Governors ParkAnybody read the article on Governors Park today?
How does the developer of Governors Park know the first section of the Beltway will be complete in 2012? Sounds like the developers are privy to information not yet made known to the public. Last I heard, there was no money slated for this project and foreign investors were being courted (so the thing will be built before 2035).
What else is going to pop up in the path of the proposed Outer Beltway? Governors Park just lends credit to my belief that people with deep pockets (and stand to profit financially) are influencing the Outer Beltway project for sheer personal gain. I am not saying powerful influential people shouldn't be able to voice their desires and pursue profit. It just feels like these people may have more access to decision-makers and information than the general public.
We learned about the demolition of the Shands Bridge at an inconvenient time - after the "decision" had been made to go the most southerly route and not link to I-95... and destroy the only existing bridge to St. Johns in exchange for one that will likely cost $3-$6 per trip.
Do we really need another 6,000 houses? I'll believe in the promised "industry" when it arrives.
What else do we not know?
I am the first person who wants to see this thing built - this county needs more roads - but I don't like the way the Outer Beltway project has been handled so far.
Anybody know anything else on this project that hasn't been made public yet? Related: thegeyser's blog | login or register to post comments | printer friendly version | Tags: Outer Beltway
Submitted by Baxley on Mon, 12/24/2007 - 4:32pm.
Hi Guys, Geyser, the assumption that a portion would be complete by 2012 is likely conjecture based on part of the construction starting in 2009/2010 - information that has been widely published. Large landowners, developers, contractors, and various planners - private & public - are always more aware of the latest information about projects in the pipeline. It is their business to be aware. Their success as businesses (aka people who employ other people for the purpose of making money) depends on them being aware of what is going on in their industry, and working within the system to take full advantage of the profit opportunities that are created. No apology needed - at least not by me. Angela, thanks for giving the TAC credit far above what they really accomplished. The Outer Beltway is a regional transportation project of the FDOT. Any influence the TAC had in selecting the final route was purely of an advisory nature (Transportation ADVISORY Commission), and when the TAC was active (in-active for over a year), it makes sense that we would be asked to offer an opinion. For the record, TAC meetings were always noticed, in the Sunshine, and encouraged public participation. Which Chairman of the TAC - there have been several - is or was a developer of Saratoga Springs? The developer of SS is the Landmar Corporation. I don't recall anyone associated with Landmar being a Chairman of the TAC, but I could've missed it. Maybe before my term of the TAC. Thanks. Submitted by Angela on Wed, 12/26/2007 - 7:50pm.
The land owners/developer of Saratoga Springs is Jack Myers. The one who appeared asking for perks for land donated for the ROW for the Outer Beltway recently. Jack Myers has been apart of the TAC and the Chairman, and I think he didn't resign until around 2005. The Outer Beltway has been on his list since 2000 I think, which was almost 8 years ago. In meetings that was part of a series of forums sponsored by Jacksonville Community Council Inc back in 2000. They discussed Clay's growth being gnarled by traffic. They discussed the need to explore ways to improve regional cooperation between Duval, Clay, St. Johns, Nassau, Baker, Putnam and Flagler counties back in 2000. The Outer Beltway and money from the State. The Clerk's records show that Clay Port Inc just annexed almost 235 acres of land into Green Cove Springs at the end of November. geyser some developments Governor' Park, Saratoga Springs, Peter's Creek Business Park, Black Creek (Lampa) just to name a few. In Saturday's paper they had proposed changes to the Comprehensive Plan noticed about the Ravines and Reinhold. Guess we just have to wait and see what that's about. Submitted by Angela on Thu, 12/27/2007 - 9:39am.
geyser, here's some more building in the MCS paper today, http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/122707/nec_228853946.shtml I was watching CNBC and they were laughing at Florida. They were telling everyone to go anywhere but to Florida to buy a home. They said people in lower Florida were putting the keys on the doorsteps and driving off in masses. The Courthouse needs to hire new employees to handle the amount of paperwork due to people just leaving their homes. They said pretty soon you can buy a house in Florida for 1.99. They said the ironic thing about Florida, is they are still building. Submitted by OneMann on Sat, 12/29/2007 - 4:19pm.
Geyser, Bax (even though one of them) is right about the lack of conspiracy. Go to any public meeting and, absent a single issue that generates a crowd, and the people sitting in the audience is probably someone connected to a developer, builder or major contractor. They stay right on top of things that happen in government, and usually offer educates estimates of things like when a major highway will open. Public notice is given before every public meeting, not just School Board or County Commission. There are lower-level meetings, such Planning Commission, in which information is often made available to those in attendance before any of the County Commissioners or School Board members even get a sniff of it. Attending all the meetings, requires an awful time and effort. The acquisition of knowledge usually does. Developers et al devote the time and make the effort to attend the meetings and acquire the knowledge. They reap the reward of their effort and investment of time and use that knowledge for personal financial gain. As Bax pointed out, there's no need to apologize for that. It simply common sense, not a conspiracy. Most individual citizens, though, do not have the financical incentive to spend their time in various levels of government meetings. So they choose to not invoke their constitutional right to attend and learn all the developers learn. Consequently, most of those "backroom deals" people always talk about aren't made in backrooms at all. They're made in front of God and everybody, in open government meetings, and there's no one but builders there to see it happen. Not even a reporter. Michael S. Mann Submitted by Angela on Sat, 12/29/2007 - 7:12pm.
I would say these people who work on these developments and are at the meetings are paid to be there. Unlike the public who has to take off from their job to attend these meeting. Hey, it always helps when you get on a committee and recommend you profitable vision of the future too: (Special Transportation Committee Report of July 18, 2000) Jack Myers, Chairman, Transportation Advisory Commission, made presentation of proposed recommendations and a Resolution from the Transportation Advisory Commission (See Supplemental File), regarding project priorities and studies. Mr. Myers read Section 1 of the Resolution into the record: The Transportation Advisory Commission would like the Board of Clay County Commissioners to consider including the following projects to Clay County's List of Priority Projects: After lengthy discussion, which included comments from Wanda Forrest of the Planning Department, Commissioner Lancaster moved, to approve the revised minutes, as submitted today, of the Special Transportation Committee meeting, to include our County Regional Transportation Needs and Status Report of July 21, 2000, and the Resolution from the Transportation Advisory Commission, to use these as our recommendation to the MPO of transportation improvements for Clay County. Chairman Bush passed the gavel to Vice-Chairman Lassiter and seconded the motion. Vice-Chairman Lassiter returned the gavel to Chairman Bush. Motion failed 2-2, with Commissioners Lassiter and McGovern dissenting. After further discussion, Commissioner Lassiter moved, seconded by Commissioner McGovern, and carried 4-0, to include the recommended projects in the Transportation Committee Report of July 18, with the following changes in priority: State Projects
The Commissioners were not biting but he kept trying. Submitted by read44 on Mon, 12/31/2007 - 1:49pm.
Interesting information provided below if you haven’t seen it. Please don’t tell me that the Commissioners are approving another golf course for Clay County. If they are, I call that very poor planning. See the constructionjournal.com information that prompted the golf course comment. http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/122107/bus_227440421.shtml http://www.constructionjournal.com/project_view.aspx?tab=2&id=511585&t=Governor's+Park+-+Master+Plan http://www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinformationoffice/construc/district2pio/counties/clay.htm People are talking about ...Here are the recent blog postings with the most comments. |
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geyser's
This was a project of the TAC (transportation advisory committee). One of the land developers that stands to benefit greatly from the Outer Beltway is the Saratoga Springs DRI (development of regional impact). To explain a development of regional impact we should look to Fleming Island as a model of a development of regional impact.
The Governor's Creek DRI will benefit as well.
The Chairman of the TAC was one of the land developers (Saratoga Springs) who presently stands to benefit. Both were getting taxpayers perks for land they donated to the Outer Beltway for Right-of-ways.
In 2003, Commissioner Bush's comments at the BCC meeting, "Commissioner Bush pointed out that Mr. Thrasher takes his direction from the Board of County Commissioners through the County Manager. It was the CONSENSUS of the Board that Mr. Thrasher does not take direction from the Transportation Advisory Commission, but from the BCC."
You can connect the dots.
I would like to comment on the Industrial aspect with the homes that are being proposed in these developments such as Governor Creeks, Saratoga Springs development, and the Highlands DRI that was just recently approved for transmittal. In light of the recent industrial accident at the T2 labs in Jacksonville you can be assured this proposed industrial (fishing bait) for the Commissioners consideration is just low wage paying jobs that is the single problem with Clay County's lack of economic development presently. This will result in another Fleming Island and we know what that produced in the way of jobs.
In my opinion it is just status quo.