in this forum.  I go to church faithfully, I'm a professional in my industry, I'm a retired Navy (Vietnam in-country) vet and I also have been known to teach a few classes at a local school.

So, clayvoter keep on steaming ahead 

You don't approve of my having an opinion?  Oh well!

They are "public servants" so therefore, they set themselves up to public opinion on how they conduct business.  And seeiing how I helped defend this country for that right I choose to do so in this particular case.