SimCity Lessons for Clay County

Mike,

Good Idea.  I seem to remember a story similar to this a year or two back.  But it was used for something totally different.  Scientists, maybe behavioral psychologists, used it to help with children, & some adults, who had some kind of behavioral problems.  They thought that because it was basicaly a game, the children took an automatic liking to it & gave the game a fairly good grade of success in helping the kids with their problems.

I could see how it would translate into the scenario you state.  Real life situations without the risk.  Ya gotta love it.  JATFUR.

RichK

Mike this looks like a page out of the Economic Development Study that was done for Clay County instead of a computer game.

The study concludes:

The county has grown in size over the last ten years at a rate faster than some of the strongest economies in the nation. The growth in the size of the economy has been the result of the growth of Duval County.

While the county has grown in size, it has actually declined in quality at a rate comparable to some of the weakest economies in the nation. Wages paid in Clay County are some of the lowest in the nation. This is the result of the formation of an extremely large number of low wage service and retail jobs and the absence of high wage primary industries.

Economic projections for Clay County show the area will continue to grow rapidly in size over the next twenty years, but continue to decline in quality.

Well that says it all.

This is the results of all the roof tops being built without the necessary jobs needed in the county. However, all we hear about is the Outer beltway with all the roof tops attached. The Highlands project with all the roof tops attached. With the industry that will come. There is no way industry will catch up if you continue to stick all those roof tops in the mix. Along with the talk of diminshed level of services to come due to the budget cuts. The quality of life in Clay County is on a rapid decline.

Clay County voters need to grab some of the will and fight like the citizens in St Johns County and vote all the pro growth people off the Commission. St Johns County is now talking moratorium. We had a Quality of Life study that shows that is what people are looking for in the county. I hope the voters take the lead in the upcoming elections and make some changes for the county. That is the only way it is going to happen if we the people step up and let them hear our voices.

Angela,

I remember shortly after my wife & I moved here in 1981, these very same concerns were in the local news.  At the time, Clay County was one of the fastest growing counties in the US.  After moving back here in 1996, after a twelve year tour of duty with my godess, the local news was pretty much the same.  FF another 12 yrs, & here we are having the same conversation.  I would like to know from my fellow bloggers who have lived here prior to '81 if they were having the same conversation way back when.

RichK

Guys, I have been saying this for a year.  Clay has gotten itself into such a pickle with growth that it is too late.  There is not enough open land to create the roads we need.  Where can we afford to put a north-south artery in Clay?  The boat sailed from Clay years ago.  It is just now that we are dealing with all those rooftops.  Comprehensive plans, and DRI's look good on paper, but when you put all those asphalt shingles on the roofs, it suddenly doesn't look so hot anymore.

With the DRI's now in place we have thousands of additional homes that will be built, and not a single road to take care of them.  We pave/widen the feeder roads and dump them on either US 17 or Blanding.  That is the Clay answer to growth management. Sit back and watch growth being managed by developers.

The best paying jobs in Clay are those who work for the government.  The rest of the jobs are service related and barely put individuals above the poverty line, and most likely families are below the poverty line.   You can moan and groan all you want about growth, it's here, and expect the quality of life in Clay to continue to decrease every time a new development takes place.

Things are much different now than they were back then when it was discussed. The glut of homes on the market presently, the people moving out of the county and State, the roads, and the increase in the cost of gas for the 60% who must commute out of the county for employment. The increased commute times for those 60% that has won us the longest commute award in the State of Florida.

Everyone would like the door shut after them a common reaction. However, we now have some real concerns and data to support those positions. Along with the rapid decline in the quality of life in the county.

Clay County's growth was slow until the Buckman Bridge was built. That caused a flood of people moving into the county but worked in Jax. The Outer Beltway will do the same cause a flood of people who still commute. However, I don't see the price of gas going down any time in the near future.

I don't think I have ever seen the amount of people leaving the county such as neighbors and friends as I have seen in the last year alone.

SoloVoce

I am a native of the county and watched US 17 go from a two lane country road to a six and four lane highway to Putnam County. Orange Park Mall opened on a two lane State Road 21. Back in the late 70’s the coal fire generator plant 3-4 miles in Putnam County was suppose to be built on the county line in Clay. Some of the BCC was opposed because they said it would create pollution for our county and that train load after train load of coal would tie up the tracks through the county and it could endanger public safety. No problem the hundreds of good paying jobs moved a few miles across the county line and you still have the coal trains coming through the county. The opposition was so great that there were bumper stickers that read “No coal in Clay”.

It all goes back to our elected BCC and state legislators. All talk no action, just lip service.

Although not a resident of CC at that time, I remember that the mall was built, "in the country."  Clay missed the boat, I say again.   I am ready to retire shortly (less than 5 years), and I wouldn't even think of retiring here.  There is just too much road rage, and traffic for me to enjoy a peaceful, and safe retirement.  Alas, I will "get outta town" when the time comes for me to take life at a slower pace (other than sitting still in gridlocked traffic.).

Magnum, I would agree with you about lip service, except I would say that the only lips that were served were the developers who bought land twenty years ago in Clay. 

The door should have been slammed in the mid 90's when all the building was taking place, and nobody was interested in roads and quality of life, just $$$$$. 

On the island, for a little while longer.... 

Islander;

My wife and I retired almost 3 years ago. We came here on purpose to excape all the traffic and expense of SD California.

I hear what you are saying but it's all a matter of perspective. I'll trade your 17/21 traffic for 3 Interstates (I-5, I-805 and I-15) along with SR-163, SR-94, SR-125, SR-52 and SR-54 that don't move as fast as they do.

Could it better, should it be better? Sure, but it depends on what you are used to as to how bad you think it is.

Mike Heemer

Islander- The door should have been slammed in the mid 90's when all the building was taking place, and nobody was interested in roads and quality of life, just $$$$$. 

Those decisions have now come back around to bite them on the rear. With the property tax change and not so much money coming in from ad valorem taxes. We will find them reducing the level of services yearly to accommodate all the roof tops that they gleefully voted yes on at that time. A rapid decline in the quality of life.

Governor Crist likes what he see from the Tax Commission of increased sales tax and stopping sales tax exemptions but I don't think that would even take place until 2010. Still that will not be certain revenue like property taxes and will be subject to change according to the economy and peoples spending habits.

Besides a big major problem is creeping up the State and that is the water problems. Something that is just reaching the people in North Florida. Still a very real concern.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-ed22108mar22,0,6896108.story 

Finder, the local people, including myself, never wanted anything like what you came from.  We were the victims of money.  I have driven some of those roads you mentioned, and you are correct, but here, we never wanted, or expected such a mess.  I remember crossing into Oregon from California in the mid 70's.  Welcome to Oregon, enjoy your visit, then go home.  

Ah, finder, but the problems you left, you brought with you, (finder) which when combined with all the other finders, equals too many people. But it is a free country, and I can't blame you in the least.  We should have been better prepared and not had so many bubbas and good ole' boys in power at that time.  I saw the enemy is he is bubba (myself).  

Islander; 

I understand what you're saying and agree to a point. But it is an age old problem that probably is never going to get solved.

Nature is not the only one that abhors a vacuum. Man just seems to want to fill up every empty space. When the one he is in gets full he'll go looking for a new one to fill. If you have land, someone will build. If you build, people will buy.

I'm pretty sure the Native Americans weren't overly impressed when the Pilgrims brought so damn many white folks along from their overcrowded cities in Europe either.

If ants built colonies the way man builds communities they would have been extinct a few million years ago.

Mike Heemer

It all comes down to poor planning by a bunch of elected officials with unqualified staff. It was corruption 101. They thought adding more people would fix some of the problems. We see where that went.

I don't think they left Europe for overcrowding did they?

We are quickly becoming California with all the problems. Believe me there is alot of land in the United States but we are attempting to put all of the US's population (legal and illegal) in California, Florida. Texas, and New York. That would be a government move there.

Win those 4 states and you can be the President.

I like Clay County, and the way it looks. The roads and traffic don't bother me, and neither does the new construction going on throughout the County.

My quality of life is good, and my property value has more then doubled.

I came here in the mid 90's of my own free will with no pressure from the government, and no government slamming a door on me telling me I can't come.

Can improvements be made, of course. I think you can say that in any County across the land.

When the day comes that I no longer like what the cost of progress has done to the County, or feel my quality of life is suffering I will simply move.

TRUTHHURTS

Man, some of you are really some whinny folks.  Quality of life survey?  Take that survey to sudan bring it back and see what it reads.  Not to say that we just need to roll over and be little optimistic people all the time, but really, how bad does life suck and how bad is your life?  I'm sure i'll be the little naive, stupid young person here, but if all i have to look forward to is becoming an old person who complains about the quality of my life, i'll stay young and stupid. 

Now look, we must keep up with the growth and possibly place restrictions on the growth so that the county can catch up, but if this dosen't happen tommorow, i'd be willing to bet that the sky dosen't fall down on our feeder to duval county.

Onemann, Simcity, great game, i always liked to start fires and riots, let them get out hand and then save the city.

 But we aren't in the Sudan.  Probably as you say, you are young, and you don't know about or understand open spaces.  You probably are a child of the mall.  I don't fault you for that, but don't fault me for longing for open spaces minus malls and wall to wall people.  Whining, maybe to you, but just wanting a bit of room without so many people  By the way, the quality of life has decreased here in the last 10 years, which depending on how old you are may be half of your life.  

I can go with that, it's understandable.  Not a true child of the mall, currently i reside in a very urban area b/c it's close to work and school and it'll be like that or me for the next two to three years.  Once i'm done with school i too wish to return to a not so crowded lifetyle which is where i came from (southern clay).  However, even in the urban area of op four miles from the mall, i still don't think the qulaity of life is that bad (to me).  Wonderful it will be to have twenty acres one day and that may be in a different county.  I realize this isn't sudan and just b/c we have it better that dosen't mean we should let this country go to crap, but even on a bad day we're better off.  It's also understandable that if i want a less crowded county to return to things need to change as far as development is concerned, but some folks really push it or me when they complain and complain about how bad it is or how bad it will be, maybe, maybe not, but right now it's not too bad.  Not so sure i agree that the quality of life has decreased, it's alll about perspective, but in ten days according to your opinion it will be exactly half of my life.

Foxx - your youthful perspective is appreciated.  I'm with you that life in Clay isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be.  For anyone who wants some space, there are plenty of lots of 1 acre and larger all over Clay County, cheap really.

I love this conversation - no matter how many times we have it.  It's appropriate.  It's timely.  It's what's hot in this area to debate.

We just came back from 5 days in San Fran, CA.  Huge, huge difference I know, but folks, growth will not, can not stop.  I saw density.  Urban density, and suburban density.  I agree that FL seems to follow CA in regulation, etc.  The more preservation occurs (a good thing), the more density has to increase.  Redevelopment of old decaying areas is an option, but what areas are in such bad condition that they can be razed and start all over again.  I read somewhere that's what's about to happen in GCS on 17.  I'm looking forward to that.

Angela, "I don't think I have ever seen the amount of people leaving the county such as neighbors and friends as I have seen in the last year alone." If that keeps up, growth won't be a problem.

The problem of too many roofs and not enough jobs is a big deal, and developers are getting the word loud and clear from BCC and Staff.  The Highlands completely revised their phasing schedule and NO roof tops will be built during the first phase - only industrial development.

The Planning Dept., and the BCC in approving the Planning Dept.'s plans and ordinances, have a major role to play, no doubt.  But, "closing the door behind you" is not an option.  Projections will vary with real-world conditions, but longterm, this world is going to become more and more crowded.  So is Clay County.  Don't be scared to volunteer for your local Planning & Zoning Citizens Advisory Commission.  They are always welcoming new volunteers, and only 2 are active that I know of.  Be involved.  It helps the County be a better place, and a place to use some of that frustrated energy.

Foxx:  By child of the mall, I don't mean that you have to live near one, but were born after malls were built. In other words, you don't remember when malls weren't around.  Sorry, but I needed to clarify that to you.  It was a terms used to describe 20-early 30 year olds.  You might want to visit OP mall on Saturday night, if you haven't already and you might reassess your view of that part of OP.  Would you  feel safe at the mall at that time?

Bax:  Good points, it would certainly help out of the jobs were there for those rooftops to work at.  I don't know if we can turn that around in Clay though.  There may be too little and we may be too late to turn it around. 

If you are one of the 60% of people who commute daily out of the county to work. Then you would understand what quality of life and what the decline of that means.

I would encourage all to drive that every morning and evening for a month. Then come on the blogs and we can have a real discussion about the decline in our quality of life in Clay County.

The Highlands project is urban sprawl. That affects Bradford County who is in opposition of this project being carried out because it affects their quality of life. I don't think our elected officials really care what impact we have on neighboring counties. One Commissioner who commented about the Outer Beltway said we can dump this traffic into St Johns County and let them worry about it over there.

I leave the county before the sun comes up and return home after the sun goes down. I just sleep in Clay County. Each time they build something my commute gets longer.

Yea, i've been to the mall on saturday night, however, it's usually on the amc side where there is a crap load of cops.  However, there are certain parts in that area that i would not feel safe in late at night, riding with deputies i have gotten a small taste of the areas i'd rather not be at night.  But you're really not being logical as there are places in just about any community that has a large populaion and is older that have areas that one dosen't wish to be at certain times.  i would also ask, have you visited the Op mall (frequently) on saturday nights, honestly it's not that bad, it really sounds as if some think the new people or teenagers are the deterant, overall i'd much rather be at the mall instead of being alone in an area i know is bad. 

Still though, the question of quality of life?  Bad traffic on Sat. night especially on wells road, true, Increased Crime in that area where more people live at, true, but if you're a cop you know this, however, if you're not i'd encourage you to take a ride, you'll see where you spend most of the night, generally in the same few places.  Quality of life isn't that bad when you stay out of areas you know suck, but i still understand what you're saying that the overall quality goes down somewhat, but that come with more population which is something that's not going to stop. 

I guess we could all use Truth Hurt's logic, continue the inefficient way Clay County is attempting to manage its growth, and then all just pack up and move away the day we just get fed up.

Maybe we really should compare our quality of life to that in the Sudan or San Diego or San Francisco and decide, since we're all better off than those places, we should just stop whining about things like our state-worst commute over decaying and overcrowded roads.

Being satisfied that we're better off than some other places or readily accepting the fact that when things get bad enough we'll move, well, there are better options available.

Some basic changes in government's vision and growth strategy isn't an admission or complaint that this is a terrible place to live.  Far from that.  It's just a realization that, without some changes, Clay County is headed in that direction.  Delaying the development of a new, more efficient strategies for growth management doesn't make sense, because it will allow the problems we've already identified to continue.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

The Governments vision and strategy for growth is directley related back to the people that put them in office. The folks that put them in office to begin with should have asked these hard questions beofore they cast their votes.

If my quality of life was drastically being effected, Yes I would take action, and not wait for the government to save me. My quality of life is my responsibilty, not the governments.

I may move closer to my job. I may try car pooling, I may even change my job, or county and state I live in. I will not hold my breath waiting for the government to listen to my complaints and better my quality of life for me.

I take charge of my own quality of life and refuse to allow outside influences and government to dictate my quality of life. Free will is a great and powerfull human right, and when life dictates change, I use it.

Progress and growth in this country has always been, and always will be a thorn in someones side. It has and will continue to please many people, and negativlty impact many other people.

Just ask any full blooded Native American (if you can find one) how they feel about progress, growth, and quality of life. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say the commute from Clay County to Duval County is pale in compairision to "The Trail of Tears".

TRUTHHURTS

Could not have said it better myself!  God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference.

No matter what happens in Goverment, someone will always be unhappy.  That is not a reason however to not change what we can for the better.

After that missive by TH we need a prayer in Clay County.

In the  "The Trail of Tears" if we used TH's reasoning. Then the Native Americans should have tried horse pooling. Maybe they should of just got up and moved since their quality of life was being encroached upon by the government before being forced out.

After all who was it the government that came up with and signed into law the "Indian Removal Act". If those Indians would of just made a different vote in the elections. Right!

People better stand up and speak out because as history has shown the government will take over if you just keep moving to higher ground. They make their own laws.

I'm glad TH's property is increasing in value. Because I've seen mine decreasing, along with my investments for my retirement, and the dollar that is worth nothing. Thanks to the government!

I am all for personal responsibility but the government has a way of encroaching on peoples rights daily since they make the laws. I'm working for a better Clay County before they write into law some remove the unhappy citizens act.

I was only expressing an opinion.

My quality of life is just fine, and the current growth in Clay does not bother me, my property did in fact more then double and recently refinanced and received some of the rewards from my good judgement in how I invested my money. My investments in the market is also holding strong. I am sorry your investments are not doing so well.

Good luck with your quest.

TRUTHHURTS

Wonder who the first person is that would be removed from the removal of unhappy citizens act.........hmmm, anybody have a mirror to mail to angela.  Just a rant for someone who seems to be unhappy about everything.

Foxx

Are you being naughty again?

Behave yourself.

TRUTHHURTS

Naughty, Naughty, i'll hear about it in oh..............three or less hours

More houses in Clay County compared to the uprooting and destruction of a centuries-old culture?  More cars on Blanding as opposed to near-genocide?  That's not a glass-half-full way to look at life, it's more the glass is overflowing, but that's OK because the water that's spilled is renourishing the garden before being filtered crystal clear back into the acquifer.

Truth, I'm like you, in that I really like living in Clay County.  I've been here awhile, except for a couple of short forays into less pleasurable locales, because I choose to be here.  Unless something totally unanticipated happens, I'll live out the rest of my life in Clay County - because it's full of good things.

Some of those good things I really like about Clay County are the direct result of the growth it has experienced since I first arrived.  I don't want Clay County to stop growing.  Growth can bring benefits to the folks who live here right now.

The county's rapid increase in population has also brought some less beneficial aspects to lives of local residents, though, and government's response to those should be debated.  It is not even complaining, it's looking for improvement.

The Trail of Tears occurred because its victims were powerless to stop it.  Changing something as relatively minor as inefficient government growth management policies or decisions certainly isn't outside the power of local residents.  It doesn't require a long, torturous trek of famine, disease and death.  Just a few minutes to stand in line and cast a vote.

Michael S. Mann

michaelsmann@comcast.net

I would be in good company in Clay County with the decline in the Quality of Life. You must of missed the survey.

http://clayqol.com/

Now I don't know what America TH lives in but it must be in a different one than I do. They must have a government job.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/17/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?postversion=2008031716

My idea of financial freedom is my home paid off. No bills other than household bills. Good stock investments and some quality of life. So, I go to work each day. Hoping I can keep the government out of all of the above. I am for less government.

It would not be to refinance my home and still owe a mortgage for the rest of my life.

I would like to see people who live in District 3 vote for Mike Mann because I think he has a clear picture of what the quality of life is all about in the county and would work for the citizens for a better Clay County. What a novel idea in Clay County instead of a bunch of self interest career politicians who got us in this mess.

But what could I expect from a person who would relate Clay County to the "Indian Removal Act".

Marsha keep up with those prayers if anybody has a connection upstairs I'm certain it's you.

Angela

You assume I have a government job....wrong.

You assume the property I refinanced is the home that I live in....wrong.

You assume that I owe a mortage on my home....wrong

The quality of life I enjoy is directly based on the investemnts I have made and my good judgement, without any help from the government.

I am very comfortable, and very happy. When that status changes I will effect personal change, exersize my free will, and address my quality of life without any government involvement.

Like you, I do not want the government in control of my life, but when change happens that I cannot control, I make adjustments and move on.

As I stated before good luck on your quest, and in addition good luck with your campaign to get Mr. Mann elected. I wish you both God's speed.

TRUTHHURTS

Angela;

Please, you sound like one of the two year olds I used to have. Fortunately they learned to quit whining by the time they got to be about 10.

To listen to your missives we live in a dictatorial nightmare that could begin a new ‘holocaust’ any day now.

As for your property values, investment values and the value of a dollar:

Do you mean your property has decreased since last year or since you bought it?

Same question for your investment portfolio, is it worth more than you have contributed?

Again, what do you mean by the dollar is worth nothing? Can you still buy food with it?

If it wasn’t for the government you wouldn’t have a dollar, you’d still be trying to barter beads with those Indians you seem to distain so much.

I find it hard to believe that someone that professes to be of average or better intelligence would make the comments you just made about the Indians and moving on, voting differently and encroachment by the government.

What pompous condescending statements to make about a people from whom we stole an entire country. Their QOL started down the crapper long before we ever had a government here. It started the day the first ‘white man’ stepped foot on these shores.

We sent the entire might of the US Military and a large group of other countries to kick Iraq out of Kuwait back in 1990. Yet you seem to think that it was perfectly OK for us to come and take this country away from the rightful owners just so you could have a place to live.

I really don’t like being grouped in with your ‘too many roof tops in developments’ comments. It gets tiring. I and my ilk have as much right here as you do. You’d still be driving on a single lane 17 cow path with no bridge over Doctor’s Inlet if you even had a job to go to.‘I'm working for a better Clay County’. Would you mind sharing with me what you’re doing? I’ve heard you wanking about the politicians and whining about how ‘they’ are killing your QOL but I really haven’t heard you say what you actually do to make things better.

If it is so bad go check with the Indians. They can probably tell you how to move on to some other place. Perhaps you would prefer we just set up a reservation for you and your kind out in the boonies someplace. That way you wouldn’t have to worry about growth or us people ruining you QOL by building roads or schools or stores or……

Mike Heemer

Mike

WOW......are you ok?

You really let her (Angela) have it.

I am just glad it wasn't me.

But I do agree with you on this topic.

 PS I don't know why this posted twice.....sorry folks.

TRUTHHURTS

Darn it, i still can't find that mirror.

Mike

WOW......are you ok?

You really let her (Angela) have it.

I am just glad it wasn't me.

But I do agree with you on this topic.

 TRUTHHURTS

Sorry I am not in your 60%

If I was I would move.

TRUTHHURTS

Fortunately, that 60% dosen't complain as much, it's just the little 0.000000000001%, YOU.

I'm a part of that 60% and i've lived here my entire life, but yet the qol in my perspective is not that bad, not to say that continued improvements aren't necessary, but to complain constantly about all, that's just ridiculous, not logical and rather lazy b/c you too could improve your qol and others if you'd be quiet and do something.

If your quality of life has not changed in Clay County then you could not be in the company of us the 60% who have the longest commute time in the State of Florida. The award bestowed upon the fine citizens in Clay County due to poor management of the county.

The Quality of Life survey and the Economic Development survey are not my studies. But I can certainly relate to the results of those studies. Smarter people than I have worked those numbers.

It think they are worth repeating:

The county has grown in size over the last ten years at a rate faster than some of the strongest economies in the nation. The growth in the size of the economy has been the result of the growth of Duval County.

While the county has grown in size, it has actually declined in quality at a rate comparable to some of the weakest economies in the nation. Wages paid in Clay County are some of the lowest in the nation. This is the result of the formation of an extremely large number of low wage service and retail jobs and the absence of high wage primary industries.

Economic projections for Clay County show the area will continue to grow rapidly in size over the next twenty years, but continue to decline in quality.

It seems the elected officials would want to work to make our commute something we could live with since we are largely responsible for the good economic growth Clay County has experienced. I guess we could all take your cue and all move out of the county.

With the current increases in the cost of gas it may be the only option left if it continues to go up.

Clay County's landscape would certainly change if 60% of us got up and left.

Angela

Let it go will you.

If you don't behave yourslef I will sell some of my land to a developer just for sh%ts and giggles.

TRUTHHURTS

Be my guest. Most of the builders are working outside the county now anyway because they have such a glut of homes and they can't find anything to build here. You missed your timing. You should have sold during the free reign of the Commissioners who were giving out freebies like candy.

I think they hear us now.

Foxx;

I'll buy the mirror if you'll pay the postage!

TH;

I know how you feel about the assumptions. I worked my butt off in the Navy for 26 years so I would have a retirement and medical coverage. I worked for another 15 after that and my wife worked for 20.

We made a plan when we got married so that we could be pretty much where we are today. We did this so that we could buy a retirement home for cash, not have a bunch of bills and be able to enjoy our QOL.

BTW my QOL is just fine thank you. Though my wife would like to see a Macy's closer than Gainesville and we'd both like to see a Casino close by.

Apparently I'm a bad guy for having planned my future and reaching my goals.

Mike Heemer

Mike

I couldn't agree more. We reap what we sow.

Like you and your better half, we worked very hard for what we have no thanks to anyone but ourselves. Nothing was given to us, and now I am suposed to feel bad?? I don't think so. My quality of life is just dandy and we did it all by ourselves.

Some folks work hard and make the right moves to give themselves a better quality of life, and some just cry about why the government won't help them. If you don't like the commute don't make it.

TRUTHHURTS

You are no bad guy here. I plan on doing the same thing. Working now and planning for the future. Just like you left California I will leave Clay County for a less costly place to live. I just hope my property values increase like those in California did. With some Commissioners that make some good management choices and makes the area a viable place and not the one indicated in the survey. Then I see an end to that plan.

If the survey is right and economic projections for Clay County show the area will continue to grow rapidly in size over the next twenty years, but continue to decline in quality. Then they are working against my plan.

Maybe you could clear up the truth here.

IslanderSubmitted by Foxx on Sun, 03/23/2008 - 9:39pm.

I can go with that, it's understandable.  Not a true child of the mall, currently i reside in a very urban area b/c it's close to work and school and it'll be like that or me for the next two to three years. 

Then you say you have joined the rank and file of those of us stuck in the traffic with the longest commute in the State of Florida who work outside the county and it's a good place to be for a couple of hours a day.

Oh AngelaSubmitted by Foxx on Mon, 03/24/2008 - 4:45pm.

I'm a part of that 60% and i've lived here my entire life, but yet the qol in my perspective is not that bad,

So which is it?

Because the rest of these with no complaints don't make that drive each day. It can't be both.

 Angela

I don't think anyone called you a B$tch.

Your assuming again.

Slang was used refering to folks complaining "they just don't Bitch about it as much as you".

Your begining to look a little narcissistic 

TRUTHHURTS

I'm not a female dog friend, but I will email management concerning your language.

Well now maybe you were.

We reap what we sow.

TRUTHHURTS

We do reap what we sow. However, I'm still not a female dog. I guess when people are confronted with a question where they contradict themselves they tend to act childish in their responses. Foxx made the statements not me. I just asked the question.

Angela

It's not that.

I think the problem is your going on and on, and on, just let it go. Your just digging in it all deeper and deeper. Instead of just accepting we do not agree with you, you want to continue as is it's your duty to change our minds. We won't have that.

TRUTHHURTS

No apology, b/c i wasn't referring to you with the usage of that word.  You took it out of context. 

I guess when people are confronted with a question where they contradict themselves they tend to act childish in their responses.  Come on now, be real, i answered your question in an adult manner, however, i won't continue to play these childish games with you as there is no getting through to you.  Open your mind up some, it's worked well for me.  For the greater good, i'm out of this conversation, if you choose to continue to self destruct your reputation that's up to you.