Sheriff Rick Beesler leads the State!

Thanks for the information. This is not allowed by the Federal Government and should not be allowed by the State either. This needs to be changed becaused it evident by the list of people in our county who make the choice to abuse the system. Have no intent to regulate themselves but take advantage of the taxpayers.

Time to clean out the waste, abuse, and fraud in our government. Everyone should contact their elected State Officials and tell them this needs to be changed.

Please forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I am not sure that this bothers me. Maybe I don't understand it fully. I am thinking if someone earned a pension for lets say working 20 years and collects those earned funds then goes into public service which pays a salary why not collect the salary for doing the job, and the pension earned.

Please point me in the right direction and help me understand better  

TRUTHHURT

I am with Truthhurts, whats the big deal? The money is coming out of the retirement program not the state budget. The money was set aside by their employer during the period leading up to retirement.  The money in the Florida Retirement Program can not be tapped by the state to supplement its budget. I am sure if you could do it you would be right in line with the rest.

Angela,

You say that the Federal government does not allow double dipping, then how did my dad retire from the military after 30 years draw his pension and then work a civil service job and collect a paycheck bi-weekly? I know for a fact this happen.

Exactly, good example magnum many reitired military fall in that situation and I feel good for them they earned it. I am not bothered in the least by it.

TRUTHHURTS

Like Magnum, my dad retired from the service after 23 years, then worked in goverment police position for 17; retiring from government with 40 years collective service.  Is that double dipping?  Just curious your viewpoint on that.

MeMaw

From Webster's:

 Work\ activity in which one exerts strength or faculties to do or perform something. 

Politician\ a person primarily interested in political offices from selfish or other narrow usu. short-run interests

The Sheriff handles dimes like they are man hole covers? I think he has a few of the tax payers times in his pocket from the first retirement. Maybe he could give back some of his salary in the up come budgett crunch, the county is only gone to need a few man hole covers....

I believe the Sheriff fits the second definition.

Sleuth I usually agree with you but not this time. Why shouldn't someone who has earned the retirement get the benefit regardless of the circumstances. I have put up with more crap than most can imagine and if I survive this administration and make it to retirement, shouldn't I be able to take 30 years of experience and help some other agency?This is probably the only thing I agree with the Rickster on.  What bothers me is the fact he briought the magnificient seven with him which he promised not to during his campaign.

This is a loop hole in the law. Hopefully now that this has been exposed to the general public some one will close up that hole quickly.

Didn't our prior county manager do this too.

This has to be a gift from Jeb Bush. The kind of gifts that keeps on giving.

He's the proud recipient under his leadership of the Dept of Corruption formerly known as the Dept of Corrections. He oversaw the defunct Dept of Children and Families which almost got the Secretary thrown in jail for contempt while they violated Fl Laws.

Magnum I don't know how old you father is but he must of had a different plan than any I know about in my lifetime.

As MeMaw stated he father drew for 40 years collective service. Rightfully so he did 40 years. 

Isn't it correct that the taxpayers fully fund retirement for all law enforcement officers. Funny how that works I have to pay into mine.  

This was discussed as part of the SBA snafu recently where they lost a bunch of money due to bad investments for local governments. While attempting to protect the retirements.

Another gift of Governor Bush where he sat on the board of the Lehman Bros who made those bad investments in the mortgage crisis.

My understand for as long as I have known that when you retire from the military you forego your retirement for a civil service job. When you truly retire then you collect on the collective years accumulated.

At least with the Sheriff he retired and then was elected. The others with him who are drawing a check are not really retired they still work for the State of Florida so why do they get a retirement too.

Loophole indeed that needs to be fixed.

Senator Mike Fasano said it pretty simply, ""This is absolutely not what the Legislature intended. "It's so sad when you have elected officials who want to take advantage of this."

Fasano said the law should be changed so public officials get either a salary or a pension, but not both. "They are taking advantages of some glitches in the law, and they know they are."

What's the big deal you ask?  The big deal is that these "fat cats" have already collected their retirement, they have collected their DROP (Deferred Retirement Option Program) and now they are collecting salaries that were intended to be available for those members within the department when vacancies were created by senior members moving on.  The DROP was created to ensure people move on...Ask your local Senator or State Representative.

The irony here is that Mr. Beesler portrays himself as being so tight with the dollar....Well, obviously not if it helps himself or his friends.  I was told last night Sheriff Glover from Duval County gave his retirement checks to charity while working as a Sheriff.  Public service, or serving yourself...........Hmm.....

By the way gentlemen, I welcome many retired military that come into law enforcement.  They usually make very good policemen.  But, they don't come in at commander ranks.  They start at the bottom.  There is a big difference.  We changed one good ole boy system for another.  Something else Rick said he would get rid of! 

It's their money (Beesler, Glover, and others), and if the law allows it they should have it. They earned it by paying into the retirement system and putting in the time on the job.

It's very nice of Mr. Glover to give his retirement money to charity, but that is a personal choice, the fact remains he still collects it.

Like I stated before this issue don't bother me. I think if I was eligible for a retirement check and collect a salary working another job I would take whats coming to me.

TRUTHHURTS

My first husband retired from the Military after 20yrs and then went into Civil Service.  I know several people who have done this, and/or are doing this.  Would it not be some form of discrimination to not give someone a job because they have a retirement pension from the Goverment?  

The State spends the money either way, you can't deny a persons pension when they've earned it and they would pay someone for that other job so why does it matter?

Are you saying that a person who earns a pension has no right to any goverment job, or that they shouldn't get paid for the job.

Congress gives themselves all sorts of raises and perks, when they close that loophole that gives people the power to raise their own income or benefits then I will care about the rest of them. 

I don't know how one would "police" someone from hiring their friends, if they're qualified for the position they hold then does that not just fall under a perk of the job being able to hire who you want to?

The Legislative "intent" for taxes is that they be fair and that is obviously not only not happening but was just made worse by Amendment 1. 

I think the disparity in the State Tax System is far worse then the "double dippers"  When you have someone paying more in taxes for a property with a market value of 150K then someone with a million dollar property on the water there is something very wrong. 

I can't tell you how many times I heard this load of whatever you want to call it from employers in a real Navy town. Well you're retired Navy so you don't need as much income. That's like telling a woman she doesn't need as much income because she has or should have a husband bringing in the real paycheck.

Having a retirement check coming in from another job has nothing to do with how much you are worth on this job. You paid your dues on the other job and are reaping the rewards of your service.

This is the law. This legislator may not like it but that's his problem. He might want to take a look at what his retirement plan and the federal legislators plan is before he starts throwing rocks. I'm pretty sure that it is pretty lucrative.

The thing that really irritates me about these types of comments from those not collecting a retirement check and still working another job is that this opportunity was open to them too. If it is such a good deal why didn't you take advantage of it?

The biggest reason is that you didn't want to pay your dues. For the Military side you had to put up with being shot at. On the Police side you had to put up with being shot at. You weren't willing to pay that price so you went where it was a lot safer. That was your choice. Don't begrudge the benefits of that sacrifice to someone who did pay that price.

The fact is that this blog was started by someone that wants his/her boss out of office. One good way to do that is to imply that they are either outright breaking the law or are taking advantage of a 'loophole'. This is not a loophole. It is the law and has been for quite some time.

The comment from Sleuth about retired military is very telling. They 'start at the bottom'. Is that because they are already drawing a retirement check? Be that as it may, are they not doing the same thing as the Sheriff? They are collecting a retirement check and still working. If they last long enough they can collect another one.

One last question before I get off my soapbox and end this partial rant: Sleuth, what is it that you are going to do when you retire from CCSO? I'm assuming that is where your work. If I'm wrong, mea culpa.

Will you just sit back and play golf or fish, or are you going to find another job? If one is available with the state would you turn it down because you didn't want to double dip? If your answer is anything except I'd take the job I'd be a little suspect about the truthfulness of your answer. If you got elected to an office would you give your paycheck to charity?

My last point is that if life is so bad where you work, seek employment opportunities elsewhere. But then again, maybe you'd have to start at the bottom again. I mean you can't have outsiders coming in and being put in higher ranking positions. 

Mike Heemer

But I would like to add a few comments specific to the military/double dip.  How about the 6 months (minimum) time away from family, the "lovely" on board accommodations? Coffin sized racks (translation for civilians-beds) or the extra benefit of a hot rack (bed that you share--not at the same time, hence the term "hot" Someone in it every shift) 

Something to stay focused on in the so-called "double dipping" discussion.

1.  A retirement pension is earned, you should receive it not matter what the circumstances (well, unless in prison but that is another subject).  When you choose to receive it as long as it is under the policies of the organization is your choice  i.e. 20 years in military, 22 years, etc... AND no matter what you do after you 'retire' should not matter.

2.  Here is the HOWEVER - if you retire from an organization, and go immediately back into the same position (teacher, law enforcement, etc...) in the same organization - that may not be illegel but it could be construed as unethical.  That is why if you are a military retiree, in most cases, you cannot accept civil service employment for 6 months.  That prevents the active duty person from creating their own civil service position and sliding right into it upon retirement from active duty.

With that said, and in the CCC bottom line lingo - if somebody is retiring on paper only to obtain more $$$ AND staying in the exact same position - that is wrong and should not be allowed. 

P.S. I am not a human resources type so blast away at the facts above, they are close but probably have some holes.  If so, well - fire me.

According to some, When my wife retires after 30 years with the state and drawing a retirement check that she can not use that experience to get another job at a senior level with in a state government or local agency.  Say what?

Seems to me that their is another agenda being formulated here.

Clayvoter: Been there done that. Thanks for serving with me.

Those who give up freedom for security have neither

CCC;

I agree with most of what you said and would not pull an HR on you for your understanding of the rules.

I might take a little different route with the unethical, depending on how the job was obtained but no real issues.

My issue with Sleuth is that; in my opinion this does not fall under that situation. The Sheriff was elected to his position. I see nothing wrong with what he is doing. He brought in some friends which apparently PO'd some (a lot) of people.

I dislike his bent on the presentation of the issue. My feeling is that this is nothing more than a political announcement for Mike Taylor. Kind of like the one from adiossheriff about another candidate. What I don't see is any statement from Mike that he approves this message.

What neither the database nor Sleuth says is where these people retired from. To me, that is a vital piece of information that is left out. You really need to know this prior to making any speculation as to whether it is unethical. In speaking of this situation only, I don't see any issues except some toes that may have gotten stepped on.

I guess my BS meter just pegged when I read the blog. It just sounds like a lot of whining to me.

Mike Heemer

Mike, you make an excellent point. Where did these individuals retire from and what do the rules/laws actually say?  Statutes/Laws are "interpeted" all the time.  Normally they have to go through the court system to see which interpretation prevails.

The Sheriffs race, just like the CCAC fiasco is another point of learning with regards to the blogs and I believe that is what Mike is trying to do.  Get to the real beef of the matter before we automatically assume the incumbent Sheriff is so bad.  I said this once before on another tyraid against him.  If he is sooooo bad why are we just now hearing about it?  I think the blogs perhaps are being used as a campaign tool so I am going to reserve judgement until I think the entire picture is being presented.

Where's the beef, what is the true intent of the blog and where is the complete set of merits on the issue?

Clara Peller

1. Also from the newspaper article:

"Sponsors said they were trying to help a few lawmakers who had been on school district payrolls before they won election to the Legislature." 

So, it's OK to help out a few legislators, but when other elected officials do the same thing it suddenly becomes unethical?

2. The quote from Sen. Fasano concerns elected officials.  The names listed in the original blog are not elected, with the exception of Sheriff Beseler, so why are they even part of the discussion about ethics?

3. This practice hasn't been restricted to the Sheriff's Office in local government.

4. Drawing simultaneous retirement and salary for the same job, as was the case with a former county manager, is ridiculous.  It's the kind of thing that happens when lawmakers try to "help out" a few of their own.

5. Clay County is full of multiple-dippers.  I have a neighbor who will shortly be vested in his third pension plan, courtesy of his three careers drawing government paychecks.  When that third one starts in a couple of years, he's gonna retire again.  He's a good man, but should his multiple public pensions disqualify him from drawing a salary if he gets elected to office?

6. I sure hope no one who claims to be my supporter starts doing what Mike Taylor's are doing here.  Please, anyone who thinks they know enough about me to want to help, don't start blogging away and trying to make me appear morally superior by intimating my opponents' morals are lacking.  The differences aren't moral, they're political.

7. The anti-Beseler blogging sounds like a few insiders who saw their own internal CCSO influence drop when there was a change of administration.  More than electing Mike Taylor, it sounds like they are campaigning to get back what they lost.

8. I keep reading blogs about what a crappy job Beseler's been doing.  I wonder how much better the sheriff's performance could have been.  You know, if the folks he inherited were busy enforcing the law instead of playing department politics.

9. If I ever end up face-down in the parking lot, spread eagle with a gun to my head, I sure hope that cop shows better common sense than I've read from the badged bloggers.

10. I doubt Mike Taylor would ever ask for, even care about, my opinion on campaigning.  (And a look at the candidates' financical statements would certainly justify that indifference.)  But there are a whole lot of candidates in a boatload of Clay County races this year.  And there's only one campaign that feels dirty.  And it only feels dirty from one direction.

Michael S. Mann

This is news story called "State retiree loophole costs Florida $300M a year". This story was written by Lucy Morgan. They identified the double dippers in the story. All Sleuth did was link the story. The names were provided on the list of people obtained in the investigation of the reporter.

Our prior County Manager retired for 30 days came back to his position as a County Manager and was drawing 2 checks. Seems he was no more competent to do his job that time than when he left the first time. Well he was competent until the FBI showed up and he decided to leave. Good choice he would have been fired anyway.

In the article it states, "The loophole was created, as are so many in Tallahassee, on the last night of a legislative session, when few people notice what gets into bills flying through legislative hallways."

Of course we have never seen that done because it happens late at night when we are sleeping.

In the article it states, "In 2001, lawmakers quietly amended a retirement bill, allowing elected officials to receive retirement benefits as well as regular pay while remaining in the same job."

This was under our Bush family Governor.

It also states, "Most state employees getting a salary and a pension are enrolled in the state's Deferred Retirement Option Program, called DROP. It was created in 1998 to encourage retirement of highly paid, senior employees to make room for advances among younger, lower-paid employees."

The military offered similar buy out programs because of too many top level people and no new boots on the ground. The military budget was carry too many top level people and no incentives for new people to join the forces. 

Now it may be true Sleuth don't like Sheriff Beseler but they would have to stand in a long line of people who share that same feeling in the Sheriff's Office.

However unless they are the reporter who wrote this story and did the foot work for the records obtained to use in the story. All they did was provide information for the public. If it steps on people tops then so be it.

Thanks for the information provided. Someone needs to close this loophole because it is unethical, and if they didn't get to make their own laws it would be illegal.

I feel like Jay Leno here with his "exactly exactly"  To me the number one mistake in campaigning is the same mistake that is made in even making a point with some people.  Don't try to convince me how good you are by trying to tear someone else apart.  It's like what Finder Mike said a few weeks ago about trying to teach a pig to sing.  It doesn't work and irritates the pig.  Look at what is going on with Obama and Clinton, mud slinging and dirty politics.  Last week there was stuff in the news about McCain.  I did not vote for Huckabee in the primary but when he addressed that rumor saying that he believed John McCain was a good and decent man and if he said it wasn't true that was good enough for him he was taking the higher road. 

When I see mud being slung I tend to look with more attention to where it's coming from and not it's target. 

That first link also states that Charlie Crist is the one who said to publish the list and there are Judges making big money.  Maybe there will be some loopholes closed and some back room late night business that will come into the spotlight because all those tax cuts have to be made up for somewhere.  Charlie's looking for money. 

I don't think hiring "friends" is an automatic no no.  Especially in Law Enforcement, you need people you believe you can trust and depend upon so hiring a qualified friend to me is just using the perks of your authority in order to do the job to the best of your ability.  When you're talking a job that can risk your life on a daily basis I would want to surround myself with my friends as well providing they're competent. 

When I was the managing editor of The Tifton Gazette, I inherited a reporter named Murray Payne.  It didn't take long for me to appreciate Murray's skill, professionalism and drive, so when my city editor retired, I immediately promoted Murray to the spot.

Over the next three years of working closely together, my professional respect for him only grew and we also became good friends.  Eventually, the company transferred me to a bigger paper in Dalton and I tried my hardest to convince Murray to come with me.  It didn't have a thing to do with friendship and everything to do with the fact that Murrary - I knew - would do a good job.

Well, Murray had decided he liked the roots he'd established in Tifton and turned me down.  I'm absolutely positive that if he had accepted the position in Dalton, it would have created some inner-office politics and he'd be known as my "friend."  But frankly, I didn't care because I knew Murray would get his job done the way I wanted him to.

If a new sheriff hires people he knows will get the job done, I don't think it's fair to say it's shady politics simply because they've had a prior working relationship in other agencies.  I can respect the hiring of competent people, and don't think they should be disqualified from employment because they've proven their competence in other jobs.

Now, say a new a sheriff gets elected and all of a sudden promotions start coming to folks who've been blogging and campaigning hard for him ... well, that's a lot tougher to respect.

Michael S. Mann

Angela;

I almost always agree with what you have to say because you seem to put so much thought and research into it. I've got to deviate from that this time. I just don't see how living by the rules is unethical.

To me a loophole is something someone finds in a rule or law that was never covered and takes advantage of it. This is not a loophole. The rule/law states specifically that it is legal. Not only legal, but the rule was written specifically to cover this issue. You may not like the rule, you may think it is a dumb rule but it is the rule.

To me the unethical performance in this thing came from the blogger that initiated this. All he did was provide information? No, what he did was to provide innuendo. Sort of like the NYT story on McCain.

It served no other purpose than to give anyone that had any kind of beef with the Sheriff something to use to try to justify their dislike. You don't like the guy, fine. But don't adhere to an excuse like this to justify it.

You have more class than that.

Mike Heemer

Ok, you guys know I'm not much for digging back and getting actual facts, I usually just kind a wing it based on what I recall...which is getting harder.

Seems not too long ago a whole plethora (love that word) of bloggers launched an e-attack against Big John the Speaker for retiring from one job and then doing another or two (or three). 

Everybody is being so kind regarding the Sheriff and his retirement/job.  Maybe it is the fact the Sheriff is elected?  Not sure - and not saying I agree or disagree with either situation (Big John or the Sheriff). 

My feeling is still that if you have earned the pension, and you want to bail out and go to another job (not the same job) - great! 

Just pointing out the difference in reactions to Mr Speaker versus Mr Sheriff. Not advocating either or supporting either.

 I wouldn't know either of them if they stopped me on the street, (but I would prefer to be stopped by Mr Speaker since he can't write tickets.)

The intent of the Deferred Retirement Option Program, called DROP. It was created in 1998 to encourage retirement of highly paid, senior employees to make room for advances among younger, lower-paid employees." Somebody came up with good idea.

Then in some late night sleezy meeting they stick some provision in there that helps a few of their friends. How nice of those legislators. A law was born.

Really I thought I paid their salary to protect all the citizens interest not to help a few of their friends. However, the list of friends began to grow to the tune of 300M.

When asked about this, " Sen. Mike Fasano, R-Port Richey, at the time a House member handling the retirement bill, said he did not realize that a fellow member's last-minute amendment would help so many people collect so much money." Yes time to back peddle Mr. Fasano.

Well  I would suggest Sen. Fasano go back up there and fix this problem. Then they should boot his behind out of office.

They thought this would be covered under the exemption that protects that information. However, Governor Crist and his open government laws said if they are working then they are not retired so the information will be released. An article was born. 

Now I don't think Lucy Morgan really care about Beseler. He and his group just got caught up in the sweep. You know it's sort of like when they do a criminal sweep and sometimes individuals get caught in the bathroom tapping their feet.

I thought it was a great article by Lucy Morgan. She did some good investigative work and exposed several people working the system in their benefit. She exposed a loophole that needs to be closed.

Beseler and his group just got caught up in the sweep. That along with supporting documents which were placed on the MCS website complimets of Lucy Morgan and Sleuth. Does it step on his toes? Oh well life goes that way sometimes.

This is the reason we need term limits to get some of the people out of public service so some young and innovating people can come along. Instead we let them retire then hire them back and we have the same old people doing the same old things.

No wonder all the bright, young and innovating people move on to the private sector. Then we get stuck with those that if they had to work a real job in the private sector would be at Walmart. I think Lily can understand what I mean.

Angela;

Go back and read the first paragraph of the blog then go to the database to check my numbers.

Brevard County School Board has 12

Department of Legal Affairs has 11

Justice Adm States Attorney Div has 24

Legislator has 15

Office of State Courts has 21

Public Defender has 24

Seminole County School Board has 10

It does not look like he has much of a lead in the state. He only has 6 including himself. 

The issue is still the motivation behind this blog. The blog really has no interest in the right or wrong of the loophole as you and others have called it.

It has to do with trying to smear the Sheriff's name and actions to persuade people to vote for someone else. It is a political ploy to cloud the real issues by someone that wants to have the Sheriff replaced.

If he needs to be replaced fine! But do it with real issues not some trumped up pot of something that smells like road apples.

P. S.

I must not be stating my position clear enough. If it is the law/rule it is NOT a loophole. I don't care how many reporters call it that.

I'll agree that she did a lot of work in gathering her data but the fact is these people are not breaking the law or using a back door. In my opinion, anyone that did not take advantage of this opportunity would be a complete idiot.

Is it their fault that the legislature was stupid enough to pass this law?

Mike Heemer

Either way it stinks and needs to be fixed. I promise not to call it a loophole anymore.

I will use the senator's language, ""This is absolutely not what the Legislature intended," he said this week. "It's so sad when you have elected officials who want to take advantage of this."

"Fasano said the law should be changed so public officials get either a salary or a pension, but not both. "They are taking advantages of some glitches in the law, and they know they are."

I call people who work the system like this cadallic welfare moms. They just know how to work the system.

I see criminals do it all the time too. They learn to work the system.

This is a glitch that needs to be fixed.

Who said anything about Mike Taylor?  I wish people would start asking him tough questions and stop treating this thing like it is a two man race.  It is no secret I have expressed concerns over Rick Beseler's administration, but there are more of us in the race than Mike and Rick!

Sleuth;

Perhaps the light just came on. I was the one that mentioned Mike Taylor. Apparently I may have jumped to a wrong conclusion but this certainly sounded just like some of the other blogs that have supported him.

Does there are more of us in the race than Mike and Rick imply that you are in the race?

Obviously I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes and have been known to miss subtle nuances so a simple yes or no would probably be best in this case.

Perchance I had the correct motivation but the wrong candidate?

Mike Heemer

If the phrase "there are more of us in the race then Mike and Rick" is not a typo and you are a candidate for Sheriff I would LOVE to be able to chat with you here.  If a candidate of ANYTHING is willing to come to the blogs and talk to the people that's impressive.....but only if they do it with their own name.  A candidate who hides behind a fictional name is.....well scary to be honest.  You could always keep the name and just identify yourself. 

Angela;

I think we kind of segued into a different blog but that's OK.

In other words the Senator said; "We are all idiots. We had no idea that we were going to give them the right to do this. We only meant this for an elite few."

But now that they opened this can of worms he wants to make sure everyone knows (or at least thinks) these people doing this are low lives that are taking advantage of the legislature's stupidity.

To blame the people that are taking advantage of the rule is no more than typical political obfuscation. It's not our fault, it's their fault.

Should this rule have been passed at all? Perhaps not, I don't know enough to make a completely informed decision. But you know if they can't do any better than this they shouldn't be in a position to write laws.

Angela, we all 'work the system'. Do you itemize deductions? Do you use coupons? If there are two identical items on the shelf and one is marked $100 and the other $80 which one are you going to pick up?

I have a sister that has been 'working the system' for the past 25 years. She's dumber than a stump, and twice as fat but she knows the rules a lot better than the people that are running the system.

It drives me crazy sometimes because it's my tax dollars not at work. But, we (our legislators) set the rules. Sometimes I just have to ask myself, "Who is the dumb one here?"

Mike Heemer

I realize I am the new kid on the block here and I have rubbed some the wrong way in my past blogs, but I am working on my skills and presentations.

That being said, I must go out on a limb here and say I am receiving a certain flavor on my tongue from many postings. The taste I am getting  seems to be a lot of anti-government/establishment tones that are surfacing and continue to surface a lot. It could just be me for I am a simple person, and have been told that by others in so many words. I could be wrong, it’s just how I feel and what I am tasting.

I am all for holding government accountable and getting involved in shaping our world and community, but there comes a point where we can go to extremes, and once you step over that line you begin to sound like your ranting, and have other agenda’s. Take it from me, been there done that. But as I stated earlier I am learning and working on that.

To me this issue is very simple. A person that has worked and paid into a retirement system with his/her own money has the right to collect that retirement money, they paid for it, they bought it. Now if that person moves on to another job, hired or elected, and that person is doing that job, they have the right to collect that salary for doing that job. Why should that person work for nothing, and why shouldn’t that person collect on a retirement account they bought and paid for.

I am sorry if I sound stupid to anyone on this topic, it’s just how I feel about.

TRUTHHURTS

Whether Sleuth is a candidate for sheriff (Blogger Braveheart has also made statements in the past that indicate he, too, is a candidate.) remains to be seen. The fact remains, however that Slueth, Adiossheriff, Insider, etc. seem intent on bringing negativity to the blogs and personally attack Rick Beseler at every opportunity.

Indeed, these blogs do nothing more than shoot the messenger in the foot at best, and do nothing for the FOP Union endorsed candidate Mike Taylor. It certainly does not make the other candidate be held in high esteem when overzealous campaign supporters are in constant attack mode. Such blogs are signs of desperation, as I believe OneMann indicated.

It's bad when you feel you have to take a bath after reading the blogs.

Opinions are feelings, they're rarely right or wrong, they're "feelings" based upon what you know and what's important to you.  Don't let the fear that someone will think you stupid keep you from saying what you think or feel.  Just because someone might disagree doesn't mean those feelings are either wrong or stupid. 

There are a great many readers out there who probably don't get involved in the blogging for those very reasons.  We should encourage all participants if they're being civil.  There is someone out there who may not know exactly the same thing that you don't know so stepping up and giving your opinion when you may not have all the facts or even if you do....you could encourage others to participate because you're willing to say "I may not know it all but this is what I think". 

I think it's great that you've stepped beyond CCAC and are now participating in other topics.  In case you or no one else has noticed, you're the only one to do so I believe.

Good for you!

Marsha

Thank you Ms. Marsha, your kind words and encouragement will serve me well.

TRUTHHURTS

Mike that was my point. I think this abuse of the system by any of these people is a disgrace to the system we hope protects us one day.

I said the Senator backpedaled when he was confronted. I said he passed this to help a few of his friends in the late hour. Until his friends grew to the tune of 300M. Then he wants to call them wrong and taking advantage of a system. Well if it was wrong for some of them. It should be wrong for all of them. I said he should go back and fix the glitch and then they should boot him too. I think that should be considered a misuse of a public office to help a few of his friends.

I hardly think cutting out a coupon in the Sunday paper is working the system.

I think when people go and investigate these matters and expose these glitches then better for the little guy who trys to work a job and has to pay all of these taxes.

The only way I would consider myself to be the dumb one is if I joined the low lifes that abuse the system. However, I make the choice to stand above the low lifes.

I get a little tried of giving the government money in the form of taxes to find out this is what they do with money and then asked for more. I get tired of hearing of all the officers they will have to take off the street while they draw this kind of money that is paid for with taxes. I get tired of the victims of crimes while I hear about other excuses for why they can't do their job.

Hell if we want to be the dumb ones. Then maybe we should all go work for the government. Get all these wonderful perks. Then I think that's already been tried and I think they call it a socialist country.

Get these no loads out of here and off the payroll.

Wasn't it blogged that Beseler's motto: Loyalty is better than competence.

I don't think many people understand the government retirement.  Yes, it is good, yes the DROP is great.  So what is wrong with someone going back to work after they retire?  Especially if they are trained in a special area where expertise is needed.  The DROP and most other retirement programs are written deliberately with the language they contain.  An employee is helping the state and him/herself by enrolling in the DROP.  Number one, they give up a retirement check that they could be drawing.  The state keeps that money for 5 years and of course invests it.  The employee on the drop gets some of the interest, and so does the state.  The state in effect has a much larger interest bearing fund than an individual could ever command.  Recently the SBA made some bad investments, but the fund is solid.  An individual could never weather the economic storm that the SBA did and still survive. The idea behind government retirement plans is that you make up with benefits what you lacked in salary payment.  Teachers are paid 20/24ths of their earned salary.  The school board holds that money for up to ten months, and during the time they have it, they invest it.  The school board draws interest on that money.  Some of that interest that they make in turn goes back into salaries.  So, by forgoing you full pay, you get a raise.  The economics of state retirement plans is a number crunchers dream.  Many retired state employees go on to elected positions.  By the way, elected officials earn state retirement at a higher rate than most other employees.  I think the high risk people (fire/police) have the highest rate, elected officials next, and finally the rank and file employee has the lowest multiplier.  In certain instances, state agencies actually recruit retired employees because they have a vast amount of practical experience.  In case you think I am biased, the FDIC is actively recruiting retired employees who dealt with the last bank and savings and loan failures almost twenty years ago.  The current employees have no idea how to handle the number of bank failures that the FDIC expects in the next year or so.  Experience obviously does count for something

I think you have described the DROP in a way that others will better comprehend.  At least I do.  I have a friend who is in corrections; when that person reached 62 and could have retired & drawn Soc. Sec., the state offered the DROP.  The amount of monthly income is put into an account (as you described); he's still working, collecting his regular salary.  When he becomes 65 & 10 months, will retire; the money in the DROP then becomes his along with whatever interest it splits with the state for the investment.  So, when you look at it that way, the state earns some interest, the employee does, and everybody wins.  If a person is able to continue working, it's win-win for both the state and employee.

But, in my opinion, the actual article mentioned in the first blog is a whole other ball of wax.  And most definitely needs to be fixed as these are truly "double dippers".

Now, these are just my opinions, and I've never claimed to be "smart". 

The state agency no longer contributes to the DROP employees retirement, as they are already retired.  That was another move to save the state, county or city government money.  So you have an employee with expertise, for which you no longer pay state retirement.

PS:  I will only be 62 when I complete the DROP.  I need another 3+ years before Social Security, so why not go back to work for the government?  I will have put in 43 years of service at that time.

If anyone is still reading this - I agree with the sentiment of "So what?"  My father (and father in-law) both retired from the Navy - 30 years each - and went to work for civil service in basically the same line of work.  My father-in law went on to retire from civil service.  I have no problem with this at all.

Re candidate support/criticism blogs:  I'm torn about using the blogs for political purposes.  I'm all about learning something about a candidate, but honestly, am immediately turned off by those blogs that seem as if they were written by a campaign.  To me, it's fine if the blog or comments are from individuals, but when they seem like campaign literature, I quit reading about 2 sentences in, and then look with skepticism at anything the blogger submits later.

It's only natural that politicians would want to take advantage of this medium, but personally, I'm put off by it.  I guess, I prefer the blog site in its "pure" form of communication between regular folks and not a free bulletin board for candidates and campaigns.

PS - for what it's worth, I am a strong supporter of Sheriff Beesler, with nothing against the other candidates.  To me, and from what I've heard from friends in the Department, he is doing a good job, and should be given another term to see if he can continue to make it a better Department, and get a handle of the crime that is spreading through the county.

Bill.

Dear Bax,

For someone who is opposed to endorsements on MCS site, your PS line sure sounds like an endorsement for the crookster Ricky. But hey, to each his own.

For Ruth48,

I"ve known Mike Lawrence for years and he deserves every penny he gets.

I fully support the additional retirements. They are earned. Maybe those who are opposed are to lazy to put time and effort into a career, retire and start another.

I can't understand putting people down for simply working hard to make a better life for they're family.

To be honest I don't care which name you pick on that list. Everyone needs to contact someone in the State and tell them this glitch in the law needs to be fixed. Just link them the story on the blogs.

As Fasano stated,"Fasano said the law should be changed so public officials get either a salary or a pension, but not both."

As Ken Pruitt stated in the article too:

"Shown the newspaper's findings, Senate President Ken Pruitt was livid. He said those who have abused the retirement program may well have "killed the goose that laid the golden egg."

"With budget shortfalls facing lawmakers, this is a perfect time to look at reforming the system, he said. "I wonder how many good professionals never got the opportunity for these positions because the people who had been there pushed them aside. This is totally unfair."

Contact your representative and tell them it's time to stop the glitch in the system. It time to help the citizens in the State of Florida instead of a few of their friends with a list that continues to grow.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/index.cfm?Mode=Member%20Pages&Submenu=1&Tab=legislators&CFID=37126531&CFTOKEN=75442384

All these double dipping titles are making me think Ice Cream. 

With that user name you're adding insult to injury, now it's Cookies and Ice Cream.

I am always skeptical when I hear comments that start “to be honest”, or statements that state “everyone needs to”, I don’t know maybe it’s just me, but it always seems to turn me off.

I am looking back at all the comments on this thread and if I am not mistaken the majority of the comments made indicate this is not an issue to be alarmed about. So I really don’t understand why anyone “needs to” do anything. I am sorry I just don’t follow the logic.

That being said I am confused as to why , we are continuing to even discussed this because it appears to me we are only repeating what we stated previously. (myself included-see I am learning   ).

I think we all stated what our opinions were, and that should be good enough. We read, we investigate, we add new findings, we form our own opinions, and we move on.

I don’t think everyone “needs to” do anything about an issue they feel is moot.

This will be my last comment on this topic, for it is time for me to move on.

TRUTHHURTS

Maybe we should all read Ron Littlepage's article. The legislature is about to convene in March. The first order of business is to cut 542 million from the budget. Well if eveybody contacts them we can help. Because I know where they can find 300 million real easy. Lucy Morgan can give them the directions.

If not the biggest chunk of 350 million will be coming out of education. Way to go Fl we are already ranking high in those numbers too. It's just at the wrong end of the high scale. Such as a very high dropout rate.

I love Rubio's priority to reduce the "red tape" in growth management. Mr. Littlepage translates that as letting the developers continue to ruin Florida only at a faster clip. Should I be shocked!

Some of them up there may need to rethink their positions.

Is time to kill the goose that laid the golden egg and eat that goose. Honestly!

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/022808/opl_251775841.shtml

For those interested they have heard from the people in the State of Florida.

Hopefully this glitch which they now call a loophole will be addressed and fixed in the upcoming session.

"Bills curb double-dipping" - kudos to Lucy Morgan for her excellent work on this investigation and her reporting.

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/04/State/Bills_curb_double_dip.shtml