The Commissioner Bush Cameras are Installed at the New Wallmart-Big Brother is watching.....

Don,

OK, I'll freely admit to being puzzled.  Outside of having to deal with ridiculous rules of a homeowners association that assumes powers unto themselves that would supercede the laws of this country, exactly where is the connection between cameras in Wal Mart & flying flags in Clay Country?  You got me on this one, big guy.  Please explain. 

RichK

Don;

HUH? What the heck are you talking about? 

It makes it real hard to read when you try to split your entire thought between the subject and tags areas. 

I may be incorrect and you are welcome to correct me with facts if I am but I don't believe that the Red Light Cameras have been approved yet. They may be security cameras which are all over the place. 

But if they are, it is about time. Everyone that drives should ALWAYS be careful not to run red light whether there is a camera or not.

How about explaining to us what your beef is with the sign ordinance. Did somebody pee in your Wheaties because of some sign you had in your yard?

You certainly sound like a very disgruntled and unhappy individual. That's too bad. Life is too short to be that miserable all the time. I just can't imagine getting up every morning being that unhappy.

Mike Heemer

 It is already illegal if it's too big but I don't know if they have the guts to push it. One Co. down south tried with a car dealer and strred up a real hornets nest. It is a tuff call between person freedom and givinng up security. I personally have no problemm with wire taps when a muslim is calling from over seas, but do when my grand kids call me. I don't consider a camera at a traffic light near as much of an invasion as a neighbor being able to go on-line and know all about my personal finances with no good purpose in mind other than beimg nosey.

 I am strogly opposed to code enforcement's controlling messages on signs unless they're porn or vulgar. I hear there is a lawsuit over this and messages on an electromic sign in Green Cove. I sure hope the owner wins.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/travel/traffic/conditions/

Whoever is responsible for getting this loon a computer should be drummed right out of the Nerd Club. If this guy ever strings together enough words to from a coherent thought I may give the Infinite Monkeys with Infinite Typewriters a closer look.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Here's our government officials at work again. We pay these people with our taxes.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/15647114/detail.html?taf=jax

Angela,

You're right on this one.  I don't see how any person could consider this advertising.  Is the sign against a county code?  Quite possibly.  IF it is, OK go  & talk to the person, maybe it could be moved to where it would still be visible yet not violate the law.  One other question must be asked.  During this episode, how many misdemeanors, how many felonies were being commited?  How many law abiding drivers were put in peril by the usual amount of knuckledraggers behind the wheel violating a # of laws & putting lives & property at risk.

I, for one, would like to see a list of priorities by our officials.  Obviously, this person should be on the TEN MOST WANTED list.  By that, I mean that the community should want more like her.  JATFUR

RichK

Annabelle's is a long standing business in Clay County. I'm certain they have paid into the county coffers well over the years.

This sign ordinance has as ex says lawsuits concerning Camarda and Ronnie Robinson signs issues. Both are businesses in the county.

The way these people are handled in the county no wonder we can't get jobs in the county. Businesses are just beating down the door to get into this county. These are just a few I could list more of the same in the county.

Of course it's okay for the Thrasher Horne to have a flashing sign on College Dr. After all with Thrasher being a Commissioner it does help get things passed.

I just drove past the new Wally World on College and Blanding. The 'cameras' are not cameras as far as I can tell. To me they look like the traffic sensors to control the lights.

As for the banner? Are these code enforcement people really that stupid?

Mike Heemer

This is a little like the NFL going after the Church for having a Superbowl Party.   You just wanna go "HUH?"

Thats a code that should be amended to allow for Patriotic Displays in times of "war".

That Thrasher Horne sign is an eyesore.  Not the size, nor the height, nor even the name, it's just an uggggglllyyyyyyy sign.   It should have looked more like the marquis for the College. 

It's also pretty lame every Saturday morning when people put out their garage sale signs around 9 or 10 you can always count on the Counties "Sign Nazi" to pick them up and throw them in the back of his truck.  Most people pick their stuff up after the sale.  If the county is actually going to waste pay, gasoline and a vehicle to pick up signs like that  he ought to pick up trash along his route.  Actually earn his county pay.

Just a thought.

So when a Hess gas station has a banner out selling Pepsi or Coke then thats illegal? 

blocking the scenery,

Clay County  sign ordinances   54 pages of rules and regulations about signs, 

http://00de622.netsolhost.com/Departments/Enforcement/Code_Enforcement/Sign%20Code.pdf

Talk about signs. I had feeling these people were crazy. This is a sure sign that they are. I hope the BCC reads my email. 

Mike Heemer

Cheryl Miller, Clay County Code Enforcement, has stated in an email (found in public records search) that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the message on the banner in front of Anabelle's. The same message may be used on a hard surface, no larger than 3 square feet, and within 6 feet of the building.

Our less than stellar Commissioners have decided that "Freedom of Speech" signs need to be made of a hard material. No bigger than 3 square feet. No higher than 6 feet in height. And then they must be within 6 feet of the main building.

That's how our Commissioners see freedom of speech in Clay County. Unless you count the 3 minutes you get to discuss all of the county's problems at the BCC meeting.

Heaven forbid if you made a statement close to a public road on a banner someone might actually see the sign.

Of course if you have connections you could get a sign on College Dr at the Thrasher Horne.

I love being an American as much as anyone else.  With family circumstances, I never say the pledge, or sing the national anthem, or even see a flag waving in the breeze without a special feeling rising up in my heart.  But . . .

"We" want to preserve and protect our environment from all sorts of things, including visiual blight.  We expect the government to enact ordinances to help us achieve that goal.  Wah-lah - the sign ordinance.  The ordinance regulates types and sizes and locations of signs.  Not content.  If the sign, whatever its message, is non-conforming (illegal), it must come into compliance, or be removed.

If Annabelle's wants to demonstrate their patriotism, simply follow the sign ordinance.  Problem solved.

If Annabelle's should be allowed to break the law (maintain an illegal sign), because of patriotic (political?) content, what other messages should be allowed to be displayed on illegal signs?  Maybe a church advertisement?  Political campaign messages?  Baby-sitting services?  Other commercial messages?

This is a case of "killing the messenger".  The County is doing exactly what it is supposed to.  Exactly what we ask it to do.  Enforce the legal ordinances that we expect to be in place to keep Clay County an attractive place to live.  Patriotic content does not override a standing ordinance.  As far as I'm concerned, the County's sign ordinance is not strong enough.  And if you really believe people go back and pick up their yard sale signs, you're wrong.  Ever kinda service in the world is advertised by illegal signs posted on trees, poles, transformer boxes, etc.  They all must be removed - at County (read: taxpayer - you) expense.  But, hey, if they start to leave them all around - it would give us something else to complain about. ("That horrible BCC/County gov't. won't even go around and pick up all of those illegal signs.  Run the bums out!!")  Pretty close huh?

PS - Ever notice how minimal the signage is in the Eagle Harbor/Fleming Island area along CR-220?  Surely over a hundred businesses in that less than a mile stretch, and not one gaudy neon sign - or non-conforming banner.  Those signs are regulated by the even stricter requirements of the DRI in that area.

What?  A developer's own rules that are MORE restrictive, and much more attractive, than the County's own ordinance. Say it ain't so.

Okay then what excuse do we have for the ugly blight on College Dr with a neon sign at the Thrasher Horne. Other than the right connections.

Touche'.

Excuse?  It'll take me a few months to read the 54 pages of sign ordinances, but i would imagine, IMAGINE, that these permanent signs have some type of pre-approval, maybe or maybe not.  With all of the rules i glanced at, there has got to be lots of research put into what the sign's shape can be, where it can be, etc.  The sign at Ridgewood Baptist cost 40K dollars.  The sign was put in and the digital portion of the sign changed by the minute.  This was deemed illegal and now it only displays one message per day.  I attend SJRCC daily and unless i have paid no attention, the sign at thrasher-horne only displays on message per day or at a time.  While it may be ugly to you, if it was illegal, i would think that it would face the same consequences as Annabelles who chose no to do the research in order to follow the rules in regards to signs.  The content on the sign is irrelevent, the manner in which it is placed and displayed is the problem.  While you and others may think that this is stupid and contradictive to other signs in the county, it is still not logical to change the subject of Annabelles disregarding the ordinances.  if the county allows one to break the rules, then they will open themselves up to much controversy as there may already be.

Don, i've sen what you think are cameras and i don't think they are cameras, don't get me wrong b/c i don't know for sure what they have up there.  Now based on some prior postings, i'm assuming that you don't like comm. bush?  Please remember though, everything to my knowledge that affects the county directly and is a county issue, the entire commission votes upon, so if you don't like comm. bush's ideas, consider that if approved the whole board gave it's stamp.  

Foxx this is what you call the right connections. Something Annabelle's must not have in the county. I will say the sign posted there looks much better. Equal treatment?

BCC Minutes dated June 13, 2006

St. Johns River Community College Thrasher-Horne Center Signage – A letter was received from Mr. Dale Wilson requesting the county’s assistance regarding signage for the Thrasher-Horne Center. Staff has researched the statutes and the county’s sign ordinance. The report of findings is attached for your consideration.

County Attorney Scruby discussed his research on this issue and he recommended that the Board proceed with caution because of a pending court case. It was the CONSENSUS of the Board to take no action today but leave the door open for the staff at St. Johns Community College to continue discussions with county staff.

Well they discussed the matter and the sign is up there. Just take a little ride down College Drive and you will see the blight.

Angela, 

Yes, the content on the sign at annabelles and the sign itself look better than the sign at thrasher-horne in your opinion.  I see it not on the content side of things, but reverse which looks better in my opinion.  Let me also say that i have nothing against annabelles displaying their support for the troops, i just think it should be displayed properly even if other businesses decide not to do so.  Equal treatment from the commission, NO, but what is right? 

As far as thrasher-horne sign is concerned, we'll have to agree to disagree on it being ugly.  But you win on the legality until i can do more research if there is even anything else to research. 

I don't know the correct facts either, but my recollection is that the debate was whether an additional sign was legal on the property, since there was one to advertise SJRCC.  I recall the final decision was that since the Thrasher-Horne Center was deemed a seperate facility, the sign would be allowed.

If you get a chance, check the minutes of the meeting where it was approved to see how close I am.

I haven't met a sign yet I really like, but I accept they are a legal & economic reality.  1st Amendment and all, you know.  I still like less-sign better than more-sign.  The one at Thrasher-Horne is tasteful and not overly large.  As much as I dislike signs, I still think they should have a right to advertise along the road to help promote the success of Clay County's cultural jewel.

Customers will find a good business without having to be blinded by some 40' tall tacky neon sign.  2 particlualr visual blight offenders are the Kangaroo in Clay Hill, and the Race Trac on Blanding in Middleburg.  I think the letters on that sign are 8+' tall.  It takes up the whole skyline as you head north toward it.  I bet the ad execs at Race Trac are really proud of themselves.  Thanks a lot - NOT!  I bet the gas stations on FI with the monument style solid signs that have uplighting sell just as much gas as the Kangaroo or the Race Trac.

Now we're getting down to business.  Baxley, the way your so impressed with Eagle Harbor/Fleming Island signage it's time to move from Clay Hill and join the up and coming stars there.  Sorry that the Kangaroo way out there in the middle of no where is such an eye sore.  I guess it gets in the way of the turkey buzzards searching for breakfast.

Instead of paying a county employee to drive around on Saturdays and pull signs why not put the crooks in jail that job or maybe all those at juvy hall.  That way they can pick up signs and trash at the same time.

My version of the ugly blight on College Dr and the sign.

Sign ordinance says one (1) sign per place. The SJRCC has a sign. They wanted another sign because they have alot of frontage and wanted to highlight the Thrasher Horne Center. They had to have it approved by the BCC because it was against the sign ordinance. Thus the minutes provided above.

I agree Baxley people will find the SJRCC without some tacky neon sign. So why do they get to violate the sign ordinance with 2 signs? Maybe because it has the name Thrasher and Horne on the building and Thrasher was a sitting Commissioner at the time.

Clay County's cultural jewel please a tourist trap. Sometime when I'm not busy I will research how much Toursit Development Taxes (TDC) were spent on that building and continues to be spent on that building. Tourist trap indeed if you believe that story.

I see the building it is part of the College can't miss the thing. I see the tacky neon sign can't miss it either. I just don't see the tourist. Well they are probably still stuck on Blanding in the traffic with the rest of us. If it didn't have Thrasher Horne on it we probably wouldn't see it either with the tacky neon sign.

Annabelle's needs to move their sign up close to the building because someone might see it and actually think we support our military in Clay County.

I believe Garber hired a  lawyer (past county commisioner) and was allowed to place more signs on hwy 17. Seems like Thrasher cntr did the same. The sign at Annabells is no different than the banner above the entrance to Middleburg Elem, and it has been there for many months. I have no problem with the ordinance its just that the enforcement seems to depend on who you are. Ever see all the schools and churches on and around the holidays selling trees and pumkins, they always have banners. This morning I saw the Middleburg civic assoc. placed an illegal sign at the intersection of 218 and Blanding advertising some event. Do you think the county will be out to remove it? The sign ordinance keeps trash off the roads it's just time to enforce it equally across the board! 

bmbbuilder;

Whoa! Back up there podner, you ain't sayin us Churches is gettin special treatment are ya? Thems fightin words round heah.

You must have been smokin some of that stuff your horse left on the ground.

We aren't getting any special treatment, we pay taxes just like everybody else you know.

Sorry about that, we don't really, but we never mess in those secular politics so you just leave us out of that fight.

Darn! Sorry about that too. We do but you don't have to tell everybody about that. We try to keep that just amongst friends.

Except when we really want to try to bend everybody to our will. Then we might have to spend some of that donated cash money to get the word out on TV and Radio and such. 

We might tell some of our folks to get out there and carry some signs, especially if it's about them gay folks or them murdering abortion folks.

Sometimes we might have to tell folks not to vote for some heathen that doesn't agree with us but we really aren't getting involved in politics you understand.

We're just trying to minister to our own folks and leave those others alone don't you know.

Mike Heemer

Why should I have to move to FI to avoid ugly signs?  Are you saying the people in CH don't deserve a decent commercial boulevard?  You're kidding right?  Turkey buzzards searching for breakfast?  What?  Hello - is anybody in there?  Turkey buzzards?  OK.  I'll see your turkey buzzards, and raise you a squashed possum, a bloated dead dog, and a pair of smashed cats.  I love buzzards.  Nature's garbage men.

But you're way too smart for me, tying them into the sign debate.  I'll try harder.

For what it's worth, I'll keep CH & the goofy Kangaroo sign, and all our other warts, anyday over FI/EH.  It's a great place to visit (and build houses), but I wouldn't want to live there.

Big ugly signs suck. (BUSS)

Black vulture   Coragyps atratus

As seen hanging around our neighborhood....just across the creek from EH/FI