Conservative and Liberal and the generation Gap

Kind of like this entire blog or fog of the mind.  What in the hell is wrong with you phony conservatives who think that this country is headed in a downward spiral towards absolute destruction.  The largest military and one of the highest gnps in the world and all of the sudden the government is going to destroy us. 

You need to get out more, to say that liberals or at least the ones you know have little to no values is rubbish.  Unless you work at a strip club that sells dope to its customers and the only people they hire and have as customers are liberals, i would tend to think that liberals hold themseleves to higher standards than what you desrcibed.  By no means am i a liberal mainly because i think they're wrong on every political issue in the country, but this dosen't mean they hold no value. 

 The rich are taxed more because they make more and the poor are taxed less because they make less, it's a simple concept.  Sure they're are loop holes and maybe the money that is taken in from taxes is given to the wrong people or programs sometimes, but i don't know how it's disbursed and neither do you. 

 You've fallen into the same propaganda bull that you described in your media segment, get your head out of your butt and make staements to improve the ideaologies of this GREAT country, you're doing nothing but sitting on the side lines.

Wow, what a pleasant comment to step into.

Here's a link to a fictional story that might explain why ex, I, and many others don't understand the simple concept of 'tax the rich'.

http://www.thrivingnow.com/for/Rick/a-modern-fable-of-taxing-the-rich/

As you are obviously more educated than I am in the subtleties of economics and high finance I'll leave it to you to figure out what other country name you could substitute.

I'm certainly glad to see that you people in a higher tax bracket than me don't mind paying more than your fair share. You are in one of those high tax brackets right? 

Mike Heemer

So should the rich be taxed or not, more or less with or without higher or lower tax reductions?  And don't assume that i'm smarter or more educated than you based on my spur of the moment slap in the face to ex-o.

Actually I think everyone, and I mean everyone that earns money should pay 10% to the government. If it's good enough for the church it's good enough for me. Oops, I keep forgetting God doesn't have an IRS to make sure everyone gives their tithe. But I digress, that is a subject for a different blog.

It's real simple. You earn a dollar; the employer takes 10 cents and sends it to Uncle Sugar just like he sends in your taxes now. No deductions, no rebates and no forms to file. Then we could get rid of 95% of the multibillion dollar IRS. Everyone pays their fair share.

In my opinion any other way is not far from socialism or communism. Take from the rich and give to the poor. Sorry, that was Robin Hood's motto wasn't it? 

Will this ever happen? Absolutely not. Not because we wouldn't generate more taxes but because we would put thousands of IRS government employees out of work along with killing the income tax service sector.

Mike Heemer

I couldn't think of a subject title for my blog. To have someone say every conservative they have met has strong values is certainly not dealing with reality.  To say that every liberal has no values is just as ignorant.

We have divided our country almost 50-50 between liberals and conservatives.  No side can knock out the other, in fact most of the bouts end in a draw, in fact a bloody draw.  Talk radio has done more to divide our country than any other single thing since slavery and the civil war.  The talking heads have made so many generalizations and statements that divided people it is sickening.  We don't talk politics among friends anymore.  

There are people out there who absolutely hate Hilliary Clinton.  I have heard them make comments about her that are just awful.  You might not like her ideas, but do you really hate the person?  If you hate her because you disagree with her, how can you claim to have high moral values? While I never voted for George Bush, I don't hate the man.  I admire him for sticking to his beliefs.  But, I reserve the right to think he has been dead wrong on many issues.  If that upsets you, then you are a victim of the news media and talk radio.  The very backbone of America is in the fact that we are supposed to be able to agree that we can disagree.  Peacefully and with mutual respect.  That respect is gone.  The extremists in both political parties have given the country a serious case of heartburn.  One of the reasons I believe that Obama will be elected is that he is running on the platform of change.  Does he have experience,  no.  But he is not the same old same old that both Clinton and McCain represent.  After all, how bad can he be?  We still have a Senate and a House of Representatives that has to pass legislation before anything becomes the law of the land. 

If the conservatives and liberals keep bashing each other like they have been doing for about 10 years, you will see candidates who say they want to change things winning more and more elections.  Right now electing either McCain or Hilliary is a guarantee that nothing is going to change, and brother we need some changes in America today. 

Quite frankly, I never thought I would say this, but I am seriously considering voting for Obama if I get the chance for two reasons, his call for change, and the fact that he is an outsider.

Once again, speaking strictly for myself, I would like to comment on the previous blogs. First, I think the principles defining conservatives versus liberals has been loaded up with many misconceptions. As I stated once before about the Mental Midget of Mendacity, talk show diarrhetic Stan Swart, proudly stated that "liberals help people while conservatives persecute and kill people". This kind of abomination is hailed by station bubblehead Andy Johnson, a twisted, fat man with many delusions of adequacy. This tag team of hatred continues to pick at the scabs of talk radio blunderings with the sole goal of riling the sub standard denizens of Northeast Florida. into thoughtless rage against the establishment mainly because they are not part of the "in" crowd. That being said I would urge both sides to attempt to better understand one another.

To me, conservatism is very small government. The feds should only be concerned with defense of the nation. Not since emperor wannabe FDR pushed for and got power authorizing broad federal control of labor relations, wages and hours, agriculture, business, and navigable streams have we seen so much government interference in people's lives. Republican and Democrat labels are inconsequential. It is more a case of power hungry individuals. Liberals seem bent on giving ever more power to government to meddle in our lives. Conservatives want government out of our lives. Taxes to the federal government could be cut drastically if they were limited to defense of the nation. Granted, state taxes would increase to take care of state needs. The proponents of this misguided Fair Tax program really need a lesson in economics. It is criminally immoral to do as they suggest because when you read the fine print, the IRS will not go away. They will simply be  given new job definitions. Plus it's too big a weapon in the feds arsenal to punish and regulate the every day citizenry.

I see I have meandered a bit off the point. But they are intertwined in my mind. (I have probably made a terrific case for funding more research to cure the mentally ill.)  I think over taxing the rich is inherently unfair. Sure there are plenty of rich CEOs who do not deserve what they get. High on the list are CEOs who get millions in compensation while cutting jobs and exporting them over seas. These people should be tarred and feathered. Then we  have extremely overpaid actors and rock stars. At least they rise and fall on their own merits. (Or lack thereof.) I still think a flat ten percent tax for everyone is the best way to go. Couple that with making our elected officials not be paid more than a stipend of ten dollars a year would go along way. Take away the incentive of raping the tax payers and I think we will see people tackle the job solely for the job's sake.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

If anyone is interested a real good book to read that may solve the whole tax problem is "The Fair Tax Book" By Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder.

In a nut shell the IRS is completely abolished. All citizens pay a flat tax on purchases made at a flat rate of 23%. The more money you spend the more taxes you pay. The richer you are usually means more spent, more taxes paid. poorer less purchases, less paid this 23% is collected by buisnesses and given to uncle sam. The other nice thing about this tax is people that cheat the goverment like drug dealers and folks being paid under the table will still be paying thier fair share with every purchase they make.

I know this sounds like an over simplification but if you read the book it is very interesting and good food for thought. By the way Hucklebee also supports this plan. 

TRUTHHURTS

I whole heartedly agree. Everyone interested in this topic should read this book. It will describe in great detail what a fraud the whole concept is. Afterwards, feel free to burn certifiable nut sack, Neil Boortz, in effigy. The Fair Tax is exactly the opposite and none of what it predicts will happen. Another really good reason NOT to vote for Huckabee.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Laughing hard

I expected nothing less

Lets burn the book too, very mature and very informative. So much for free thought and an exchange of ideas. I think I'll go burn it now.

Did you read it??? and if you did and disagree, a simple I disagree with it, would have been more to the point.

I wonder if someone came on and said lets burn an effigy of Obama, or Hillary, or Martin Luther King, if everyone would think that was ok too. Seems pretty hateful to me.

Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.

TRUTHHURTS

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

Liberals enable, conservative empower.

TRUTHHURTS

It is a simple disagreement. My (insert favorite deity here), don't get your panties in a wedgie. I think the so called Fair Tax is one of the all time worst ideas ever. They try to con you with the concept of abolishing the IRS knowing full well that will never happen. When it was pointed out to them that the starting tax rate of 23% would truly hurt the poor, what did they do? Claimed that the poor would get a pre-bate on taxes. (Keep in mind, 23% is just their starting point. There is no guarantee this won't increase as Congress continues to give themselves raises.) They pointedly neglect to admit that this would have the net affect of either creating an entirely new bureaucracy or simply telling IRS peons they now have a new job description. In any event, there will never be a net loss of government employees. Boortz, who is nothing but a talking head, wouldn't understand this. His whole shtick is too call people names and pound his own personal views (thought out or not) out on his chest like a gorilla with no rhythm. The beat is lousy and no one can dance to the tune. And in this case, no one should. Like every loony idea that comes up, once you find one flaw, the rest of it will collapse like a house of cards.

Note I pointedly stated "burn in effigy" unlike many who oppose political concepts and would like to go to the real thing.

Finally, if you're going to steal Dennis Miller's sign off quote, please steal the whole thing. I'm sure he would appreciate the honesty. And it would make you a better person.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I don't wear panties, and I am shaven clean like a babies bottton, must me the liberal in me.

And maybe you should read the book your facts are inaccurate.

Just because you shout louder doesn't make you right. Your displaying very mean and hatefull dialog.

TRUTHHURTS

TruthHurts:  I don't think you've been around long enough to realize that when it comes to politics, religion, and anything else that doesn't have common sense or logic attached to it, this is Lily - you never have to wonder what she's thinking or feeling. I for one, am impressed as well as amused by her "rantings".  I agree with her the majority of the time, and always make it a point to read anything with her "angry rat" avatar as it is an adventure on the blogs.

Her soft side is when she's discussing the kids and her classes, and her family. I look forward to meeting her in person one of these days, as she often 'speaks for me' and I would love to have her way with words...seriously.

TH - I'm fairly sure you'll disagree with me on everything since I am obviously one of those awful liberals.  However, I believe in less government, and that we should be taking care of each other rather than having political morons in charge of our lives.  This administration is the worst thing that ever happened in my lifetime to this country. The fewer laws the better, and fewer politicians telling us how to live our lives would be my choice.  To put liberals into a box is as unfair as putting conservatives in a box - we are all human, and have our individual rights and opinions (so far). 

Thanks,
JudyB

I think lily is a big girl and can speak for herself. I am happy she has a friend like you that is willing to jump to her defence.

Unlike you I do not subscribe to that fact that simply because the blog is being posted by lily, that common sense, logic, politics, or anything else, is the flavor of the day bathed in truth. Lily has her own agenda and her own beliefs and that is great I would never deny her that.

I do not pray to the godess lily and also have my own views.

When I suggest to a friend they may want to read a book. I do not taint what that person will read, or give them positive or negative input. I want that friend to read that book and come to thier own conclusions. Then discuss those in an adult way after they have finished. It's a great process.Thats what free thinking and education is all about.

With her last blog all she did was taint a concept to have people go out and read a book that she herself has not read, and investigating another side of this issue. I find that to be in conflict with the very concepts she claims to hold so dearly. 

To add insult to injury not only did she taint the concept of reading the book , she attcked in a hateful manor which I feel is wrong and uncalled for.

In my mind this is not condusive of free thought and learning, on the contrary it displays bias, ignorance, and hate.

Thats just my opinion I could be wrong.

 TRUTHHURTS

Well I have to chime in here. I will just simply add what I know item by item.

Neal Boortz did not invent the fair tax, he is simply a proponent and co-author of "The Fair Tax" book, along with Congressman John Linder who is a co-sponsor of HR-25.

Currently in our economy there is in every single item, service, or product we consume an embedded tax of approximately 22%. In otherwords, for every dollar we spend approx 22% of that dollar goes towards costs passed onto consumers by the manufactuer for their tax they pay to the government for the privilege of doing business in the US. That is before you make your  purchase and pay any sales tax.

The fair tax eliminates all income and business taxes- period.

Now the price of the product is 22% less than it was before because these costs incurred by the manufacturer no longer exist and are not passed onto the consumer.

The Fair Tax of 23% is now added to the cost of these products. If you buy an item for a dollar before, it  will be a dollar after the fair tax is implemented. But 23 cents goes directly to Uncle Sam by the vendor you made your purchase from. There are no tax forms, no deductions, no credits no laws, no amendments no nothing. Every soul that makes a purchase in this country will contribute to our economy and our tax system. Every visitor, illiegal, under the table ect ect - we all pay exactly the same based soley on our purchases, not on how much we make.

Every citizen will receive a 'pre-bate' on essentials, food , clothing , shelter based on household size- NOT income.

This bill currently in congress is the Most studied/analyzed tax reform in US history. Not by lawmakers or partisans but by independant economists nationwide. It is revenue neutral meaning we will suffer no loss of revenue to pay for ongoing programs nor will it create a 'surplus' of revenue. What it WILL do is create a thriving economy in which small business and large business alike will flourish. Companies will no longer seek to do business out of our country to avoid insurmountable tax burdens. Small business is the backbone of  our country. They will not have to seek "tax shelters' to stay in business.

This tax reform bill is the absolute kindest to our 'poor' The will get 100 % of their paychecks (like everyone else) in addition to the 'pre-bate' for essentials (like everone else) and have more buying power than before without spending anymore than they did before -unless they chose to.

The original book "Fair Tax" has been out for a while and is a very EASY read. But this month there is a follow up called 'The Fair Tax, Answering the Critics' This follow up book answers every single critique of this tax reform bill very simply. Much of the critisism stems from the naysayers who arbitrarily put in "amendments" and say that is why it wont work. It will work as written. It wont work if revised. It is NOT a starting pint. It is and should be passed as written or it will not work. People who criticize without reading the book or the bill itself and the research behind it are not giving it a fair chance.

RB

Nicely said I wish I had your gift of gab.

Nice to see a not so hostile face.

All I did was suggest a book to read and POW, I dont' understand it. I guess because I have'nt been on the blog pages as long as others it makes me dumb.

TRUTHHURTS

First to your credit, you are correct, I have not read the book. I am exercising the RichK/Solo Voce Act which states if I find someone so morally repugnant as a Boortz (in his case, Ann Coulter) then anything they say has no credibility. I am aware Boortz did not invent this scam. It was bandied about by others during the Clinton administration in competition with the Flat Tax folks. My differeces with the Flat Taxers are based on my belief that their starting point of 17% was still way too high but it was fairer than the socialist program put forth by the Fair Taxers. In your blog you do not address the biggest fault in the whole thing which is corporate greed. The Fair Taxers claim that there are 22% embedded taxes in any product sold and that should this idiot concept be adopted, Korporate Amerika will graciously reduce their sale price by that sum allowing retailers to pick up the expense of collecting the taxes to forward on to Uncle Sam. Well, you know the retailers are not going to want to absorb that cost so another couple of percent will have to be added onto the final cost at the cash register. Also, what guarantee is Korporate Amerika giving that they will lower the price by 22 or 23%? None that I have read about. When it comes to human nature always know it will come out for the worst in that natuure. Maybe you are not old enough to remember similar scams perpetrated on the citizenry. Way back in the 70s when you could by a can of coke for a dime, there was a sudden sugar shortage,. This "necessitated" the soda companies (Coke, Pepsi, RC etal...) to raise the price to a quarter, then 50 cents and so on. After sugar supplies returned to normal, Korporate Amerika took notice that even though prices rose in a usurious fashion people kept buying it. So the price never went back to a dime. This happens again and again. Coffee, gasoline, you name it. When these slimeballs see they can rape the economy while using us as the condom, they will continue to do so.

Pre-bates are another ludicrous concept. Employing more losers to do nothing but send out near worthless checks just to return the same money to the goverment when we buy something. Anyone else follow this? It is a scam pure and simple. The biggest winners here will be the Post Office.Unfortunately it relies on a high degree of naivetee and trust in Big Business. That way only spells economic disaster. It also never mentions that state taxes will not be replaced by this either so right away in Florida alone, another 7% will still be added making the tax bite a whopping 30%. And that's only for contemporary times. In the future when the government deems it needs more for itself (those congressleeches will never want to work free) that percentage will be revised upward. The whole concept of tax neutral is a fairy tale.

On another note, Truth, you act as if I am instigating a personal attack on you. I believe I mentioned this hideous concept first and you began the argument. At no time did I attack you personally. I attacked the bad idea. Boortz, as a quasi public figure is fair game. He is not intelligent and isn't even as amusing and entertaining as Rush Limbaugh. I don't know where Rush squats on this idea because I stopped listening to him when he endorsed George Bush. Also, I had listened to him for about 9 years previous to that and by that time, the schtick got old. It was time to move on. But I still like the most of the man's early ideas. Boortz is a poor pretender to the throne. Talk radio just is no longer an entertaing venue. (Although for penance, self mental flaggelation, I do tune into proverbial whack job, Andy Johnson once a week. I will defintiely rack up many indulgences for that alone.) I also note you continue to use Dennis Miller's sign off without giving credit to him. We established a long time ago that this was bad form. We don't have to agree on everything or even anything but we do have to be honest. SMunsey tried pasting Ann Coulter's writings without giving her credit and when it was pointed out he stopped. I give him credit for his honesty. You should do the same. Most of the bloggers respect anothers work and so when using someone's writings give that writer the credit.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Lily

I just looked at the magnitude of your last blog, and quite frankly I am not even going to read it, I will not go back and fourth simply for the sake of argueing.

I read the book and I am not going to explain the whole thing page by page because your refuse to investigate it yourslef.

If the world held your thoughts, I get the feeling there would be a ton of books burned. I Personaly believe all books have a value, and all people have the right to read them and learn. When you write your book i'll be the first in line to read it.

You either want to learn more and view all perspectives before making and educated assumption or you don't. I really don't care. If you choose to judge things without getting all the facts or not, I don't care, it's your life, your world.

All I did was pose a suggested reading to a topic, and your mean and hateful remarks followed.  

 God bless you, and good luck in all your endevours. 

TRUTHHURTS

Lets start calling lily, liberal lily and her buddy sunflower can tag along.  He suggests a book and lily blows up, typical liberal, full of useless information with the main intent to blast any conservative in office.  Mind you we haven't been attacked in almost seven years and we were atacked twice with coward clinton.  He was probably to busy with monica though.

Lily - right now everyone, depending on their income and household situations has anywhere from 25%-38 % taken out of their paychecks for income tax + the 7% florida sales tax.The 23% fair tax would be a reduction. The fair tax is a federal revenue tax reform bill and has nothing to do with independant state revenue laws. Federal and state revenue laws are 2 seperate issues.

Thankfully Florida has no state income tax as some other states do then it would be worse. Remember - states operate independantly from the federal government. They either have a sales tax or income tax - some have both. FLorida does not.

Also regarding the Pre-bate for the poor, it is no worse or better than the working poor getting $3-5000- again depending on household and income - for the "earned income credit" in addition to a 100% rebate of everything taken out in income taxes. The Fair tax basically wipes out the working poor's tax liability. Isnt this good for the 'poor' people? I think it gives people incentive to  work harder because they know they'll be getting more or rather all of their paycheck and not having to worry about moving into the next tax bracket and try and mask or hide their income. More money in the working poors pocket means less money out of 'my' pocket to subsidize their housing or food bills

Corporate America and small business alike already have mechanisms in place that will allow them to seemlessly transfer the money they collect to the federal govenment. In the same way business does the same now for the state sales tax that is collected here in FLorida and across the country.There is no additional costs.

The fair tax act HR-25 if you would only read it - provides for the implementation of the the switch and the prices would remain the same. Business's merely pay the money after the fact instead of before the fact and the transition is seemless.

You said, "from what you've read' - well what did you read? You've already admitted you havent read the fair tax-so what you are reading are comments from other critics who also have not read - or do not have a good understanding of how this works.

What does the post office have to do with any of this?If you are refering to the pre-bates, that is not how that will work... but again- read the bill or the book or go to the web site-'fairtax.org'

Foxx

Thank God a friendly face, you see what your up against ???

You stay strong and keep up the good fight.

Read every book you can put your hands on and feed your mind, it will be your best weapon.

TRUTHHURTS

Reality;

Actually the tax brackets are between 10% and 35% for 2007 and 2008. Let's check my fuzzy math here.

I'm married filing jointly; I earn $100K; my federal tax is $25K.

Of the $75K left after taxes I have also paid about $7,650 for SS etc.

That leaves me $67,350 as disposable income. Just to pick a number (which might be pretty close) let's say that after living expenses for rent, food, phone, savings etc that I have $30K left to buy 'stuff'.

If I spend all of it and pay the 23% tax that is included in the price as 'mark up' I will end up having paid $6,600 in some nebulous 'taxes' plus the $25K of current income tax for a total of $31,600.

Now with the new system all I have to pay is 23% on everything I buy. If I'm smart I don't buy any more 'stuff' than I used to so I will only pay the $6,600. But let's say that now that I can afford it I'm going spend $50K so I'll pay $11,500.

Can you explain to me how this $11,500 is going to replace $25K that I would have paid plus the $6,600 mark up taxes that I paid?

It seems to me that either my calculator or my BS meter is broken.

Mike Heemer

Mike, I dont admit to being an expert on the subject by an stretch of the imagination on the current tax implications or the fair tax but merely my understanding thus far. The tax bracket I was referring to includes FICA and SS taxes ect. The fair tax is not a mark up- It is in place of . The 25- 38% I was referring to includes all taxes currently taken out of the average persons paycheck (excluding county/local taxes). I could be off base on that percentage but I think in simple terms the more you make the more you pay  percentage-wise. If I understood you correctly the question is that since you may be paying less tax overall based on your purchases how can this fair tax replace the current tax system with out impacting current governement programs and expenditures??? Well because #1 -EVERYONE will be contributing that's makes a purchase in the US and it's territories. That includes drug dealers who have no reportable income- they still make retail purchases-sometimes more than the rest of us average joes, prostitutes, illegal aliens, visitors/tourists, people who take jobs under the table, welfare recepients, ect ect ect- Obviously the wealthiest among us will pay more than the rest when they buy their $1mil yauhts-or $500K automobiles- $5mil dollar diamonds ect ect- Again I dont  claim to be an expert and havent memorized the research- but it is explained and has been exhaustively researched to the degree that the conclusion was it would in fact be revenue neutral with positive impact on the economy, business and individuals especially the working poor. Even if you dont want to read the actual Bill itself- you can go to FAIRTAX.org and it will point you to the research behind this bill. This wasn't recently created this has been in the works for many many years. I found out about it myself approx 5 years ago and it had actually been in existance for years before I knew about it. It has only recently gotten the attention is has primarily due to Huckabee but it is gaining momentum.

Thank you all for the uproarious laughter you have given me. Me, a liberal? Anyone who would suggest that even in jest has not been reading these blogs with even the least amount of verbal comprehension. Nor for very long. I also had to laugh out loud at Truth's little diatribe about not reading my response but that I should read the simpleminded text of a dullard talk show host and a morally ambiguous congressleech. I have heard Mr. Boortz in the past. He is not a very bright nor a very nice human being. I will not contribute to his retirement fund with my hard earned money.

As to attributing burning books to me, once again you are doing your best Joseph Pujol impression. I would be I have read many more books in my life than you ever will. I also have my own library.

I do not attack conservatives. I am one and have been all my life. When I stated that conservatives are sitting out the current election I defy you to show me a conservative who even entered the race. None! McCain, I am sure is the most deserving of the three to run but he is no conservative. So once again Truth, you have a very good civil action suit to take against whatever school system graduated you with out insisting you have reading comprehension skills. And get over yourself. I never attacked you but I am reconsidering that option. You are a very close minded individual to taken with yourself. Narcissus would be proud.

All in all, this whole Fair Tax scam is simply that. Government will not shrink, Korporate Amerika will not lower prices and 23% federal tax will not cover 35% tax rates. These people are at best, suffering the effects of their ill advised experimentations with hallucinogenic drugs in their youth. As a Libertarian, I know Boortz wants illegal drug used legalized. I have heard him say that.

Show me how adding another layer of bureaucracy is going to shrink government. Hiring new people to track the poor and issue them pre-bates is not shrinking the government and adding state taxes to federal taxes still means a 30% sales tax on all purchases. Show me the contract between the government and Big Business guaranteeing the reduction of the selling price by 23% to make this scheme revenue neutral. Show me the ironclad agreement that 23 % will not be just a starting point. I don't believe you can. I don't have to waste money on a foolish book when common sense speaks so much louder.

Taxes are way too high. Government intervention and the Nanny State is out of control. It always has been and probably always will. A flat ten percent tax on everyone would help shrink the government but government employees are like ticks on the economy. Once they have begun sucking the lifeblood from those who work in this country they never will relinquish their hold. That's just Human Nature. So, unfortunately, I don't think we will ever see that, either. Too many leeches are dependent on government paychecks.

P.S. Truth, since you seem to be a fan of Dennis Miller's, tune in his radio show. I have several times and enjoy it very much.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

I should pipe in here but Im not in the mood for all the flack today.  Our current tax system is less than favorable.  Fair Tax sounds good, but would be very difficult to implament.  A Flat Tax appears to be the fairest reform.  Just because you work hard and make more dosen't mean you should be taxed more.  Everyone should be taxed the same rate. 

Hopefully, Hillary and Obama keep duking it out.  Conservatives = Very Happy!

Make it a Great Day!

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

TruthHurts and Foxx - you silly people!  While I admitted with pride to being of a liberal persuasion, it is obvious to me that Lily is NOT!!  Apparently, reading comprehension is not your forte or you would realize just from perusing the comments of Lilyslore on this blog for the past year or so that she is a Libertarian! (FYI – they are not the same even if they do being with the same letters).

Ex - I assure you that we have values and and that we agree with many of your statements regarding our education system and other matters. Your opinion that 80 - 90% of liberals are living on government checks is simply ludicrous.  What about military retirement - is that not a government check?  And are ex-military considered "liberal"?  I think not - even though the definition of liberal as shown below, does apply to many members of the armed forces, imho.

I have wondered for a long time now, why the word liberal is used with such hatred and disdain not only by people like you, but media voices who seem to speak for you – Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, O'Riley, and others who spew their venom towards people who don’t agree with them. 

And, while I am logged in and before I leave this blog, here are some definitions of the word “liberal”. 

Liberal – web definitions:
1. having political or social views favoring reform and progress
2. tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition
3. a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

Webster’s Dictionary
a.  Open minded, tolerant
b. Favoring civil and political liberties, reform, and protection from arbitrary authority 

I see nothing in those definitions to warrant such hatred and anger. 

Kumbyah.
JudyB

BTW - Boortz will be at Books a Million Saturday at 10am signing his book.

Liberal = Socialism = Big Government

Conservative = Capitalism = Small Government

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

WOW !! Look at the path this topic took. I love all blogers even the idiots. ( just kidding ) I think the fair tax could be the best thing for this country in over a hundred years  As I said the Libs let some one do their thinking

  I guarantee you all the critics of talk radio never listen. Some one told them it was bad like the mainstream news

Thumbs up from me too buddy

Ex, just to twist this thread another 90 degrees, what is your definition of talk radio? Is it all inclusive or just Neil and Rush? I agree that most people that denigrate it probably not only don't listen but the few who do and still do so, do not hear exactly what is said. More misinterpretation than anything else.

As I mentioned before, I loved listening to Rush for about 9 years and have both his books.  I was forced to listen to Boortz when I worked in a research facility. One of the labs I had to work in from time to time had it on all morning. That was how I came to the conclusion he is not a very bright or honest individual. Occasionally I will listen to NPR until I notice myself nodding off. They really are not very invigorating speakers but one must listen from time to time to know what the opposing side believes this week. However, I would rank Dennis Miller as the best talk show guy today. He is terrific. I listen when I can.

Also, once a week I try to get through a half hour of local whack job Andy Johnson. Yesterday I actually got through 40 minutes. To give you another idea how lame this guy is, he spent a lot of the time denigrating Clay County for not signing on with other counties in drafting a resolution against the St Johns Water Mangement Distict's plan to send water from the river over to Central Florida. He followed that up with an on air statement that no Clay County citizens would be allowed to call his show until this was done. I doubt there are very many Clay County residents who listen anyway. I only do it because I have latent masochistic tendencies. :>)  Apparently he was unaware that Clay County had already drafted this resolution weeks ago. Therein lies the danger of believing everything a dunderhead with a microphone utters.

SMunsey, thanks for the heads up. Books A Million will be on my next trip to the mall after he's gone.

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Well, ex - your guarantee is not valid.  Of course we listen to talk radio - how else would we know how ignorant and self-centered they are?  I certainly don't trust  opinions of the main stream media be they liberal or conservative leaning - they are just opinions and we all have those, don't we?  We have to read and listen to all outlets in order to have an INFORMED opinon based on knowledge we glean from ALL sources.  I am unsure as to how some of these people are in the position they are in - blowhards, most. 

I am not an idiot and am very capable of assessing what I read and hear, in a logical and informed manner.  I also don't think fans of those people are idiots - just uninformed and a little on the sheeple side of the fence.

I listen to the radio most of the day.  I get my news from a mix of the computer, TV & listening to NPR.  I do occasionally tune into Rush & Boortz.  Never heard Andy Johnson or Dennis Miller on the radio.

I was ticked off a few years back when WJCT switched from classical to talk but decided I'd give it a try.  I'm so glad I did.  I've never been much of a talk radio listener but I have found a difference.

The big difference is that whoever is on NPR, host or guest, is not shouting, pontificating or bashing anyone.  I have also noticed that they have a wide mix of guests.  I know that for a fact because I listen to myself disagreeing at times.

Unlike the other two mentioned, they have news, local, national & international.  What it really comes downt is that if I wanted a one sided, fact lacking, shoutfest of pontificating or bashing, I have two other choices.  I could listen to myself rant on or read some the blogs.  But as I have gotten older, I appreciate news, politics,& the rest in a mature, PROFESSIONAL manner.  If nothing else, I get to learn more that way.  JATFUR.

RichK