Commissioner Bush Please Leave Law enforcement up to A Professional the Sheriff-RED LIGHT CAMERAS

I am for ANYTHING that will support traffic safety and hold speeders, light runners, and aggressive drivers accountable for their actions.........including a Public Safety Tax. 

Actually Don I think the Sheriff has been on board with this for a long time. The Sheriff in Duval is trying to get the same thing in his county.

It is about time that we start using some technology other than boots on the ground to fix a huge problem around here.

The issue is that most of the idiots driving don't or won't follow the law. I hear all the excuses about the light turned red too soon. That is pure BS.

Yellow lights are timed to give you a reaction time and time to stop before the light turns red based on the speed limit, average reaction time and average stopping time/distance.

The issue is that people think that yellow means they can continue to move through the intersection until they can see the light actually red. By that time it is too late and they have already broken the law.

It is past time to do whatever we can to make these people understand that their actions are going to cost them money.

I also think that the ticket should go to the vehicle. If you loan your car to some idiot that runs a red light, oh well. You pay the fine because it is your car. If you can't prove that the vehicle was stolen, too bad.

Mike Heemer

...that we ask the Powers That Be at My Clay Sun to demand a minimum IQ to be allowed on this site. Specifically, at least, an IQ in triple digits. A basic knowledge of the English language and an ability to write a coherent sentence would also be nice.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Spoken like a true Democrat.

I'm not a Democrat, just someone who wants to see the roads safer.  Too many people are dying, and people need to be held responsible.   I heard that "Public Safety Tax" phrase on the tv last night when they were doing a news documentary on the crime in Jax.

Peoples behavior while behind the steering wheel of a vehicle is one of few things I harp about in here.

I'm just willing to pay my share to see it change is all.  So far as the two party thing, I'm a registered Republican but I vote my conscience which at times includes Democratic candidates and/or their ideas. 

At least the subject is not CCAC. Though it might as well be. Different subject same gist.

I'm sure you have picked up on this but I'd say that this is SPOT disguised as Don99977.

Did he have some offensive signs posted someplace that didn't meet code and they were picked up by someone from the county?

Perhaps now he has shifted his focus to trying to get rid of the current Sheriff for Mike Taylor in addition to pinging one off of Commissioner Bush?

I could be way off base here but I think I might be close enough to get back in case of a pickoff throw.

Mike Heemer

I have really become tired of that word.  Every time you turn around lets tax this or lets tax that. 

Will the camera's stop the red light running...... I doubt it.  No points accessed just a little bit more money for the County to do absolutely nothing with.  If we didn't have to put a red light on every other corner, traffic would proably run a lot smoother and less people will suddenly saying "I will not stand in line any longer" and boom there they go.

There are more important "fish to fry" in Clay County then spending the money that we don't have and put up cameras that we don't need.  Maybe more effort should be put forward by the BCC to get the conjested road improvements started to ease this problem.  Why has it taken them so long to 4 lane the rest of 220 especially at the instersection of 220 and 209?  The money supposedly is set aside but I can't remember when I saw the last road work being done other then the State project enlarging the Doctors Inlet Bridge, anywhere around Orange Park, Middleburg.  Pot holes just keep getting bigger on Brannon Field however Public Works sure makes sure that the grass is cut all along SR 215 wonder if the County Commissioner for that district lives out there or has family that does.

This is a way to generate revenue with less cost to the county. It's sad they can't use the money to fix the real problems with the red light runners in Clay County. The road and traffic congestion is the major problems with red light runners in Clay County. So much time is spent getting in to and out of the county due to congestion it has a tendency to cause people to make up time by running lights and aggressive driving.

No matter how much money you give them it's never enough and they need more. At the rate we are going we can soon just sign over our paychecks to them. I doubt if that would fix the problems but at least they would be happy. Another tax with a different name.

Or should I say County instead of District?  I was stopped at a red light at the intersection of Old Jennings and Brannan Field last week and I was thankful the SUV in front of me didn't immediately go when our light turned green.  Some horses rear end BLEW through the light WELL after it turned red.  There were at least 4 people in the SUV (two were children) It made my stomach churn at the thought of the carnage.  I  say bring on the cameras. I agree with Mike too.  The cameras are cheaper than "boots on the ground" (great phrase!) in the long run and it will free LEO manpower.

Don can ping 'em off Comm. Bush all he wants. Good ole Goerge didn't care when he WAS running for re-election and now he's termed out so anything he gets thrown at him he will either use for his posturing on the dias(sp?)or he will just ignore it.  Either way it goes it's entertainment for the audience and for George himself.

Lily..is horses rear end one, two, or three words? 

I am so sick of Bush's history stories of his life on the Board floor. Who cares? I could only hope one day the FBI would show up and help him down to the office in Jax. I think they would throw and old fashion street party in the County.

Finally and with the great retirement benefits of a commissioner and all the other kudo's I'm guessing that his insurance agency is mearly a hobby.

I would support a 4 year term limit if someone started the petition to get it on the ballot.

He turns over the gavel at the meetings but still retains the power.

Am I suppose to think because Bradley can run a meeting he is the making of a great Commissioner. Chairman no less. The standards must be low in the county. After the big legal blunder he made at the other Commissioner's meeting. Way to go! I think Bradley has been the only person in the county who could make Scruby look good.

1.  Did he have to give up his position as Keystone Heights City Attorney or did he stay at that post?

2.  Isn't it a conflict of interest since he represents a city and a District?  At least I don't think they are in the same district.  Whats he do if the issue conflict ?????

He is a paid attorney for both Keystone and Orange Park. So he isn't required to give up his positions. Conflict, well Bradley says we should just trust him that he doesn't violate any of the conflict laws.

I love it when the government tells me to just trust them.

No points accessed just a little bit more money for the County to do absolutely nothing with.

Perhaps there is where we really part company on this subject. I never said anything about no points. In fact I said that the ticket goes to the vehicle but maybe I should be more specific when I say that.

My point of view is that the points follow the vehicle. You own it, you not only pay the fine you get the points that go with running a red light.

For a first offense it'll cost you $250. For a second offense $500 plus you lose your license for 180 days and it goes up from there. If there is an accident you are at fault. If a death occurs with the accident you are charged with vehicular manslaughter. It's pretty simple. Put some teeth in the law and bight a few people on the butt.

Of course I also think that DUI/DWI should be felonies and anyone that causes a death in an accident while DUI/DWI should be charged with at least second degree murder for a first offense and first degree murder if it is a second offense. 

Mike Heemer

I won't disagree on anything said about the roads, pot holes can cause accidents as well and they are deadly when traveling at high speed.  Where safety is concerned I agree, I think preserving life is important too though.  With that being said do you really believe it's a comparable issue, congestion and traffic fatalities? People who run lights and race and speed are killing innocent people.  Do the two really compare at all? If their selfish stupidity effected only them I wouldn't care but it doesn't...so I do. 

It's in use in many other American and foreign cities.  It's not, however, something a sheriff can institute on his or her own.  Commissioner Bush wanted to begin the process that may eventually enable the project.

Commissioner Rutledge mentioned the possibility that cameras in intersections may actually cause more accidents from drivers stopping short, afraid of getting their picture taken.  He appeared ready to offer reference to some evidence, possibly anecdoctal from his years of experience as a law enforcement officer.  Harold got cut short, though I would have preferred to hear his officer's perspective if nothing else.

If cameras are installed, it won't take long for regular Clay County drivers to develop a slightly different rhythm to their rush-hour dance.  And common sense seems to indicate it would be a safer overall pace.  As long as it's not cost-prohibitive, and Rutledge or others can't prove it doesn't achieve its intended purpose, I'm all for the cameras.  Have been since I first heard about the program years ago.

It's not like anyone is forcing folks to run the red lights.  This'll just be taking a picture of them when they do, and mailing them the ticket for their traffic infraction. 

Michael S. Mann

THose aren't my words about "No Points" thats how it will be in Duval and probably here.

 I agree totally on the DUI/DWI to often do you hear of the 3rd and 4th offender.  Thats crap.

At a certain point/or age in a driving career it should be mandatory to take another driving test to show that you still remember the rules of the road.

like rolling stops, running red lites, use of items like your signal light. 

What really appauls is the number of "County Vehicles" that are mainly white and green that break more rules of the road then the average person.

Congestion does lead to people blowing through red lights and stop signs.  they get aggrivated and tired of sitting in stalled traffic for ever.  IF some how the "powers to be" could fix signal lights that would change in series that would be great also.  You can solve anything with 2 traffic lights green then all of a sudden the 3rd turns red, then turns green along with the 4th and then the next 3 or 4 are red again.

The traffic light at the corner of 220 and Lakeshore they had camera's or something on them and it's intent was to slow people down and make them obey the law of the road.  Don't know why they ever took them down. 

I only knew about them while riding with a friend several times that liked the fuzz buster and that bugger went off ever time we approached the intersection.  Then as fast as it went up it was down.

Mea Culpa. You are correct about the points. I do remember reading someplace that they may not attach points to these tickets.

There was also an article in today's TU about revenue from the tickets. Perhaps I should have read it more carefully this morning.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/031308/opi_256275300.shtml

I guess the 'loop hole' 'civil violations' answers the question of why no points. Apparently you can issue the civil violations and keep all the money without giving points or you can wait for our fast acting legislature to pass a bill that lets you give points but get less than half the money from the ticket.

I read the article twice and still didn't understand all of it. Of course with our sound bite journalism and newspapers that doesn't surprise me. Or maybe it's just my lack of comprehension. 

Darn I love this state and their forward thinking leaders. 

Mike Heemer

I'm all for the lights at intersections.  Too bad they can't come up with a giant sledge hammer that would smash the offending driver's car at the same time (a joke).  Using technology to help for less money is a great idea.

How many times have security cameras at various locations helped solve crimes?  I've read that in London they have over 1,000,000 cameras postd throughout the city.  Seems a little creepy, but honestly, I never give them another thought.  Take a second to look around now when you're shopping, parking, etc.  - they are everywhere.

The saying about giving up privacy/freedom for security comes to mind.  Like everything else, there is a balance there somewhere.

But - YES to cameras at intersections.

Lily..is horses rear end one, two, or three words?

Three words although you need an apostrophe (horse's)  to indicate the rear end belongs to the horse. (there is no such word as "rearend".) I understand the confusion. You have one miscreant that requires three words to adequately describe him / her.

 By the way, I am really surprised that anyone found the incoherent nonsense posted by good old Don "Borat" 99977 worthy of reply. My only comment had nothing to do with the topic so my hat is off to you guys for creating the Silk Purse, as it were.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Lily;

You know that one. If a blogger gives you lemons make lemonaide and if that leaves a sour taste in your mouth make 'Sweet' tea. 

Mike Heemer

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, 22 percent of all traffic accidents in the United States are caused by drivers running red lights. Every year, these accidents kill some 800 people and rack up an estimated $7 billion dollars in property damage, medical bills, lost productivity and insurance hikes. And this sort of traffic violation seems to be on the rise. In many areas, red-light violations have increased by 10 percent or more since the 1980s.   (www.howstuffworks.com)

How Stuff also said or almost proved what former deputy and commissioner ruteledge was trying to say.  The triggers are beneath the road usually at the latter part of the big white line.  So if someone was going too fast approaching the intersection and wanted to stop to avoid the ticket, it could cause an accident, however, the webpage also says that the cameras aren't even on or operational until the light turns red.  So this is two fold, it could tell who caused he accident trying to stop at the intersection, but yet as long as drivers are past the white line and in the intersection while the light is still yellow, the camera is not operational and does not impose a fine. 

All technical and government revenue issues aside, these stats above should be enough for anyone to support red light cameras. 

Back to Government issues, onemann or anyone who knows, who gives the final approval on the sheriffs department budget and would red light cameras be included in their budget, if the commission approves the budgets, then why wouldn't bush have a say in law enforcment subjects? 

I spoke with Mr. Taylor today and asked his thoughts on cameras at intersections to stop red light violations.  He told me that he had already spoken to some county officials about this possibility several months ago when he started his campaign.  He said that this has been done effectively elsewhere in the state and that in order to start such a program it will most likely require a county ordinance change. 

He told me that there are constitutional issues citing the owner of a vehicle for a violation that is photographed, not eye witnessed.  He seemed to be well informed on the subject.  He said, the fines do not attach points to the license because they are not violations of traffic statutes, they would be violations of a county ordinance.  This is how he explained it has been done in other parts of the state.  He also told me that he has a plan to discuss the implementation of such a program and believes he can do it at no cost to the county. 

Of course, I was very impressed.  Maybe Commissioner Bush or County manager Behring could save some money on their surveys to call Mr. Taylor like I did.

Sleuth, you know I like your consistency. Got to get a plug in for MikeT at every opportunity. Not that I disagree with what MikeT said it's just that I get tired of the same old same old Beseler bashing. Give it a break already.

Did you happen to call the current Sheriff to ask his opinion? For that matter did you call any of the other candidates? Never mind, I already know the answer to that question.

Yes I can do that myself but I'd sure like to hear what others have to say from you. It would at least give you some credibility. For now, you pretty much sound like the Mike Taylor lap dog. I can only assume that you think if it didn't come out of Mike's mouth it isn't worth hearing or knowing.

I don't know Mike nor do I know you. For all I know you could be one and the same. But it's getting to the point that most of your info is becoming pointless because it is SO one sided.

Experience seems to make a big difference! Can you document for me how much experience Mike Taylor has as Sheriff? I must have missed that line in his Bio. Last time I checked Sheriff Beseler has close to 4 years. Good, bad or indifferent I'd say Beseler has Taylor beat on that one.

Mike Heemer

It looks like Bush is attempting to take over law enforcement with his idea. He's been in the school system, the commissioner, maybe he wants to try out for Sheriff now.

Well he can't do any worst than what we been subjected to in Clay County so far.

Mr. Finder,

I am NOT a lap dog for Mr. Taylor!  But, it is obvious I like what I see.  More than that, Sheriff Beesler has been Sheriff for almost 4 years.  Why has he not presented any information to the County Commission on this in the past 4 years?  He is certainly all about traffic tickets!  And, if you don't disagree with what Mr. Taylor said, why would get tired of hearing about him. 

I admit I am not a Beesler fan, but I was.  I also admit that some of my previous blogs were directed at some of the things I really don't like about him.  But, I am not Beesler bashing in this blog, I am just saying Mr. Taylor seems to have real law enforcement experience and I like it. 

I also thought if the County Commissioners thought Sheriff Beseler had that experience, they would have invited his input instead of asking a county manager what he thought.  Just my thoughts on the subject.  Thank you for your's.

I wouldn't get to work up over all of this. Beseler singled you out in a letter that he wrote to the MCS newspaper.

In that article he stated that you have written in a blog about the investigations concerning the mismanagement and the illegal dumping in the county and that not being conducted by the Sheriff's Office.

He firmly stood behind the premise that his office did not do any investigations concerning the illegal dumping. What ever happened to the grand jury report concerning mismanagement is still a mystery.

However he did state he hired the investigator who did the investigations for the State Attorney's Office.

Seeing how those have turned out with all the charges of Ms. Fitzgerald being found not guilty on all of them so far. I don't think I would be bragging about the hiring of that investigator if I was him. But that just me and my thoughts.

All I'm saying is if you are going to post Mike Taylor information why not just start it with:

This is an unpaid and unsolicited political announcement for Mike Taylor or against Sheriff Beseler.

Most of your posts are in that format anyway. Just once I'd like to hear your opinion about something other than how much better Mike Taylor would be than the current Sheriff or what Mike Taylor thinks about something. You do have ideas and opinions of your own don't you?

My sources inside his campaign ... I spoke with him today .....

You sound just like one of those talking heads I turn off every time I see them on TV or hear them on the radio.

I'm pretty sure he knows how to read and write. I would be more interested in what he has to say if it came out of his mouth rather than hearing it second hand from the head butter passer on the chow line. 

Mike Heemer

Finder,

You sure know how to lay it out on the table. ^5

Lily, I was really joking when I asked but now the joke is on me.  The way I put it several horses would be sharing one posterior! Thanks for the laugh and the "tune up" on my less than stellar english!

Are you the reincarnation of my freshman english teacher??? She always had hope for me!

But,  back to the thread....Bring on the red light cameras

This is an unpaid and unsolicited political announcement and we as voters need to turn out all elected officials every 4 years.

That's how you clean out the government.

Along with some cameras for the red light runners we should add a few cameras behind the scenes of the BCC and we can have a little more sunshine in there too.

I think some cameras on the front of all CCSO vehicles would be a great asset too. Cameras on their Tasers. GPS tracking devices on all government vehicles.

Come on Commissioner Bush you are leaving anyway. Step up and think outside the box.

Angela;

Now that's what I'm talking about! 

Be up front about it. I'm not sure that I agree with everything you said, but the parts on the cameras and the GPS I certainly agree with.

As for dumping all of them after 4 years - some are past their expiration date long before that. But I don't think all of them suddenly turn out to be a bad choice just because they won an election.

Mike Heemer

I support cameras on tasers and patrol car dash board cameras. One it provides me protection against false complaints and two I would love for their family, friends, judge and jury to see just how this defendant sitting in court today was acting when he/she was arrested. Because there are people that are in denial about how they conduct themselves and feel they are entitled to do whatever they want. Most of it goes back to poor parenting.

Finder

Shelf life is different from expiration date; the former relates to quality, the latter to safety. A product that has passed its shelf life might still be safe, but quality is no longer guaranteed. Shelf life is maximised by using rotation.

All are past their shelf life after 4 years

Angela;

Dang, I hate it when you do that!    I should have known that there was a logical explanation for your statements.

Your 'expiration date' v 'shelf life' is just like my 'votes counted' v 'votes counting' in the Primary.

I can't say that I agree that all elected officials reach their shelf life or expiration date in one 4 year term but I certainly understand where you are coming from.

Better to get rid of it than take the chance that it might be bad?

Mike Heemer

Sorry Pioneer is late jumping into this conversation, but better late than never.

Sleuth must be referring to the same Mike Taylor who has been going around for the last 6 months slamming the sheriff for writing too many traffic tickets? Now Taylor proposes red light cameras! Also, when it came to "his ideas" about how to pay for them, Sleuth, at no cost to the county, could you and Taylor have forgotten the idea CAME from the sheriff who discussed this some months back? Sheriff Beasler explained that the manufacturer of the cameras installs, maintains, and operates them in exchange for a percentage of the revenue generated. I have been reading the same information in the T-U about how the tickets are handled as county ordinance violations, not state violations.

It sounds like Mike Taylor is taking credit for ideas that may not be his own.

USF does a study about cameras and red light runners.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080315/NEWS/803150427/1134

I have lived in Middleburg and worked in Downtown Jax for 15 years.  I have never been late nor have I run through a red light.  Maybe we can have a TAX that will be spent on educating people on how to get up 15 minutes earlier, leave with enough time to take into account accidents, and other congestion.  Then we can have another TAX to give the BCC another raise to make more TAX decisions.  

I have been late to work numerous times attempting to get out of Clay County into Jax for work. This 15 minutes early must be a joke. I now leave an hour early for work and get home over an hour later. That means I have to get up real early to leave. If you will notice none of our Commissioners work in Jax either. I don't run red lights. I always wait despite the fact some horn blowers thinks its a race track and the second the light changes I should pull out there. I wait to make sure everyone stops.

Thanks to all those Commissioners who thought we needed to build some more houses out here and the roads were just a mere after thought.

Well it was a little late to think about that after we win the longest commute time award in the State of Florida.

An Attorney General's Office opinion that says a law enforcement officer must actually see a driver run a red light.

I didn't see Scruby speak up and say he was not so thrilled about the prospect of going forward with an unconstitutional plan. As a matter of fact I didn't see him speak up when the Commissioners voted on the board floor to dump all the stuff they didn't want in the landfill either. We see how much money that cost the taxpayers.

Of course constitutional reasons would not stop the Commissioners going forward the only good thing then Commissioner Bush will be gone and we will not hear about all the insurance claims from whiplash due to rear end crashes.

Maybe one of them will get the study and fix the signals, roads and congestion but then that doesn't generate revenue.

Angela;

Were you the only person on your street when you moved here or did you move onto a street that already had houses? If it was the latter I'd say you caused a relative traffic jam on the road by moving there. Did your neighbors complain that the BCC shouldn't have let them 'over build' on that street?

Instead of ranting all the time about the population growth, the building, the traffic and in general hootin and hollerin about every elected official in CC perhaps you should move closer to your work.

That is allowed you know. I'm pretty sure you can still buy a house in Duval or any other county of your choice.

The real solution to these issues is to get some jobs out here. That probably isn't going to happen any time soon because people like to maintain Clay as a 'bedroom' community. Well those types of communities have traffic because everyone has to leave for work and come back home at night.

I don't even want to get into what this place looks like on a Sunday morning. But I'm pretty sure that we are not going stop build more churches on 17 any time soon.

Mike Heemer

If the Commissioners only wanted a bedroom community then roads should of been a top priority of the Commissioners. An infrastruture tax was imposed on the citizens by an ordinance several years ago. I would like to asked what happened to that money and why don't we have any infrastructure for that money that long time residents have been paying for a lot longer than the newly aquired citizens. I am certain if you add all the additional taxes placed on the long time residents that they have been collecting over the years it would make the impact fees small.

If the only solution was jobs then why did we wait until now when we want to build the Outer Beltway and have all the traffic problems for the long time residents to continue to pay for road. Hopefully all the newcomers to the county will use that road and let the long time residents use the free access we have more than paid for over the years.

Hope you noticed what they have done to the prices of our homes out here and the market flooded with homes new and used that can't be sold.

I'm certain all the public officials would just love for the citizens to shut up and move away and not talk about the mess they have made in the county.

Jobs? Commissioner Bush is still laughing right now about the warehouse jobs coming.

Foot note: I think the Commissioners made an ordinance to allow churches in any zoning in the county. You should speak to them about all the churches too. Or as Commissioner Bush would say never vote in opposition to the churches in the county.