Treading Religious Waters

Cookie,

Yes, cookie, clergy, educators, politicians along with a slew of others are held to higher standards. But here a few cold, hard facts to consider.

Some are held to a higher standard, simply because of the profession they are in or because they are in the public eye. 

Some are held to a higher standard because of some things they have said or done.

Most are held to a higher standard because of the expectations of those who are not held to a higher standard.  Those would be the people of a Joe or Jane Q. Public variety.  People like you & me.

Just because your pastor strayed from the path of fidelity, does that negate any advise he may have given the congregation on other subjects?  Does that invalidate his total worth?  I hope not.  Because if it does, that means that we expect perfection from an  imperfect being.

All, I repeat, ALL of the people who are held to a higher standard are still simple human beings.  They are subject to the same values, faults, frailties & thought processes that we all have.  They, as we, are subject to the same temptations.  In short, they are no better or worse than we are.

If you or I subject ourselves to what we might think to be a higher standard than we see around us & fail at keeping that standard, not many people know @ it.  The effects, all things considered, are smaller than with a public figure.  But the fault remains the same even if a president commits the very same fault.  The repercussions may be greater, the number of people who find out @ it will probably be greater.  But the fault & the act will be the same. 

Maybe that's why some old saying came about.  Casting stones, walking in the moccasins & the like.  Just a little food for thought from uncle Rich.

RichK

You can't base your faith on what others do. We hold many different people to higher standards because of what position they hold. How many teachers have betrayed the trust of students by sleeping around with one of them? How many elected officials have betrayed the trust of the people that elect them? I do not fully understand what makes a person go against what they represent or have come to know as good and decent behavior.  This happens in all walks of life but I think it is most hardest to accept or comprehend when it happens to be a leader in our faith commuities. I will give you these words of advice someone gave me years ago, Don't let this shake your faith, your personal realtionship with God.  

One of the ministers in the area that I admire the most, strayed from the straight and narrow. Ministers are part of mankind, and they are not above the fallacy of other men. This minister called his congregation to move from a building they had used for years and literally start a new ministry, and build a new church because they felt their mother religion had strayed from the word. A man with that kind of feeling obviously was on the right track, he was just sidetracked. One of the chief tenets of Christian religion is forgiveness. I started out late practicing forgiveness. I try and practice forgiveness now as much as I can, but I am a work in progress, and sometimes I fail.

We all need to be a little more tolerant of each other's mishaps. The person who claims never to have done anything wrong is either a liar, or has never done anything, period. I hope to see this minister I admire back at work one day. I am saddened that because of the nature man that this may never happen.

The greater they are, the higher they fall.

Islander,

Thank you for the words of wisdom. I didn't realize that I needed to forgive this pastor.  I realize that the problem of placing this person on a pedestal was my fault and the pastor was bound to fail at some point for some reason.

I believe that a clergy man is chosen by God and therefore more accountable than the average Joe citizen. I left myself wide open for disappointment as the clergy is just a mere man.

Thank you for your kind words.  Never put man or woman in a position where you expect perfection.  You are bound to be disappointed.  I agree with you that certain individuals are held to a higher accountability, but again I tell you that they are human.  You put your faith in your God.  The rest will fail you at some time or point in your relationship with them.  It is man's nature.   That doesn't let us off the hook when we make a mistake, it just means that we can be forgiven.  Forgiveness is a tenuous thing.  You can be forgiven much easier by your God than by another human.  If you truly are sorry for what you have done, and make a conscious statment never to do that particular deed again, you should free yourself of guilt, as you God so generously does.  Forgiveness from man is much harder to obtain.  If you ask someone to forgive you, whether they do or not doesn't matter.  You are only responsible for your deeds, and once you ask for that forgiveness, the problem becomes the other persons, and is no longer yours.  A contrite spirit and broken heart are all that is needed.  I don't mean to sound like a preacher here, but I know what forgiveness is all about, yet I struggle to forgive daily.

Cookie;

I'll take this on another path at least for this post.

My father played professional bluegrass and traveled the country with legiondary bluegrass pickers. My life was one of being around hard livin music folk.

I don't know how you felt it about it then or how you feel about it now but it certainly must have been interesting. At least from where I sit.

I'm sure you must have some stories to tell and memories of places you have seen. Some are probably better than others but all a part of your life that makes you what you are today.

They don't have a thing to do with Bluegrass music but two of my all time favorite songs are by Garth Brooks. Why mention them then? For me both have a powerful message.

The River: A dream is like a river, ever changing as it flows and a dreamer's just a vessel that must follow where it goes.

The Dance: Our lives are better left to chance, I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the dance.

Now how the heck did I get from there to here? I haven't a clue. Just kind of rambled along. You seemed to be looking for something and asking a question that didn't seem to really have an answer except perhaps in your own heart.

Someplace in here is what I wanted to say. I'll leave it to you to figure it out or discard it as coming from nut case as you like.

Mike Heemer

Cookie

I agree with just about everything that was said above.

I would only like to add, try to find forgivness in your heart and pray for your pastors and their families to give them the stregnth to hold their lives together.

Redemption and forgivness is a wonderful thing.

 TRUTHHURTS

Islander..your second entry to Cookie was outstanding--and I for one read it very carefully!  I am going to make a new effort to be forgiving.  You did not sound a bit "preachy"  Good advice is just good advice, plain and simple.  If the advice happens to also be good for the soul--it is just an added benefit!

Islander and Maxie I enjoyed both your posts and could almost swear I felt the peace and love with which they were written.

I can't speak to having had the experience of a Pastor that fell from Grace but I believe I have something to offer about realizing the imperfection of man.

As a child growing up I thought the sun rose and set on my Daddy.  As a little girl, and even a young one I believed he could do no wrong and it actually made it tough on me at times when I dissapointed him. 

When I became old enough to realize he was human afterall, and had made his share of mistakes we actually became closer.  I think it also made me a better Parent because I finally found peace within that I would never be perfect and would make choices regarding my kids that I would regret.  In making sure my kids have understood at an earlier age that as a Parent I am not perfect but that whatever mistakes I make it will not be from a lack of love has also strengthened those relationships. 

At the end of the day it's all about forgiveness,and love. Not just for others but for yourself as well.  It is sometimes harder to forgive self then others. The day I saw my Daddy for the human that he is my love and admiriation and respect for him grew ten fold. 

Cookie it's entirely possible that in their mistakes a new strength will be found and the blessings of these men to others will be greater then they ever were before. 

Finder,

I don't mind sharing some of my childhood memories of being on the road with my father if you'd like to hear about those years.

My father was a self taught 5 string banjo picker. As a matter of fact, he played most any stringed instrument he picked up and self taught himself the piano.

He began playing Bluegrass full time when I very young. My mom and I traveled with him as he played with Bill Monroe, Lester Flat and Scruggs, Jimmy Martin to name a few. These name may not mean anything to you but they were the heavy hitters in Bluegrass at the time. Dad played with Loretta Lynn for awhile. I used to play with Crystal Gail on the tour bus as we waited for the concert to end. Dad also played with Mel Tillis who by the why was a very nice man.

I was introduced to Ricky Scaggs as a young person. He used to spend the night at our house and I'd have to give up my bed for him. I didn't like it then but now its a great story.

So as you can imagine I was indulged by the people I grew up around. My favorite idol was Connie Smith who I ended up singing with for a couple of years before getting married.

Thats just a few of the things I did as a child. Hope you found it interesting.

We can and should expect higher standards of behavior from certain people by nature of the path they've chosen to take among us.

Cookie, boy, did you pick a subject that's personal to me.  Like someone who leads a congregation, anyone who edits a newspaper (like I did) or is running for elected office (like I am) needs to understand and accept the fact that expectation of a special, higher standard of behavior comes with the job.

The truth is, though, we're just like you, or your family members, or your neighbors.  Heck, we are you, your family members or neighbors.  Titles like County Commissioner, Managing Editor or The Reverend may sound special or powerful, but there is nothing special about those jobs that makes their holders any more powerful as human beings.  We're all subject to personal lapses of judgment; like everyone else, we all are filled with our individual imperfections.

This is personal to me, also, Cookie, because I understand the failure to meet normal public expectations and maintain my own standards of behavior.  Even worse, my mistake was for doing something I had often railed against, like a preacher who often mentions "Thou shall not commit adultery."  Because I was a public figure, it became news, but that added public embarrassment was nothing compared to the private, personal disappointment.

We can and should expect more from some people.  And those people should accept striving to meet those higher expectations.  But, try as we may to meet them, we are not special people.  Just regular people trying to do special jobs, whether those happen to be providing news, making laws or giving spiritual guidance.  It's not an excuse, because sometimes there really aren't any for the choices we make.  It's just the reality of human imperfection in jobs where perfection, or at least a higher standard, is expected.

When searching for a member of the clery to trust, Cookie, trust only that they understand your expectations and that they will try to meet them.  But temper that trust with the understanding that they are, more than being a peacher, just a regular person.  Far short of perfect.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

Trust no one, but never lose faith......

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Smunsey and OneMan,

Both are really good thoughts and for that I am grateful. I really like"Trust no one, but never lose faith". I never thought that I'd hear myself say that I should trust no one but its so true. You can't trust people. They find out who you are and take advantage of you whether it is because of your statis in the community, your financial ability and so on. I've been victim to these time and again. But I always fall for it again. I suppose it is because one needs to be accepted and liked.

This my be off topic but I've heard people say time and again that they don't care what someone else thinks about them. But I'm one of those people who can't stand for someone to not accept me. It really bothers me. I have even racked my brain over an incident of finding out someone didn't like me, to try and find out why? Of course, there are times when you just can't do anything about it. Sorry I drifted away. I suppose that due to be an entertainer since childhood, acceptance is huge for me. Oh well, life goes on and you get over it.

Cookie life does go on and sometimes we never get over people violating our trust. Turn it into a postive way to make change that helps others. When helping others we are helping ourself grow.

Thank you! See I knew my blog family would offer up great advise. No if Marsha would lend her thoughts, everything would be complete. Great minds!

If you just scroll up, I already did.

Cookie;

Are you kidding me? If you can spell Bluegrass you know who Bill Monroe is. I love his music. Flat and Scrugs - great! Ricky Scaggs - you bet!

Mel, Loretta, Crystal, Connie Smith - love their music.

Name dropper!      

Mike Heemer

Mike,

I hope I didn't come across as a name dropper. Sorry about that. I promise you that was my life. If you know anything about Bluegrass Music possibly you've heard of The Stone Mountain Boys. My father was the original member of that group. They played Wheeling West Virginia (radio) every saturday night for years. Oh those were the days!! People were friendly, you could leave your car unlocked and as a child you could go to the drug store and hop up on a stool at the soda fountain and get the best milkshake around. YUM!

I still sing mostly Bluegrass Gospel. And have cut several projects that have done quite well in the Southern Gospel field. I love my roots! Thanks for being a fan of Bluegrass!

Cookie;

I was just showing my warped sense of humor with the name dropping. Thus the Smiley and Cool faces. Envious is more like it.

Mike Heemer