Fair Tax Fandango (Part 2)
Libertarians: For the most part I view libertarians as essentially a quirky group but generally harmless. Their main reason for being in business seems to be to rid illicit drugs of the “illicit” label. They believe that individual freedoms trump societal convention. I would tend to agree with that belief except I believe Personal Responsibility should be at the top of the agenda. For example, if someone wishes to fry their minds with drugs, be my guest. But upon frying one’s brains don’t send me the bill for care, therapy and rehabilitation. Libertarians may very well agree with me here but you don’t see them triumphing because as a society we do tend to want to help those who are in need even if they created the need themselves. It’s not unlike the Menendez brothers who murdered their parents and then begged for mercy on the grounds that they were now orphans. So from my point of view, we already begin with a set of unintended consequences that we may not be able to control. After all, how much “personal responsibility” do drug abusers have? They certainly don’t give a darn about how their actions affect family members. No, it’s always “just about them”.So, when the Libertarians propose a radical departure in how we fund our government, no matter how inane that government continues to be, I can not help but think that these guys have been “cheesing” way too long.
From what I see, if Libertarians were to be true to their philosophy of free love, free drugs and free of government in most of it’s entities, there are far more important areas in which to begin. But I don’t see that happening.
Chapters 1 & 2 A curious thing about these first two chapters is the in the history of the income tax. Another clever trick used by the authors is the introduction of a factoid thought (by the authors) as too obscure for the general public. I believe the thinking goes, “if I detail a generally overlooked piece of information, no matter how obscure, then I must be recognized as having much more insight into a position than you have” thereby giving the trivia king a modicum amount of credibility above the readers. If it’s true, it also demonstrates to me my position that the authors seek the lowest common denominator in their Tax Cult. They mention that the “The Civil War” was not truly a “Civil War”. This is absolutely true. I learned this in tenth grade history class. A civil war entails one group struggling with another group for control of the government. That is not what happened in 1861. But for the Boortzheads, this is further proof of their Leader’s infallibility. “Oooh”, they moan. “He must be truly blessed with brains. I did not know that”. If they did not know that, they have a good case for a lawsuit for failure to educate against their respective school districts.
Granted, the undereducated who continue to print the school text books are also at fault, so we have a whole other class worthy of a lawsuit. But, the bottom line is simply, it is common knowledge. People like Jim Jones have used this technique successfully in the past to gather together servants. Tell them something they may not know and most will be impressed. Finally, as you may have guessed by now, it has nothing to do with the Income Tax problem we are dealing with today. It is a set up by the Boortz and Linders of the world to hook you, much like a brook trout, by enticing you with superfluous information which is better suite to a Jeopardy match than a thoughtful forum on tax reform. So, the history of the Income Tax is a fascinating one which you can read anywhere else. I recommend it only because I am a history nerd.
The section I found uproariously funny is on page 12. In it, the authors mention how the government pushed the Income Tax in 1894 after a stock market crash. It was called “…an act to reduce taxation, to provide revenue for the government, and for other purposes”. In the footnote Boortz says “that assigning names to mask the true purpose of the legislation is a time honored practice in Washington” Much like dubbing something “Fair” Mr. Boortz, Mr. Linder? Who determines ‘fairness”?
In chapter 2, the authors also get it mostly right in how we came to have regular withholding. Yes, the government always wants more money and they want it as soon as possible. Yes, weekly withholding was born of World War 2. However, he goes on to accentuate his belief that Washington viewed “withholding as a tool to be used against taxpayers…” I’m sorry. I dislike the government for many reasons, mostly because they are inept but even I can not believe that in the midst of a terrible and extremely expensive war being fought on two fronts, that uppermost in the minds of the leaders of the time was the use of withholding tax as a weapon against their own citizenry. Yes, I am familiar with the concentration camps erected for Japanese Americans and yes, I do believe we have always had a racist bent and government is merely the arbiter of acceptable racism at any given time, but to believe they would want to fight a third front of the war with their own citizens is way too much for me. Now, in later years, yes, the IRS has become a weapon against some of the citizenry. Think Al Capone. Was that the ultimate example of (insert favorite example) envy? The government was so obsessed with bringing down Al Capone which they could not do with all the resources of the police and FBI that it took the IRS looking at his bank accounts to do the job. This was one of the most hollow of victories. We will be getting to the main reason the “Fair Tax” has been constructed in a future post which will entail this purpose.
Keeping in mind that the government wants money any way they can get it, and that Fair Taxers claim their tax scheme will snag everyone, including criminals, have you been able to spot the unintended consequence and the fly in the ointment yet? Don’t worry, we’ll get there.
The Myth of Corporate Taxes. (Chapter 3)
Now really, is there ANYONE who ever believed corporations paid taxes? This chapter is only necessary for the truly mentally impaired in the audience. Of course corporations do not pay taxes. They are and always have been chiefly tax collectors for the government. Which means we pay twice. Once for the taxes themselves and secondly for the service charge incurred by the corporation to collect and remit said taxes. Again, I see the Flavor Aid being prepared. (Side note: See? Anyone can come up with a useless factoid to impress those who are easily impressed by trivia. Flavor Aid was the name of the cyanide laced drink, not Kool Aid, used by Jim Jones at Jonestown on his easily impressed followers. Getting thirsty yet?)
Does anyone not see that if we decide to go to a consumption tax that we will still be paying twice? Every single business, those that are taxed now and those that are not, will be charging to cover the expense of collecting those taxes and passing them on. So what’s the benefit? Stick with me, we’ll get to what is really going on eventually. An embedded taxation is not the whole story. Cost of Compliance (Chapter 4)The authors concentrate on the tax forms and how much it costs the country to fill out these forms. When you add up the costs to everyone in the country, yes, it is a huge amount of money. I pay nearly two hundred dollars every year to have my taxes done mostly because I want to stay out of jail. Missing out on 24 or Monk is not an option. However, with a slight amount of misdirection, the authors claim many homeowners lazily opt out of claiming mortgage interest as a deduction. Is this foolish? Not necessarily. Keep in mind that not all government entities are completely inept. They have available to them the best computers and programmers in the world. Formulae are written to cover nearly everything one can imagine and many we can’t. They live for this stuff. For many years we did not do the long form allowing deducting mortgage interest or anything else. Why? Because the formulae constructed made it simpler and cheaper to do the short form. Why waste all that time and energy? Not that we did not double check it, we did. Even the year I racked up over $9,000 in extra medical bills (out of pocket) it was still cheaper for us using the short form. The waste of time on our part is an expense which can not be reimbursed. I only mention it to show that sometimes (and it is a very rare time) that even the government prefers simplicity. So, berating “lazy” taxpayers for not taking every single deduction is another sleight of hand. One thing we can give credit to the Fair Tax folks for is pointing out how much better the Flat Tax will be. No complicated tax forms. The Flat Taxers had, as a show and tell example, a tax form that fit quite nicely onto a postcard. The only thing I disagreed with them on was the percentage. I think 10% is more than enough and absolutely no one would get any exemptions. Going hand in hand with a flat ten percent tax would be a roll back on benefits grabbed by our leaders. Naturally, that will never happen. Before you make a decision about anything, educate yourselves on what the leeches have granted themselves in pay and especially benefits now and after retirement that we are on the hook for ad infinitum. King George III would be envious. I know Al Gore is happier than a pig in slop with what he fleeces us of every year in his retirement. Ask Congressman Linder what he gets. We are now at page 50 and the authors have yet to detail one thing about the Fair Tax. Anyone getting antsy yet? This concludes Part 2
To Be Continued… Related: lilyslore's blog | login or register to post comments | printer friendly version | Tags: corporate tax | history of income tax | Libertarians
Submitted by Key2life on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 11:28pm.
lily, I'm fascinated by your summaries of Boortz-land and the underlings who've set him up for either supreme success or abmismal failure. Please, keep reading and posting your blogs. Karen Lake Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 1:46am.
Lily, People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.
Submitted by TruthHurts on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 8:40am.
FTD Thank you. I am so happy that I am not the only one that has observed this fact. This all started when on another blog folks were talking about taxes, and I suggested reading the fair tax book as a food for thought side note. After I posted the suggested reading, lilyslore jumped right in attacking Mr. Boortz calling him horrible names, and bashing the concept. I attempted to point out the name calling was not called for, and folks should read the book for themselves. Lilyslore didn't like that. As the conversation went on it was uncovered that lilyslore while doing all this hateful speech and bashing of the book and Mr. Boortz, that lilyslore in fact had never even read the book. This is where lilyslore decided she would do all the people a big favor by reading the book for them, and provide them with her I am above you "missives" to clear up this whole topic for everyone. The fact of the matter is, this project is only being undertaken for two principal reasons 1) lilyslore's personal hatred for Mr. Boortz, and 2) lilyslore's strong dislike of me for ever disagreeing with her at all on the topic. It's her little way of putting in digs. The unbiased education of fellow bloggers is not the goal here, this is a smoke screen. This book report project will not be fair, and is not intended to be fair. I continue to encourage folks with a mind, to read the book for themselves and form their own opinion on the subject. Some of you will like it and some of you will not, and thats ok. This is what makes the world go around. But at least you will be informed and not hoodwinked by a bitter person, with a personal agenda. Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.
TRUTHHURTS Submitted by Angela on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:02am.
I like lily and several others who have posted on here never cared much for Mr. Boortz. While visiting with a friend who does listen heard him talking on the radio. I may have a different opinion when I heard him talk. He said he has property in Florida. He talked about how many months he would have to live in Florida to qualify for the Homestead Exemption and get a break on his taxes. He said the only reason he don't want to live in Florida at his home is the Commissioners and government in his area are corrupt. I'm thinking to myself well maybe he's a little smarter than I thought. However, I still can't support his fair tax ideas.
Submitted by lilyslore on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:02am.
FTD, please read the blogs completely and at least take a stab at an intellectual discourse. I have covered what and why I am writing these essays. For you to come in, skim my writings then pass judgement on them with such a lack of insight does both of us a disservice. I made it quite clear to the other I never claimed Boortz or Linder thought up the idea. I see your comments as attempting to deflect the point of the converstion. I never said I hated Boortz. I find him intellectually deficient. A kind of garrulous cult leader wannabe pushing his own brand of Flavor Aid. If you don't agree with Boortz, he considers you stupid. That's as far as I have gone. He is entitled to his opinion and his listeners. I don't really care. The upside of Boortz's success is that it keeps him out of the welfare system. Linder I know nothing about except that he has been suckling at the Big Government Teat for far longer than is decent. But that's how elected officials are. It's like the old Al Wilson song said "You knew I was a snake when you brought me in". All entities are what they are. They can not change. I also stated that several blog members encouraged me to read and review the book because they simply do not want to. I can understand that and I am flattered they think that highly of my opinion. But I also stated that they should do their own research for more of the details. Frankly FTD, I find it curious that you would also think I am a liberal. Again, we have been over this ground several times before. Apparently research is merely a word to you, not an exercise. Many of the serious bloggers here know I have been a conservative all my life. Not like these phonies who claim they are conservative. Being conservative does not mean marching in lock step and taking thinking orders from the current powers that be in right wing talk radio. If you were a long time reader you would have seen my skewering of Andy Johnson, another thoroughly despicable blabbermouth with a microphone who is so far to the left that he intereferes with altimeters when he flies. Attacking Air America is too much like shooting fish in a barrel but I have never heard very much from them as I don't see it as financially responsible to pay for any radio. Pretty much, left or right, they are all the same to one another. Just for fun let's take your statements below. Just to respond to a couple of Lilies statements. She says she worries anytime someone says FAIR, fair for who? Right now the government TAKES my money with no say from me, under the FairTax I decide how much tax I pay. I think that is FAIR. Second she implies that the corporations won’t lower their cost as they will have still have a cost collecting the FairTax for the government. Gee Lily I know you are not biased in your review but did you miss the chapter that said the final sale spot would collect the tax and the store gets a percent of the tax to cover the cost of collecting and processing the tax for the government? Here is more deflection (sleight of mind if you will) on Fairness. You imply that you will decide what to buy and when. Don't you pretty much do that already? What about necessities? You have to buy a necessity. It's why they are called "necessities". Sure there are plenty of silly or unnecessary things we buy for fun, hobbies, or heck, even gifts. What the government has been doing is exactly the same. Again, had you done a modicum of research (there's that nasty word again) you would have seen how litlle regard I have for government in general. If you think a new system such as we are discussing is Fair, fine. I don't. Besides, in two essays I haven't even gotten to the Fair Tax yet. Why are you panicking? As to the part about the store getting a portion of the tax to cover the bookkeeping, yes, I did get to it and I still think Human Nature (ala Friedrich Nietsche) trumps your goofy Flower Power ideals. It ain't gonna happen. I cited (more research for you) a long time ago about all the alleged shortages over the past decades. Take soda manufacturers.. (Pepsi, Coke, whatever..) when sugar was in short supply. Suddenly, a can of soda once costing a dime all of a sudden went to 25 cents, then 50 cents. After the alleged shortage was over, not one single soda manufacturer reduced the price of a can back to a dime. Today that same can can cost nearly a dollar. (Yes, I am aware of inflation but I am trying to keep it simple and on track. The fact is, when corporations see they can get a higher price for something and people may grumble but continue to pay that price, they have no incentive to lower that price. And yes, the next two chapters in the book covers this but I have yet to get to my review. Some of this will be included. You also claim you don't like everything in the bill yet you make no mention of what those things you dislike are. This blog forum is exactly why it exsts. Come forward and participate. There is no need to attack me. I am merely, as I told another blogger, doing this for my own entertainment and bring some information to my friends who otherwise would not dedicate a couple of hours to reading this book. By the way, I also find the simplistic nature of the writing style offensive. But then it wasn't written with me in mind, only for people who love to follow. So, go back, read my essays, comment on specific components and at least attempt to grasp the humor I have inserted. At the end of the day, very little really matters. The blogs are for exchanging ideas. Who knows? Maybe even you may change your mind.
Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman
Submitted by lilyslore on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:11am.
Truthy, truthy, truthy. There you go again. Believe me, I have no hatred in my soul for one such as yourself. Where you got this martyr complex, Ms, D'Arc, is beyond me. Your post is nothing but a sack of turtle turds. It is all lies. Nobody hates you, I would say most people don't think of you at all. I still don't understand why you want to shut down a free and informal discussion of the issue. I am taking the time to actually research something and this for whateever reason has frosted your panties. Grow up son. How are we to evolve if we merely take anyone';s word for everything? I learned a long time ago that Sacred Cows barbecue up just as nicely as regular cows. I never claimed to know everything and I never claimed I was 100% right. I said I would do this as an exercise with a grain or two of humor. I am just having fun. You continue to lie. How many times have you claimed you are never going to read anything I write and yet, there you are. I don't care, all points are welcome in the discussion. Just leave the lies and the lack of originality at the door. Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman
Submitted by TruthHurts on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 9:25am.
I would advise anyone with a mind to just reveiw the postings they speak for themsleves. You assume I am a male "grow up son", you are wrong. I noticed you do that often (assume). I don't wear panties I believe I told you that before you must have forgotten. No lies were stated it's just more of your smoke screen tatics. Maybe you should get Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.
TRUTHHURTS
Submitted by TruthHurts on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 10:35am.
Here is the blog and dialog that went on between lilyslore and myself. Let the readers reveiw and determine for themselves. Is there any name calling here?? Is there any sarcasim here?? Keep in mind lilyslore never even read the book prior to these statements. After this encounter is when lilyslore decided to conduct her book club project where she is going to read the book for us all and give us her unbiased opinion.
Conservative and Liberal and the generation Gap
TruthHurts writes If anyone is interested a real good book to read that may solve the whole tax problem is "The Fair Tax Book" By Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder. In a nut shell the IRS is completely abolished. All citizens pay a flat tax on purchases made at a flat rate of 23%. The more money you spend the more taxes you pay. The richer you are usually means more spent, more taxes paid. poorer less purchases, less paid this 23% is collected by buisnesses and given to uncle sam. The other nice thing about this tax is people that cheat the goverment like drug dealers and folks being paid under the table will still be paying thier fair share with every purchase they make. I know this sounds like an over simplification but if you read the book it is very interesting and good food for thought. By the way Hucklebee also supports this plan.
lilyslore writes I whole heartedly agree. Everyone interested in this topic should read this book. It will describe in great detail what a fraud the whole concept is. Afterwards, feel free to burn certifiable nut sack, Neil Boortz, in effigy. The Fair Tax is exactly the opposite and none of what it predicts will happen. Another really good reason NOT to vote for Huckabee
* how will she explain in great detail what a fraud the concept is when she hasn’t read the book? TruthHurts writes Laughing hard I expected nothing less Lets burn the book too, very mature and very informative. So much for free thought and an exchange of ideas. I think I'll go burn it now. Did you read it??? and if you did and disagree, a simple I disagree with it, would have been more to the point. I wonder if someone came on and said lets burn an effigy of Obama, or Hillary, or Martin Luther King, if everyone would think that was ok too. Seems pretty hateful to me. Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.
lilyslore writes It is a simple disagreement. My (insert favorite deity here), don't get your panties in a wedgie. I think the so called Fair Tax is one of the all time worst ideas ever. They try to con you with the concept of abolishing the IRS knowing full well that will never happen. When it was pointed out to them that the starting tax rate of 23% would truly hurt the poor, what did they do? Claimed that the poor would get a pre-bate on taxes. (Keep in mind, 23% is just their starting point. There is no guarantee this won't increase as Congress continues to give themselves raises.) They pointedly neglect to admit that this would have the net affect of either creating an entirely new bureaucracy or simply telling IRS peons they now have a new job description. In any event, there will never be a net loss of government employees. Boortz, who is nothing but a talking head, wouldn't understand this. His whole shtick is too call people names and pound his own personal views (thought out or not) out on his chest like a gorilla with no rhythm. The beat is lousy and no one can dance to the tune. And in this case, no one should. Like every loony idea that comes up, once you find one flaw, the rest of it will collapse like a house of cards. Note I pointedly stated "burn in effigy" unlike many who oppose political concepts and would like to go to the real thing. Finally, if you're going to steal Dennis Miller's sign off quote, please steal the whole thing. I'm sure he would appreciate the honesty. And it would make you a better person. TruthHurts writes I don't wear panties, and I am shaven clean like a babies bottton, must me the liberal in me. And maybe you should read the book your facts are inaccurate. Just because you shout louder doesn't make you right. Your displaying very mean and hatefull dialog.
Sunflower comes to the rescue and writes TruthHurts: I don't think you've been around long enough to realize that when it comes to politics, religion, and anything else that doesn't have common sense or logic attached to it, this is Lily - you never have to wonder what she's thinking or feeling. I for one, am impressed as well as amused by her "rantings". I agree with her the majority of the time, and always make it a point to read anything with her "angry rat" avatar as it is an adventure on the blogs. Her soft side is when she's discussing the kids and her classes, and her family. I look forward to meeting her in person one of these days, as she often 'speaks for me' and I would love to have her way with words...seriously. TH - I'm fairly sure you'll disagree with me on everything since I am obviously one of those awful liberals. However, I believe in less government, and that we should be taking care of each other rather than having political morons in charge of our lives. This administration is the worst thing that ever happened in my lifetime to this country. The fewer laws the better, and fewer politicians telling us how to live our lives would be my choice. To put liberals into a box is as unfair as putting conservatives in a box - we are all human, and have our individual rights and opinions (so far). Thanks,
TruthHurts writes I think lily is a big girl and can speak for herself. I am happy she has a friend like you that is willing to jump to her defence. Unlike you I do not subscribe to that fact that simply because the blog is being posted by lily, that common sense, logic, politics, or anything else, is the flavor of the day bathed in truth. Lily has her own agenda and her own beliefs and that is great I would never deny her that. I do not pray to the godess lily and also have my own views. When I suggest to a friend they may want to read a book. I do not taint what that person will read, or give them positive or negative input. I want that friend to read that book and come to thier own conclusions. Then discuss those in an adult way after they have finished. It's a great process.Thats what free thinking and education is all about. With her last blog all she did was taint a concept to have people go out and read a book that she herself has not read, and investigating another side of this issue. I find that to be in conflict with the very concepts she claims to hold so dearly. To add insult to injury not only did she taint the concept of reading the book , she attcked in a hateful manor which I feel is wrong and uncalled for. In my mind this is not condusive of free thought and learning, on the contrary it displays bias, ignorance, and hate. Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.
lilyslore writes RichK/Solo Voce Act which states if I find someone so morally repugnant as a Boortz (in his case, Ann Coulter) then anything they say has no credibility. I am aware Boortz did not invent this scam. It was bandied about by others during the Clinton administration in competition with the Flat Tax folks. My differeces with the Flat Taxers are based on my belief that their starting point of 17% was still way too high but it was fairer than the socialist program put forth by the Fair Taxers. In your blog you do not address the biggest fault in the whole thing which is corporate greed. The Fair Taxers claim that there are 22% embedded taxes in any product sold and that should this idiot concept be adopted, Korporate Amerika will graciously reduce their sale price by that sum allowing retailers to pick up the expense of collecting the taxes to forward on to Uncle Sam. Well, you know the retailers are not going to want to absorb that cost so another couple of percent will have to be added onto the final cost at the cash register. Also, what guarantee is Korporate Amerika giving that they will lower the price by 22 or 23%? None that I have read about. When it comes to human nature always know it will come out for the worst in that natuure. Maybe you are not old enough to remember similar scams perpetrated on the citizenry. Way back in the 70s when you could by a can of coke for a dime, there was a sudden sugar shortage,. This "necessitated" the soda companies (Coke, Pepsi, RC etal...) to raise the price to a quarter, then 50 cents and so on. After sugar supplies returned to normal, Korporate Amerika took notice that even though prices rose in a usurious fashion people kept buying it. So the price never went back to a dime. This happens again and again. Coffee, gasoline, you name it. When these slimeballs see they can rape the economy while using us as the condom, they will continue to do so. Pre-bates are another ludicrous concept. Employing more losers to do nothing but send out near worthless checks just to return the same money to the goverment when we buy something. Anyone else follow this? It is a scam pure and simple. The biggest winners here will be the Post Office.Unfortunately it relies on a high degree of naivetee and trust in Big Business. That way only spells economic disaster. It also never mentions that state taxes will not be replaced by this either so right away in Florida alone, another 7% will still be added making the tax bite a whopping 30%. And that's only for contemporary times. In the future when the government deems it needs more for itself (those congressleeches will never want to work free) that percentage will be revised upward. The whole concept of tax neutral is a fairy tale. On another note, Truth, you act as if I am instigating a personal attack on you. I believe I mentioned this hideous concept first and you began the argument. At no time did I attack you personally. I attacked the bad idea. Boortz, as a quasi public figure is fair game. He is not intelligent and isn't even as amusing and entertaining as Rush Limbaugh. I don't know where Rush squats on this idea because I stopped listening to him when he endorsed George Bush. Also, I had listened to him for about 9 years previous to that and by that time, the schtick got old. It was time to move on. But I still like the most of the man's early ideas. Boortz is a poor pretender to the throne. Talk radio just is no longer an entertaing venue. (Although for penance, self mental flaggelation, I do tune into proverbial whack job, Andy Johnson once a week. I will defintiely rack up many indulgences for that alone.) I also note you continue to use Dennis Miller's sign off without giving credit to him. We established a long time ago that this was bad form. We don't have to agree on everything or even anything but we do have to be honest. SMunsey tried pasting Ann Coulter's writings without giving her credit and when it was pointed out he stopped. I give him credit for his honesty. You should do the same. Most of the bloggers respect anothers work and so when using someone's writings give that writer the credit.
TRUTHHURTS Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 1:19pm.
Gee Lily, I feel so honored that you spent so much time responding to my post in such a positive way. If all the other bloggers could take the time to carefully state their views in a calm and polite manner this would be such a nice site. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part.
Submitted by lilyslore on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 2:49pm.
The parts I did not like about the HR25 are parts that did not affect me at this time, but it could or couldn’t later in my life, but that is me it won’t affect everyone the same way. Well, how much mor precise can you get? You have said exactly nothing. That was not a rsponse to the question. You are as vague as your cult leader. Why do I call you a liberal? Could it be because of phrases such as “would truly hurt the poor”, your dislike for corporations . Come on Lily admit it you have a HILLARY for PREZ bumper sticker. Look, honey, I am sick of telling you that I am no liberal. Conservatism is not defined as following anyone in lockstep who claims to be a conservative, especially not a blabbermouth with a microphone. And what do you have against the poor? Real conservatives are not coldhearted like you. And my dislike of coproations is not germane to this particular conversation. I truly resent corporate welfare if that's what you are refering to. OK Lily people who don’t agree with you are fair game in YOUR book. We aren’t allowed to have our views it must be Lily’s views. Sorry, not going to happen. I don’t care if you don’t like Boortz, Andy Johnson, Air America (and where can you hear them anyway) that is your opinion. My post was to let people know that there maybe, is an other side to the FairTax. I was letting people know that you were just a bit BIASED in your views. The first sentence is patently false. Everyone is more than entitled to their views and frankly I wish more of the bloggers would contribute to this discussion. But you and Truth are obsessed with only your viewpoints and refuse to allow anyone else to disagree with minor deity Boortz. As to the fact that I am BIASED, I formed my opinion of the Fair Tax AFTER I read about it from other sources. So far, in my readings, I have found nothing to disabuse me of what I have previously read. So, having been informed, maybe not to your degree one can not be biased after reading pros and cons of an issue. Have you never watched a debate? And if you are so interested in presenting another side to the Fair Tax, Just Do It. Stop claiming I am biased and blog your own view and why. Just throwing stones at my opinion does not enrich the conversation. Just what are your opinions? And by that, I mean precisely, YOUR opinions. Don't parrot Boortz and Linder. So once again I say to the other bloggers, take the time to look for yourself. As I said before in Clay County they do hold meetings at two libraries, I don’t have dates or times, but I could find out if anyone needed that info. I have said the same thing and I agree with you agreeing with me. This is the whole point of these blogs. Everyone can contribute to the conversation but one hopes they do it in an adult manner. I never claimed that my opinion is or even should be the only one. But how do we have civil discourse if we do not present our cases as effectively as possible. Your deliberately being obtuse does not contribute an iota of insight. Pro or con. Meanwhile, stop the "cheesing" and join the conversation with a contribution. Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman Submitted by Foxx on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 3:17pm.
I'll buy the coffee b/c tax talk will take forever. When will you ultra conservatives realize that the fair tax is not fair and that it will never pass through congress and especially will never be signed by a democrat as President. Lily, if you're a liberal, conservative, communist, ha, i don't care, you have a biased opinion and preconcieved notions all througthout your postings, but that's okay when you're right, the fair tax and the book are about as big a scheme as global warming, so keep pressin on sister. Try the vanilla bean at starbucks, it's to die for, especially if you're a diabetic. Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 8:01pm.
Don't get me started on global warming. All I' say abut that subject is my carbon footprint is larger than Lilys Prius People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part. Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 12:04am.
OK Lily you say I don’t answer your questions, and I spin yours. Let me try to find your level and I will take another stab at this. I had to go get my ladder to reach you Mensa mind now I am ready: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part. Submitted by FTDOAAWM on Wed, 05/07/2008 - 7:27pm.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their part. People are talking about ...Here are the recent blog postings with the most comments. |
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Thanks for a running book report/review. I visited the Fair Tax site and printed the 2 page summary and still cannot say how I feel. I don't think I know enough yet to have an intelligent opinion. (For that matter, some probably think I never have an intelligent opinion.)
I will say that a flat/simple/fair tax seems, on the surface at least, to be "better". The beauracracy of the IRS and the wide variety of exemptions available are just 2 reasons to have a major overhaul of the tax system.
Personally, I think a flat tax rate, with some exemptions for the truly poor and elderly, makes the most sense. A national sales tax seems logical.
Looking forward to more discussion on this issue.