Christmas in Iraq and Bush is 2007 Gallop most admired man, imagine that!!

CCC,

Except for getting a bit of a cold, we're having a great season & hope the same holds for you. Except for the cold.

I don't know who contributes to these polls, but I would have to disagree with them, on both counts.  I've always maintained that if one looks hard enough, one could find something admirable about any person.  Unfortunately, the harder one has to look, the less worthy the person.

When it comes to running for just @ any political office, I'm not sure whether to admire them, pity them or question their intelligence.  It could go either way.  You know how I fell about Bush, so I won't go into that.  Hillary running for office...well, I just covered that.  Admiring Hillary for sticking with Slick Willy & his stupidity, only time will tell.

With the military & church situation in Iraq, Many accounts have said the the surge has been working as a military answer, not social.  Iraq was a rather secularly run country, even with Sadaam.  With the social situation since he was caught, there was really no where to go but up. 

Just heard on the radio that ex minister Bhutto has been killed.  That's another glass of gas on the fire in that part of the world.

Back to the "Most admired."  Personally, I could think of a heck of a lot of people I admire more than Bush or Hillary.  I think I would start with just @ any teacher.  Stress, being attacked, literally & figuratively, on a daily basis from all sides.  Yet they stay at it.  That's admirable.  The military, especially in the Mid East.  Single parents, traditional parents.  That's a job & a half every day.  I would also consider the average American taxpayer.  Not for what we've endured in the past seven & a half years, but for darn near any year.  Yet we keep at it.  Police, fire or any emergency response people, those are the ones to be admired.

The choices are many but I guess those in the spotlight get first dibs.

About the tag line.  Hey, go ahead, use it.  After all, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.  Have a great & safe season.  JATFUR.

RichK 

Solo

Agree entirely on your choices as most admired, seems I recall both of us at one time fit at least one of those categories in uniform. 

Regarding Bush, I also know nothing will make you or others the least bit admire the man - and you know what?  That is what is refreshing about him at times - he frankly doesn't care, he leads as a President not as a pollster.

I am a little confused about your comment, "With the social situation since he (Saddam) was caught, there was really no where to go but up." regarding Saddam. 

You seem to know your history, couldn't you say the same about any self-centered, persecuting, murderous, egotistical dictator?  That is, when they finally met their maker that there was nowhere to go but up in regards to their country?  Isn't that the point? If Iraq had been on the top, or even middle of the human rights scale - then there would have been no need to take care of business there.  Just like if Hitler had been a fair and honorable leader content within his own borders, we would not have had to lose thousands of young men in foreign shores protecting our safety and freedom.

Just seems like a coping rationalizing statement to say about Saddam and the country...  "no where to go but up..." 

Bottom line is that Iraq is a better place now than when the statue of Saddam was standing and torture chambers were in full swing.  Are there problems?, sure there are but the fact that Christians can go to Christmas mass - whether you believe in Christmas or not - is an improvement. 

The fact that they can worship anything other than Saddam is an improvement - AND it would not have come about if not for this country and its leader(s).  And it's leader is President Bush - and that is why the war in Iraq is no longer a liberal placard against conservatives. 

My tag line - It is working. 

CCC,

Let me preface my reply by saying that in no way am I condoning the way the way that that  egomaniacal, pus filled pimple on the butt of humanity ran his country.  Not in the least.

Part of it is the WWII story that even Mussolini kept the trains on time.  Big WOOF.  The country & its people were getting to where they were going on time while everythiing else was coming down around them.  Same thing with Iraq.

Uncle Sadam ran a rather secular country.  That's a good thing.  Women were allowed to get an education & one didn't have to yell, "Allah Ahcqbar," at every turn.  While that might be considered good, darn near everything else was an oppressive life on the every day scale.  But it did work. 

OK.  Fast forward to the capture of Sadam, the spider hole man.  The average Iraqi gets a very strange taste of democracy. Occupation by the infidel western devil & his superior military/technical forces.  Infrastructure is not in place, as is expected.  Stuff takes time.  Tribal affiliations & domination come into the fray because that's the way it has been done for the past few thousand years.  A little time goes by where we put the squeeze on, via the surge, & things get a bit better.  Christians get to go to church.  That's a good thing.  People should be allowed to practise their religion the way they want within the framework of the law.  But they still have limited electricity usage.  Their court system is barely getting off the ground.  Travel is severely limited.  How would you like to attemp travel to Tennessee or any other state under those conditions?  Rationing is a reality.  Jobs without a bribe is unknown.  Starting to get the driftt?

I'm not saying that the Iraqi people will never get the good life they deserve.  I'm saying that one shouldn't look at a few instances of basic day to day living, something that should be available to all, & put them into the perspective that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

You are correct in saying that if life there was OK, all of this would be unesessary. But as bad as conditions might have seemed to be, it was working.  The people, the country & the leader posed no threat to the US.  We were the ones who changed the conditions of the staus quo.  We have to live with the results.  Only time will tell.  But I'll tell you what.  I'll bet you the finest cup of coffee that within six months of our eventual (hopefully) departure from Iraq, a tribal system of governing will return. I think that all of the old antagonistic feelings will roll into place.  Such is life.

But on top of that, I hope that I am wrong.  I hope that those people will get over tribal differences & learn to get along & accept their differences as the rest of the world  is learning to do.  I hope they wake up, see that their country is no worse off by letting a group of people go to their place of worship.  I hope that they see that providing basic needs to their people should be paramount to advancement on the world stage.  Time will tell my friend.  But the way things stand right now, they don't have anywhere else to go but up, at least according to our standards.

Time will also come into its own @ the judgement on Bush taking us into Iraq. To give but one example, this country once interned hundreds of thousands of Americans solely on the basis of their skin color, the shape of their eyes & their ancestors who bore children who attacked us in 1941.  Now, in perspective & under the harsh glare of history, it is considered a national shame & disgrace.  I honestly don't think that the same history will be kind to Bush, his administration & his policies, foreign & domestic.  He not only provided the ammunition, he loaded the gun & pointed it at his own head.  But that is for time & history to determine.  JATFUR.

RichK