All Out War -Revisted

Truth;

I'm must have a mental block today (again). I'm missing your point.

If this isn’t mean spirited Political Rhetoric nothing is. I am sure the families must love that their loved ones are be accused of these war crimes.

Be careful of what you wish for……..and vote for, you just might get it.

Mike Mann for District 3.??…… I’ll give this much more thought.

I don't see it as mean spirited not do I see as rhetoric. I think it was a well written opinion of what was and is going on.

The proof of Thrasher's idea of truth could be seen in the letter to all those that signed the HTD petition. His blatant lies and innuendo were the worst kind of obfuscation.

Is this to mean that you thought Mike was a good candidate but now you don't?

I wish Mike lived in District 1 or that I lived in district 3. There is no doubt in my mind which block on the ballot I'd be marking. 

Mike Heemer

1. That blog was written before he officially entered the race as a candidate.

2. No where in there do I see the names of his opponents for District 3 which are Travis Cummings and Deborah Terry.

3. He is no more insulting of John Thrasher and others then they were of us to have the audacity to send us all letters telling us we're too stupid to know what HDA meant.

4. As a Journalist I am sure there is a very large pile of articles where he's raked someone across the coals over the years.

Glad to see it wasn't just me. This is way out of context  Especially since HTD didn't even make the ballot.

Mike

Thanks for responding.

I just don't personally like the tactic of using the nasty analogies of, rapist, plunders, ect.

I think it would have served OneMann more, if he simply stated exactly what he was against, why he was against it, and what he planned on doing better. As Mr Magnum often says "just the facts".

I would'nt want one of my childeren, Mother, Father, or anyone that loved or cared about me to read and have those words associated with me. 

As for my vote I am still up in the air.

TRUTHHURTS

Look

With all due respect, you can't have it both ways.

I don't want an arguement here, but anytime anyone out of the long term bloggers club says anything negative it's ok.

When either of you become victims of a home invasion, have been truely plundered and someone you love raped, then maybe you wouldn't find those remarks and analogies so cute.

I know I am not well liked here, and thats ok, there a a few I here I don't like.

But I am here to stay. I will not apologise for the way I feel about these remarks, and am not going anywhere.

TRUTHHURTS

Nothing in politics has an expiration date! Of course, HTD did not get on the ballot but in my limited politcal exposure in Clay County, nothing about politics ever expires.  I had an Aunt who used to say "if the horse is dead, get off"  Well,  folks in and around Clay County politics ought to heed that snappy little phrase. 

I don't advocate forgetting the past, then you may be prone to repeat it.  But the past miseries that people go on and on about really get old.  

As far as Mike Mann and the other candidates in Clay, I am sure they can expect everything they have ever, written, said or done to be scrutinized, debated and exploited.  Isn't it the "American way"? I am sure that is nothing surprising to OneMann being from the newspaper business, at least he will be prepared, so will the incumbents but the new guys--they will look like deer in the headlights.

I don't think Mike Mann meant any of that literally. It's a writing style. I don't dislike anyone on the blogs. I may not agree with their opinions but then that a different subject. It doesn't have to be a like or dislike of a particular person. You just don't agree with their opinion.

If we stopped all free writing styles then we would have killed freespeech.

Angela

I know folks have different writting styles, and I know mine is crappy.

But just for the moment lets take away my emotional veiw on the analogies, and reverse the playing feild.

Lets say that was my posting about someone that the "Long time" fellow bloggers, cared about.

Honestly do you think everyone would just say it's ok it's just my writting style, or would I be attacked?

This is what I mean by having it both ways. I think it's wrong that some get free passes and others no mercy. But I am a tough nut and I am not going anywhere. I can handle it. it's just a secondary observation.

 TRUTHHURTS

TH;

I understand what you're saying about what you like and don't like. I just spent quite a while drafting one of those myself. I haven't seen any responses to it yet and that may be a good thing for me.

Having said that, I'll respond to yours the way that I would hope someone would respond to mine if they felt a need to do so.

I understand your feelings and motivation in posting this blog. In this case I don't happen to agree with your stance but they are your feelings and dislikes and that is allowed.

I really did think it was a well written article. I thought the references to Generals, Armies, raping the river and plundering our resources were quite appropriate. I thought Onemann was very polite about it. He has a way with words that I wish I had.

I don't like Thrasher and his tactics or any of his minions or cohorts. I think he is the worst kind of political figure that will prostitute himself to the highest bidder.

I hope that you read the response from Marsha. Mike was not a candidate at the time of this writing. Since then I have seen and heard him refuse to rise to the bait when people want him to talk down about his opponents for district 3. You'll notice that nothing in this article is derogitory toward any of his opponents even then.

I've met him only once but I can tell you that from his writings and that meeting in my opinion he is the consummate gentleman. Straight forward and truthful I have never seen or heard him participate in the usual backbiting against his opponents that you see in many campaigns.

As for this article, Thrasher is a public figure. The ridicule he receives I think he brings upon himself through his actions.

Mike Heemer

Angela, you like me, i just wiped a tear away from my eye, this is very emotional.

I've met him only once but I can tell you that from his writings and that meeting in my opinion he is the consummate gentleman. Straight forward and truthful I have never seen or heard him participate in the usual backbiting against his opponents that you see in many campaigns.

I too have met Mike Mann once during a presentation to Tom Platt's State and Local Government class.  He is quite straight forward but calm and collect.  He told us about his career in journalism, quite an awesome life he has lived.  He is not a politician which is why it will be an uphill climb for him in D. 3, but honesty and intellegence does not lack from the man i saw in that classroom.  What people have said in the past may reflect their attitudes from the past, but my past is past and words that may be found offensive to some as in this post has past, look forward, look at the person overall, then make your decison at the polls, if i lived in D.3, my vote would go to One Man.

Foxx why would you ever think I didn't like you? What I have ever said to you that would make you think otherwise?

Truthhurts You keep wanting to lump long time bloggers together. I am a long time blogger. I think I have found something I can agree and something I can disagree with every person who has ever blogged on MCS. We are not the same people and we all have different opinions. I am sure the same can be said for me on things I've blogged on MCS.

Thrasher is a public officials. He has openly said he doesn't care what people say or think about him. Don't be so sensitive he sure isn't.

People who are public officials understand that and if they don't then it would be best if they stayed out of the public life and the public light.

I think it's time for a blogging hug.

As long as it doesn't infringe upon my 3ft of personal space. It's fine with me.

Ok

Maybe your all right and I am just having an over emotional reaction. I'll let it go.

But don't take that as a sign of weakness. You all still s*ck, and i'll be watching you.

TRUTHHURTS

I find it very odd that in around two hours after I mentioned Mike Mann in another blog saying that he will not campaign by dragging his opponents through the mud that this blog appears. 

I find it very odd that the man hasn't been here for three days and suddenly he's being written about by pulling a five month old blog out of the blog files. 

I find it very odd that if something so tragic and personal has happened why you would want to put in the spotlight in the blogs?  Why dig something up and put it back out there if it is so painful?

I find it very odd that rather then sending him an email about this five month old blog and how it made you feel you spotlight it in the blogs. 

How do you know what has, and has not happened to other people?  Do you have some sort of crystal ball that tells you that you above all others have suffered the most and worst of lifes atrocities?

What if I told you I too had experienced the things you are referencing but have not shared something so private in a public forum. 

This old old old and tired complaint about "old bloggers" and some ficticious click is just that, old and tired.  Angela was blasted last week for her "whining" and you joined in on it TH, hook, line and sinker, slapped Finder Mike on the back for a job well done and egged Foxx on like a true coach and that was ok,  but now you're crying foul.  This is a repeated pattern with you since you first showed up with all your name calling over the CCAC issue. 

I wonder how long it would take to research all the people you've talked down to here?

We all suck and you feel put upon yet in the same breath declare you're staying and you spend alot of time here. It makes no sense.  If I thought I was hanging out with a bunch of people who I thought didn't like me, and were mean and unfair I would think life is too short to hang out with these people and find something else to do in my spare time.

I've lived long enough to recognize an attempt to manipulate when I see it. 

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong - Dennis Miller

Finder wrote: I understand what you're saying about what you like and don't like. I just spent quite a while drafting one of those myself. I haven't seen any responses to it yet and that may be a good thing for me.

Mike, where is this? I haven't seen it.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

 I find it odd you took my comment " But don't take that as a sign of weakness. You all still s*ck, and i'll be watching you. ", out of context, with the smiley face and all indicating humor. I think I heard that somewhere before.

 I find it odd that even after opening myself up in a way that exposes myself on a deep personal level, that you felt comfortable to pounce, and try to turn things around.

I find it odd you would post such remarks, as to prove my earlier points so eloquently.

All you did was confirm, and no where near negatge anything. But I am sure you will soon get more allies to join in and help turn this dialog upside down.

Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.........Gee thats ODD in the past only Lilyslore made remarks about this comment, small world.

TruthHurts

You said it, or at least the last time I looked you said it but I've learned this week blogs can be edited so who knows what will be here later.  I kept the statements pretty much altogether so just how is it out of context?   

Do you think that having experienced something terrible in the past, and illuded to in general terms aleviates your responsibility for your actions?  

If you have me so well pegged there shouldn't be anything odd about it Sugar.

Nice setup, if anyone else comments in a negative way to your blog then we're all just gangin up on you again. 

So far as your signoff....you're right about that one, she has been the only one. She's mentioned it half a dozen times yet you ignore it which is your choice and it's such a general statement I'm not even sure he can lay claim to it.  However it felt applicable to what I was writing and I merely decided to acknowledge the credit just in case. 

I tell ya what, in the spirit of peaceful co-existence you have my personal promise that I will never again engage you on a blog and you can just have at it any which way you choose.  Having raised three kids I've learned how to tune people out.  How you act is none of my business unless you direct something at me.  I had told you once a few months ago that as long as you could talk about something other then the CCAC then I would engage.  You've obviously forgotten there was a time I tried very hard to be nice to you, and thats ok, but I'm finished....life is too short.  

You know what Marsha, I am done ok. I am not going to go back and fourth with you.

You right, ok. Have a great evening sugar. 

TRUTHHURTS

Who else needs a blogging hug? 

Mrs. Marsha, i'm like twelve compared to you, but could you please follow your own advice and address the behavior.  I rarely agree with anything that you say unless it's factual, but respect must still be given b/c you're smarter than me and older with a young tone. 

TH, bad day for you, join the club.  I'd give you the same advice i gave myself, no more blogs that cause apologies to be made or emotional overhaul statements.  I'm not falling into the crevase of poly. correctness, but if i've learned one thing in one month of blogging, it's don't compose anything that could be offensive to another on a Personal Level.  I'm certainly not on a pedastool, if anything i'm humbled that others would tell me how stupid i can be.  Let's just put this blog into that "box in your brain of things you'd like to forget"-stop loss, the movie, and wait for mike mann to defend, take the heat and move on, blogging of this style (as i've learned) accomplishes nothing.  I'm not trying to break a blogging friendship off, but i think we got started on sinking sand, let's find a rock for the foundation.  

No lost friendship here Foxx. I am done with this thread, and trying to explain myself about it because it's useless.

Have a good night Foxx

 TRUTHHURTS

Lily;

It's about 4 pages deep in a blog titled Politics or Problems. The response is titled Garity.

It wasn't some big personal expose, just a comment about my dislike of all the negative blogs on Beseler coming from a few people. It kind of went along with this one.

I mentioned it here as a way of politely saying that mudslinging was not a good way to go. Especially against a stand up individual like Mike M.

In spite of the personal comments about his feelings about the words Mike used I still felt that the crux of the blog was to slam Mike M for something he composed.

Mike Heemer

Foxx, thanks for waiting for me to defend myself while I wrapped up a weekend of campaigning and NCAA basketball, and my mini-vacation from computer time. But I really don't see anything that needs my personal defense.

I think the original blog was reprinted by TruthHurts, not because of its subject matter, but as an attempt to show what he or she perceives as a double-standard for acceptable blogging behavior. In that case, I just happen to be the example selected to make that point and don't think there's anything personal about it.

Maybe the point TH was trying to make is that some words - rape, plunder, etc. - are more offensive to some people than others, and I certainly would agree with that.

And if it's all just electoral politics in Clay County, well, I should be held to what I've said or written and there's plenty more of that to come before the Aug. 26 GOP primary vote.

If the contention was the subject matter of my revisited blog, that's an issue that has been rendered moot for this election cycle. The Hometown Democracy Amendment won't be on this year's ballot. When it returns as a timely issue, though, I'll support it again as a means of controlling changes in the county's Comprehensive Plan for growth. If the same tactics are re-employed by HDA opponents, I'll probably object to that again.

If there is a feeling that there are different standards of acceptance between long-time (barely over a year now) bloggers and those who are newer as contributors to the MCS website, I don't mind being served up as a point of debate. But I'd disagree with the premise. I think each blogger's comment or contribution elicits its own individual reactions, which may differ according to each individual reader. If one person feels picked on by regulars, it is a reaction to their comments, not the number of days since they decided to join the site.

As to the specific words I chose to use in the original blog, if we start eliminating words because they are potentially offensive to a relatively few individuals who take them literally and out of context, our vocabularies would shrink faster than the value of Bear Stearns stock. Imagine having to check with each person to see if their individual life's experiences make some regulary-used words more personally offensive to them than almost everyone else. We're each responsible for how we allow our experiences to affect what happens to us today and to decide if our reactions are reasonable or not.

I really do appreciate the kinds things written about me. It's nice to know some folks can actually see a person instead of a candidate or just a set of words. By the way, Finder, there's a house for rent right around the corner. If you move now, you'll be able to cast a vote in the District 3 race.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Thanks for the info Mike but I don't think my lovely bride, she who must be obeyed (David Fehrety) would like that too much. 

Of course I guess I could take some lessons from a couple of council people from other cities and pay rent and make believe I live there.  

Mike Heemer

OneMann

I was not going to go back to the blog thread but I saw you posted and felt it was only right that I send a post back and explain to you some things.

The first thing, and I am putting myself out there is when I see the terms rape and plunder used together it emotionally charges me.

When my sister was 18 years old she was living in a crappy neighborhood, with a three month old baby, and the lovely man that was supposed to be with her for the rest of her life, screwed town. Well it wasn’t long after that, she became the victim of a home invasion, was beaten, raped, her only possessions were a small 19 TV, a small, I think they called them Boom boxes, and ten dollars in her purse, was stolen. Thankfully the baby was never harmed. My sister never really got over it, she later became an alcoholic and died at an early age of liver disease..

The other issue is I believe there is a double standard here and my mind will not be changes on this I have seen it on more then one occasion. Some people are allowed to call others names, other people are not, some people can curse when they get angry, some cannot. When the people that cannot say these things do, they get jumped on with all condemnation by the same handful on people. But yet when this handful of people that are superior to others use bad language, or name calling they are not held to task at all. As a matter of fact they receive kudos.

Lets say I used your writing style of this blog, and I directed it at someone that this handful of people admire. I would be condemned for using the language and analogies.

When I posted this revisit, Finder, Angela, and Foxx, saw I had some emotions about it and worked me through it. After talking to them The emotional aspect subsided and I agreed with them maybe I was being over emotional.

As a side note to them I posted a Joke to them and stated with a smiley face icon at the end to indicate humor “you all S&ck” of course this was a joke, of course this was taken out of context.

But then as usual Someone much better then me took the opportunity to pounce and attempted to make this something totally different then what it was, and attempted to diminish any validity to my position. This type of thing happens in my opinion quite often.

That’s how I feel, and everyone can just take it for what it’s worth, or just wait for my next posting to pounce at will.

TRUTHHURTS

I wondered too what Finder meant so I went back and looked at the last few headlining blogs and could not find one from him.  Now I have gone back and read the Garrity entry and see that he received no answers to his questions. 

Truth Hurts--- Truth is; you hurt.  You hurt others by telling them they “s*ck”, which is a word-use I find distasteful.  You hurt yourself and your credibility when you put out this kind of remark for all to see. 

In my opinion, it isn’t a sign of weakness to be courteous and respectful of others.  Exercising those two options, over a period of time, should bring you what you seek; respect and a sense of belonging to the “club”.  If there is a club, you can’t expect them to welcome you with open arms when you continue to light the clubhouse on fire. 

Truth, I don’t think you will be treated with contempt and insults if you are not being contemptible and insulting.  If you are ever treated rudely when you did nothing to deserve it, then it reflects badly on that person, not you. 

I am sorry Truth, if you find this to be another attack on you but you are the one who continues to say that “you can’t have it both ways”.  You can’t keep telling these adults that they call people names or divvy out insults and then go and do the very thing that you find so reprehensible.  Set a good example for those you think don’t behave properly. I understand that you believe that some are reprimanded for their choice of words while others are given a free pass at times. 

I also understand now that you were reacting to the two words that meant something in a personal way to you.  There is another meaning to the word rape that fits the context in which OneMann’s blog was written: 

           Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

Let’s just chalk this up to another learning experience here in the blogs.  Go back and read your entry without the last few sentences and realize how much better received it would have been if you had left it at:

Emotional

Submitted by TruthHurts on Sun, 03/30/2008 - 7:08pm.

Ok

Maybe you’re all right and I am just having an over emotional reaction. I'll let it go.

We can all “live and learn” from this,

“After all, tomorrow is another day.” (Scarlett O’Hara)        

I guess I am the only one here that sees and inturpets the smiley face icon I placed at the end of that statement to indicated I was joking, kidding,

It was made clear to me that I was taking the All-out war blog out of context. Yet not one person can see that my "you all s&ck" comment is also being taken out of context. Thus my point, thus one of the problems.

TRUTHHURTS

TruthHurts,

From what I can gather from the past several months of reading these blogs and meeting some of the bloggers, I've decided that they are of a different generation then perhaps you and I. That would definitely answer the question as to why the "sick" with smiley face comment was taken the wrong way from which you intended.

Don't worry, I'm s  k too!

Ms. Cookie

Thank you for your comments, maybe thats it in a nut shell.

TRUTHHURTS

Cookie;

Some of us probably are from a different generation than you and TH. However, I don't think that can be used as an explanation. You seem to get along very well here while others don't. Why do you think that is?

I can and will only speak for myself so that no one can say that I put words into someone's mouth. And if you read between the lines you should be able to understand that this may not be directed at you. It has your name on it only because you are the one that brought up the generation gap.

When you walk into a room full of people that you don't know that are conversing on a number of subjects would you just jump in and start throwing opinions around and challenging theirs? I don't think so. You would stand back and try to put faces and names to those ideas. You would try to learn their personality before engaging them. Which it seems to me is exactly what you seem to have done.

That is what this blog sight is a room full of new people. Some have met each other but most have not. For me that made it a little tough. It is a pretty steep learning curve. I stuck my nose in a couple of places it shouldn't have been and I made some errors in judgment when it came to responding to blogs.

But after a while you kind of learn who is who, where their opinions are probably going to take them and how to present ideas that may change someone's thinking. I'm still working real hard at that one. Sometimes I do OK sometimes I do not so OK.

Better yet you have to be willing to listen to what they say and maybe change your thinking. Believe me I'm still working on that one too.

The thing is that after a while you kind of get a 'feel' for the person on the other end of the typing. You have to learn to give and take. You have to learn how to express everything in words only. There is no chance for the wink of an eye or the quick smile on the face. Your words have to stand on their own merit.

I've hurt some feelings and had mine hurt a couple of times. Here is what I think is an important thing to remember. Don't make it or take it personal. If you keep it on that level then things can be worked out to the satisfaction of all.

When you do make a personal attack expect a barrage of complaints. Why? Because each user that feels a need to respond is probably doing so at the same time. It can be overwhelming when 3 or 4 hit you all at the same time. Understand that, read them all as if they were one and respond appropriately.

Why are some able to say things that others can't? It is not that only the 'old timers' can get away with it so much as it that the comfort level and the understanding of motivations have been established. This takes time for all involved. There is not a conspiracy to keep any 'newcomers' out. There is a feeling out, a give and take of ideas, personalities and communication styles to learn.

Each user is unique. Some are more comfortable joining in right away and fit in just fine. Then there are people like me that are not necessarily comfortable in 'social' situations that take a little longer to learn how to interact. Then there are those that barge in without thought to the dynamics of the group and feel like they are being picked on when someone takes them to task.

One hint. If you screw up fess up. If you have to apologize for something make it real. Don't try to phony up an apology by making it someone else's fault because they misunderstood, or they took it out of context, or you have some deep seated aversion to certain words.

Phony is worse than none. And it is easy to spot. Take responsibility for what you said, say you're sorry for it and don't do it again. Remember the apology is not just to the person you wronged, it is to the whole group.

That may seem a bit much but think about it. The blog is a public area. Everyone that reads it has to be sure that you really meant what you said or they are not likely to trust your words as much in the future.

If it truly was a misunderstanding then it can be explained in a logical way without throwing more fuel the fire by blaming it on someone else. If you try to make it into a blame game it is just going to make matters worse. Misunderstandings do happen. But it's not always a misunderstanding. Sometimes you just make a wrong turn and have to mend some fences and eat some crow.

Humility is a good thing and crow isn't so bad once you get past the idea of it.

End of soap box 202.

Mike Heemer

Finder Mike,

Spoken like a true father.  Wise words.

TH - the 'old' vs. 'new' blogger comment is not new.  Like M. Mann said - we've only been here a year.  Those who have blogged together do have a familiarity with each other that 'new' people have yet to catch on to.  I think Finder nailed it when he said it's best to take the pulse of the room before jumping in with both feet.  Everyone here, and I do mean everyone, has stepped into a pile of their own making.  Most have seen the error in their ways, offered a sincere apology, and moved on to be a better blogger.

I think we all like the 'new' voices, but just like we are figuring you guys out, you are having to figure us out.  Marsha's social let some of us put a face with a name, and for me, that helped.

Don't worry too much about stepping on toes. We've all been there.

As Mom says, "This too shall pass."

As in thick as a moose, or big as a moose or a loose moose.   Gets the point across, I am not changing my mind.... 

Or the ninja, which means, this is all out war!!!!

 
Or the goodbye...

I don't have the foggiest idea if these show up animated or not.  They are supposed to...

Finder:  Very good comment and explanation to the bloggers, no matter which generation, gender or any age.

I would like to add one more thing and this is just my opinion.  When your words are hurtful or mean or just plain stupid, putting a at the end does not add anything except irritation.  A person I work with comes to mind.  I ask her a simple question via email, and I get four paragraphs of explanation and always adding how busy she is.  Each sentence that chastises me has a smiley face inserted.  That annoys the heck out of me.  The last time I had to ask her something, I requested that she not lecture me, keep it short and please do not use the smiley face. 

Bottom line is that a smiley face icon (or any other emoticon) does not remove the sting from the written remarks.  Best not to say anything, if you have interpret with an icon, or if you have to insert a symbol to complete the word.

Thanks.
JudyB

TRUTHHURTS

Finder that was a very good missive. Excellent advice.