I Just Had To Share

Hmmmm.....

The Pope's stand during WWII, the Inquisition, the earth revolves around the sun was heresy, the crusades, untold pedophiles. Untold millions killed because 'my God is better than yours'.

Religious fanatics scare the crap out of me. Not religious people per se, for there are so many that do so much good.

It's just the small groups that are so far out of the mainstream that they can't see that they are doing more harm than good. I just don't think this is what Peter had in mind.

Did I say that Catholics are a fanatical fringe group? Absolutely not. But I do think that there are these types of groups among every religious doctrine. What they say must always be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism.

We must keep our hollow beliefs to ourselves yet the minority fringe outfits can scream their 'truth' to the world with impunity. For if you say anything against them then you are infringing upon their constitutional rights.

Finder

Havent seen the movie and do not plan to.  Mr. Donohue nailed it right on the head!  His statement is 100% True.  That is a fact and is undisputed.  We have the freedom of religion not from religion!!  We seem to forget that, Rich, I thought you weren't blogging here anymore??!!  Anyway, here is more on the movie and why any self respecting Christian/Catholic will NOT view/support this movie.

According to CNSNews.com, leading atheist writers and intellectuals are engaged in a "scientific" quest to ultimately destroy organized religion, particularly Christianity. Oxford professor Richard Dawkins, author Sam Harris and journalist Christopher Hitchens are some of the big names leading this "new atheism" initiative. Evidence of their agenda is seen in efforts such as the Out Campaign and the Blasphemy Challenge.

CNSNews.com defines the Out Campaign as "a movement started by Dawkins to encourage Americans to proudly display their atheism." ABC News describes the Blasphemy Challenge as a way "to challenge people to make videos of themselves denying, denouncing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and then post them on YouTube." ABC News also calls it "the cutting edge of a new and emboldened wave of atheism."

The Blasphemy Challenge targets teens while an upcoming movie that may have a similar agenda is likely to appeal to families, especially children.

The Golden Compass is a film from New Line Cinema based on the first book of a series, His Dark Materials, written by English atheist Philip Pullman. It is set to release December 7 in theaters nationwide. From watching the trailer, it's easy to see that the film has a C. S. Lewis/Narnia feel to it, but don't be deceived.

Pullman's book trilogy is the story of "a battle against the church and a fight to overthrow God," BBC News reported. The Guardian, a British newspaper, goes even further to describe the books as "metaphysical fantasies encompassing parallel worlds, the death of God and the fall of man ...."

"I don't know whether there's a God or not. Nobody does, no matter what they say," Pullman said in an interview posted on his website.

Therefore, without yet seeing the film, at least one pro-family group -- the American Family Association -- is alerting Christians to the potential dangers of The Golden Compass. Because of Pullman's clearly articulated anti-Christian motives, AFA is warning all viewers to run from the film.

The Golden Compass is set in an alternative world with a sinister Magisterium. It is about a girl named Lyra who sets out to rescue her friend Roger who has been kidnapped by an organization known as the Gobblers. Roger's rescue turns into an epic quest to save two different worlds -- one in which people's souls manifest themselves as animals. These manifestations are known as "daemons," and Pullman says they help a person grow toward wisdom.

In addition, the movie website allows visitors to answer a set of questions and create their own daemons that journey alongside them in life.

"One of the [book] series' main themes -- the rejection of organized religion and in particular the abuse of power within the Catholic Church -- is to be watered down," according to the Telegraph, a newspaper in the U.K. "But when the film is released in December the Magisterium will be shown as a critique of all dogmatic organizations, thereby avoiding a religious backlash."

Although the film has supposedly been stripped of the books' key denunciation of religion to prevent offending Catholic audiences, that doesn't appease the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. The Catholic League still views The Golden Compass as bait for Pullman's books, which the group says are representative of the author's two-fold agenda "to promote atheism and denigrate Christianity. To kids."

God Bless us all!  Even you Uncle R..... 

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Finder,

All too true.  One finds these types of people in almost every walk of life, not just religion or politics.  I sometimes wish that there were some kind of universal "fact check,  like spell check.  Or maybe a universal "B.S.," detector that would automatically weed out statements like his.  Oh well, I'll keep dreaming.

Smuncey,

If you would, please clarify which of Mr. Donohue's statements you think are true.  I'm not sure what statement you're talking about.  If it was the figures for the movie's gross for the weekend, you're right & those can be found on various sites.  If it's his reasoning for the low figures, well, I explained that it might be that or it might not.

If it was his statements in the last paragraph, & you are supporting his attitude & his particular verion of history, that's just plain scary & creeps me out.  But it does not surprise me, sorry to say.

As an aside, I noticed that The Golden Compass," the Catholic League the Freethought Society are featured in the TU Lifestyle section today.  It gives both sides of the issue.

RichK 

NO OTHER RELIGION HAS DONE MORE TO PROMOTE HUMAN RIGHTS, SCIENCE AND GOODWILL.

This statement is an absolute truth.  It is undisputed.  Over the last 2000 years, The Roman Catholic Church has done more than any other religion to promote human rights, Science and Goodwill.  Now has the Catholic Church made many mistakes over the centuries?  Yes, but that does not take away the mostly positive actions the church has taken over the last 2 thousand years. 

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

Smuncey,

Let me get this straight. 

Human rights.  It's bad enough that they treat women like second class citizens for no visible, logical reason, but they also allow millions of children to starve on this planet while they sit in their gold encrusted pricipality, filled with untold millions of dollars worth of art, archives, real estate holdings etc.  All this & they still had time to cover up child abuse for decades.  Yeah.  OK.

Promote science. Let's see.  For @ 1,500 years, they force fed their "SCIENTIFIC," company line, WHICH WAS NOT ONLY WRONG, but was made official for the sole purpose of supporting their own orthodoxy, upon a congregation that was, for the most part, illeterate.  They enforced their orthodoxy under threat of excommunication, telling the people, "You must believe this.  Don't worry, you have my infallible word on it," (Sorry Joe Isuzu)  Then, at the end of the 15th century, when a combination of people, events & inventions finally broke the authoritative strangle hold the church had on society, it only took them, how many centuries to finally admit that people like Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe & others were right, & not them?  Yeah, that's really good promotion of science.

Good will.  Let's see.  Yes, you must be right again. After all, all one has to do is look back on the last few years to read all of the news items coming from Vatican City preaching peace, tollerance, (actually, I'm surprised no one choked to death on that one) brotherhood & acceptance of other religions.  Fine, fine thoughts.  It's just too bad that they showed their true colors some time this past year coming out with a declaration proclaming their religion as the only true religion. Yeah, I bet they made a boat load of friends with that one.

Look, Smuncey, if your peculiar vision of history is all that takes to make you happy, I'm all for it.  You have a blast.  I just ask two things.  One:  don't try taking a whizz down my leg & then try to convince me that it's just a gentle, spring like shower.  Two:  Man, you got to be nice & share with the rest of us children on the blog & let us know just what the heck you are smoking.  I'm sure we'd all like to feel that good.  I certainly would.  But not at your price.  JATFUR.

RichK 

Solo;

Thanks. You have a way with words. Sometimes I think Smunsey throughs gas on the fire just to see how high the flames will go.

Surely in today's information society no one can be so naive and blind to historical facts that they actually believe that. The math of 2000 years doesn't work too well either. I don't think the church started right away. But that's OK.

Faith is one thing but ignorance and superstition are another. I just don't think God intended the Pope to be His designated hitter. Heck for a long time they couldn't figure out which Pope was really God on earth.

I will say one thing for them. They know how to build a world headquarters building. I had the opportunity to see Rome and the Vatican. You could feed half the world for a very long time with what that place is worth.

Anyway, on to the important stuff. What the heck does JATFUR stand for?

Finder

http://www.myspace.com/jimmaxie

Finder,

Keep on reading & like others, you will find that I do have a way with words, ideas & concepts.  Add to that a rather irreverant sense of humor in which I can usually find something funny in just about anything, a total dislike for having my intelligence insulted, & you'll get a chuckle or get infuriated.  It can go either way.

My minor diatribe was not against religion.  I don't really care what any person wants to believe.  What I do object to is hypocrisy & people attempting to assume god powers over others when they are neither qualified nor authorized to do so.  Bill Donohue is just one of many examples.  I get those newsletters on a fairly regular basis & it seems that this movie has been of particular interest to the Catholic League.  Next up, THE GODLESS WAR ON CHRISTMAS.  Tis the season when the BS factor goes into high gear.  What's really bothersome is the fact that there are so many people who refuse to rub two gray cells together & see it for what it is.

With respects to smuncey, I owe him an apology.  He was correct in one aspect.  there are very few groups that are all good or all bad.  The Catholic church has done some good things in its' history.  But I calls 'em like history writes 'em.  Hey!  sometimes gas on a fire can be a good thing.  It gets the brain grinding.  Besides, I doubt that there aren't any bloggers out there who couldn't use a good chuckle now & then.

Don't get me started on Catholicism, mindless dogma the threat of eternal damnation if you don't accept what they say & the like.  I lost any respect for them decades ago.  I haven't come across anything that would change my mind.

Got to see Rome once for 20 minutes, just to say I was there.  Could have used 20 years.  Thanks for the input.  Keep the cards & letters coming in.  JATFUR.*

richK

*Just Another Tip From Uncle rich.

http://www.myspace.com/jimmaxie

Jimmaxie,

Es no problema, baby.  Actually, I guess they could be interchanged without any problem.  Some say tomato.  Some say tomahto.  I say whatever blows up the shorts & makes one smile.  Great day for a ball game.  Let's play two!  JATFUR.

RichK  

C'mon, guys.  Munsey isn't throwing gas on fires, he's doing his imitation of light night television.  He's MCS's own version of Stephen Colbert.

In real life, Munsey is actually a fairly conservative Democrat who goes on stage as the laughable character who sees politics, religion and life as a series of yes-or-no, black-or-white, liberal-or-conservative, Democratic-or-Republican, you-or-me questions with predetermined answers.  Damn fine imitation, too.

Michael S. Mann

Can’t we all just get along?

I know it is a pipe dream, but if everyone would just accept that everyone has the right too make their own choices in life; and not have someone try and jam their own beliefs down one anthers throat. Acceptance is the key, if you would like to tell me about your own beliefs in life I will listen, but it is my choice as too whether or not I want to accept what you tell me. It is alright to try and convince me of your beliefs, but when I make the choice that I would rather adhere to my own opinion on the matter that should be the end of the other party trying to convince me other wise. Accept the choice that I have made, I’m neither right nor wrong, it is just what I choose to believe in. Rk and I have had many debates on religion. I don’t agree with what he believes, but I do respect his choice he has made on the topic of religion. If everyone could follow the rule of acceptance maybe this world could be more at peace.  But that will never happen; it just a pipe dream          

Winn,

Hey, we are getting along.  As a matter of fact, we're having a bit of fun along the way.  No sticks, stones, threats or name calling yet.  See?

Actually, the blog isn't about religion, as stated from the beginning.  You can substitute the subject matter to a # of topics.  It was @ hypocrisy, manipulation, the usual high BS factor & such.  Just happened that I came across this movie thing.  It seems that the papers have come across it also.

I think that most of us agree with you.  I certainly do.  For the most part, while we may disagree with opinions on any topic, we respect the right to have & state it.  Oh happy day!  If, as Finder & OneMann state, that Smuncey tends to want to throw a bit of gas on the fire, that's his right.  Stoking the flames can be good to warm things up, get the juices flowing & get a chuckle or 2 along the way.  I'm all for it.

Will we, as a society ever have a true peace?  Man, if I had the answer to that I would be a very rich man indeed.  You have my word on it.  JATFUR.

RichK

You just knew I would join in this one eventually. 

RK - your words of "propaganda and mind control" are fairly strong, in reality what they mean can be condensed to one word and is not limited to the religious - "marketing."  You concede that (not limited to religion) in your last entry, but then go on to use "hypocrisy" and "manipulation." 

Again, I always enjoy your postings and this time you tried to concede both sides use the same approach, but it just would not be typed on your keyboard. 

To point out one of the quotes from the movie director..."I don't know whether there's a God or not. Nobody does, no matter what they say," Pullman said in an interview posted on his website. 

Don't know if you want to categorize that into propaganda, mind control, manipulation... take your pick but it sure is not acceptance of other's ideas. 

Personally, I don't give a rat's petunia about a movie, it is only a movie and if your faith is not strong enough to sit through a 2 hour fantasy - then you have a larger problem.  However, if you faith draws you to protest the movie - you have that right.  If your lack of faith draws you to defend the movie - fine too.  And neither person should be accused of 'mind-control' or 'propaganda.'  Side note: Personally, I would not like seeing my buddies blown apart - but Saving Private Ryan has to be one of the best movies ever made. 

Somehow, when atheists/agnostics speak out it is called enlightenment but when evangalicals/Christians speak out it is radical and "mind control." 

Why is that?

CCC,

How are you?  Always glad to get your input.

Words.  Mind control, manipulation, propaganda, hypocrisy & marketing.  You're right.  They are strong words, although I might disagree a bit on marketing.  I think I made my point in the 4th paragraph.  I don't know if you've had the chance to read any of the articles that have now appeared in the general media, but Mr. Donohue told his group that the reason the movie didn't do as well as expected was because of the efforts of the Catholic League putting the word out on the street.  I admit that there is a missing element & I really should have included it for clarity.  As with other situations like this, leaders have told their respective groups not watch, listen or read something.  either that or they threaten to boycot.  That, my friend, is the start of the manipulation, the mind control.

With the possible exception of dealing with children, I can find no person out there who is remotely qualified or authorized to tell me what to read, etc.  I don't blame Mr. Donohue.  I put the blame squarely on those who blindly concede to his demands.  If one wants to relinquish that much control over themselves, their minds & self respect, they will have to pay the price.  What's the old saying?  Who is the bigger fool?  The fool, or the one who follows the fool?  But if you have that many people who decide to make a decision & pass judgement on a movie, book, whatever, solely on the word of some one else, that is power in the form of mind control & manipulation.  If the above conditions were met, he then successfully excersied mind control via manipulation & his followers thereby deprived themselves of the power of thinking for themselves & making up their own minds before passing judgement.  That is a real shame & a total waste of intellect.  

As far as the subject of hypocrisy, I dealt with that in my last two paragraphs.  I don't know what religion you practise, but I doubt that you would take kindly if I told you to keep your beliefs to yourself.  If I'm not mistaken, you do have a First Amendment right.  (Careful, there's a trap disguised in that statement)

On enlightenment.  OK.  You got me there, big guy.  I reread this blog & I can't find the word, enlightenment, anywhere.  If you could clue me in, I'd appreciate it. 

Enjoy this weather, man.  It can't last.  Always looking forward to your comments.

RichK

PS.  I looked up the above words you mentioned in the great book.  I used them appropriately & accurately.  I knew that you would keep me honest & on my toes, just like a midget at a urinal.  (Iheard that on TV & laughed my butt off)

RK

Call me old school if you will.  I dont want to see a NEW America.  I want the old America restored.  I want the America that was founded on Christian Principals.  I wanna see America be morally correct not politically correct.  The Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit.  Abortion is MURDER.  The war on terror is just and neccessary.  Goverment needs to be toned down not turned up.  Borders, Language and Culture are what makes this country great.  Im not against immigration, Im against illegal immigration.  America is a Christian Nation, let keep it that way.  Yes, I may look at things as black and white, but I think we have to.  When it comes to morality, there is no grey area.  Yes, sometimes, I do like to stir things up a bit but make no mistake, the biggest argument againt a Representative Republic is a five minute conversation with the average voter.  Un-educated americans are what killing this country.   We cannot (as Americans and Christians) to allow are children to watch and be influenced by crap movies like the Golden Compass.  It's issue like this that is destroying the morality of this country. 

Make it a great day and God bless us all!

Steven P Munsey A+, MCP, IASO Orange Park | Green Cove Springs munsey13@comcast.net

RK/Solo (you really should have gone with Hans Solo)

Regarding your use of words in the initial post - you are right, the word 'enlightenment' is not used.  I used it in my closing as a punch line, which you can agree with or not - but the bottom line is when Christians function as activists they are labeled as whackos, right-wing, propaganda spewers - you get the message.  When non-religious groups are active, they are full of "enlightenment" and "capable of thinking for themselves."  I dare theorize that if Jerry Fallwell had invented global warming, it would still be where it belongs - a humorous footnote.

Regarding you not using the word enlightenment - I too used the Aunt Merriam and looked up both "share" which is your blog title and "enlightenment."  Though not listed as synonyms, they have to be close cousins.  So, I have to stick with my use of the word. 

And as an added bonus - the word of the year according to Merriam-Webster is "w00t," as in what Bill will say when Hillary hires that new intern.

Always fun to share and enlighten you Uncle

Share = to tell (as thoughts, feelings, or experiences) to   

Enlighten = to furnish knowledge to : instruct <enlightened us about the problem> 

CCC,

I couldn't resist the subject title.  In this particular blog, I never used the word "whacko."  In fact, I consider that there are way too many whackos out there, religious & political.  I don't consider Mr. Donohue a 'Whacko,"  At least not yet.  He does have promise.  Especially compared to some out there.  I consider him a combination of a source of minor amusement & a bit of an intellectual annoyance, kind of like a mosquito or gnat.

Activists.  That covers a lot of territory.  I consider people, who happen to be Christian, activists when they are volunteering in lunch programs, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, helping children, doing community works & a myriad of other things.  I don't care if they are Christians or OTC's.  (other than Christian)  They produce a positive influence on the community around them & in so many ways, enrich all of us.

You want whackos?  Those are the people who tell others what to read, watch or hear. They are the people who tell their followers that the source of their problems are gays, lesbians, lie @ people who wage a war on Christmas, people who are connected with abortians, people who are secular, or any one who doesn't believe or think the way they do.  People who lie for their own ends.  People who manipulate information, make outrageous claims, obfuscate, & curry favors with the influential for their own self aggrandizement. Those are the whackos.  And yes.  Any person or group that exposes them for what they are, I consider them enlightened. 

If you have read, watched or listened to the news in recent years, you will probably remember people who fit the above descriptions.  How would you describe them?  In case you haven't caught on yet, I don't resitrict the above to religions.  The political scene is lousy with them also.

w00t.  I recall noticing this in a news article.  I still have a pain in my eye just thinking @ it.  Make it go away.

I'll agree with your analogy of close cousins. 

I hope I have enlightened you at least to a small degree.  JATFUR.

RichK 

CCC;

I can only speak for myself but I don't think that I ever said, nor do I believe that believing in God, a Supreme Being or Higher Power is wrong or that people who do are victims of mind control. As I've said before, faith is a good thing.

"I don't know whether there's a God or not. Nobody does, no matter what they say," I'm not sure I understand your objection to that statement. In my opinion, he is correct. We believe in something that can't be seen or proven scientifically exists. That is why it is called Faith.

I'm not wild about people saying that all who believe in God are wrong or in some delusional state of mind either. If they believe so be it and good for them. Just don't treat me like less of a person because I don't attend the same Church you do, don't attend at all or don't believe as you do. Extremism from either side is not a healthy thing.

I also don't like double standards. If a group of atheists/agnostics went to an OB/GYN clinic carrying signs that said all these pregnant women should abort their babies, there would be a war cry heard across the nation.

Yet members of some religious group can go to a Planned Parenthood office and call them murderers and they are held up as heroes for standing up for their religious beliefs by protecting the rights of what they perceive to be an unborn child. Of course as soon as the kid is born their job is done and they can sleep well at night believing they have saved a life.

If that child later turns to a life of crime because they are unloved, abused and hungry, then it's the parents' or society's fault. It can't possibly be their fault, they saved his life.

Religious fanatics (no matter their religion) just really scare the crap out of me. There a couple of religious groups in this world, that if they could get their hands on one, would set off a nuke in our back yard faster than we can say 'Oh crap'.

I just think that over the past 2000 years that there have been too many groups that have had the attitude that 'My God wants peace on earth and by God I'll kill you to get it'.

OK. Now I'll get off my soap box. I totally agree with you about 'Saving Private Ryan'. That's what I'm talking about when it comes to sacrifice for, and dedication to your fellow human being.

Finder

Finder,

Can't find anything in your statements to which I might disagree.  As much as I am against many organized religions, like most things, there are good  & bad things to be said for most of them.  I don't have any use  for it, but different strokes.  In my reply to CCC, I gave an example of the many good things we have to find in some religious people.  (Some not so religious also) 

On abortion.  And here, I have to toot my own horn.  You missed one thing.  To the best of my knowledge, no atheist or agnostic has ever bombed or killed a person connected with abortion.  That seems to be the sole domain of the whackos & the voices they claim talk to them.  Those are the people who give religion a bad name. 

Sorry I forgot to mention Private Ryan.  I read the previews & it still took me months to get the courage up just to see the infamous first 30 minutes.  Great flick.

RichK

Well; shut my mouth and let me sit here for second to gather my thoughts. Munsey I have to say that I agree with 98% of what you just expressed, 2% I don’t. The comment about this being a Christian nation, and it should stay that way. You are correct about this country being founded on the principles of God and moral belief’s. Most religions that I know hold principals and moral standards. Just because they are not Christian doses not make them wrong.

            What is wrong in this country today is that a few can manipulate the justice system that affects many. Case in point; in a town in California one man changed a long standing tradition because the chaplains of a fire department wore a patch with a cross on it. He was a self proclaimed atheist, so be it. That’s his choice, but too sue a fire department to remove a long standing tradition of chaplains in the department because he is offended is just plain wrong. It happens everyday, to ones belief’s and traditions.

That is what is changing this country, its not a matter of what religion you are, it is the few that make changes in the foundations of our morals. And our judges legislate the law from the bench, instead of our representatives reviewing the problem and making a decision on it based on its validity and the good of the majority, not the few. Live and let live. Let the people decide what they believe in not the judges. All religions need to accept one another’s beliefs and standards and quit trying to force others to believe as they do.

The core values of this great country are disintegrating before our eyes. People are so desensitized to others feelings and beliefs. When you can beat an 80 year old woman, and send pictures too you of your decapitated daughters body through email we have a serious problem in this country. It seems people are turning from bad too evil. Do I profess to have the answers; no. But everyone needs to prepare for a future of total chaos, and evil doings. What will this country become in the future, I really don’t know. But from my perspective I can see a world with out bounds and everyman for them selves.

I truly hope I’m wrong, but that’s only my opinion.              

Winn,

First of all, I respect the right of a person to express their opinion.  I know I explained it before.  Maybe you missed it.  Smuncey, along with many other people, have said that this is a nation founded on Christian principles.  They have also said that this is a Christian nation.  Once again, they are only partially right. Please read the history.

This is a nation founded by people mainly of the Christian faith.  That is a matter of historical fact.  But there are other factors that are not brought forth for the simple reason that the more extreme factions of evangelical Christians don't want to, or are afraid of, the public knowing.

The prime reason those good people came here was to escape religious persecution.  They wanted to lead their lives  & practise their own religion without being forced, as they were in Europe, to adhere to a state sponsored religion & having their taxes being spent to support a religion to which they did not adhere.  That is the very thing we have in this country now.  It is against the First Amendment, but because of a rule called, "Standing," nothing can be done @ it because it was initiated by executive order, not legislation.  Only another president, can rescind that order. Even I pray that we get back on the right track.

Christian principles.  I covered this in a previous reply, but it appears that it needs repeating.  Yes.  Yes.  This country was, indeed, founded on Christian principles.  But here's what you don't hear from the more extreme factions.  These principles are not the be all & end all of supremacy & are not at all exclusive to Christianity.  It's in the history of the human race.  All one has to do is read it.  What they don't want  people to know is that before they were Christian principles, they were Jewish principles, including the concept of a monotheistic being.  Before that, minus the monotheistic being & graven images parts, they were Egyptian.  Before that, they were the laws of  Mesopotamia.  Before that, they were Babylonian, Oriental & who knows what else.  The point is, before that, they were the common unwritten, rules of human society.  They were well understood & enforced.  There is no Christian supremacy or exclusivity in the rules by which we live.  They have been passed down & enforced  for thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of years. 

The founding fathers might not have known that we would have such a religiously diverse nation as we now have.  But they weren't stupid.  Before they put pen to paper, they did their homework & poured over the histories of many nations, come & gone.  They knew from the outset that any kind of theocracy was a certain kind of poison.  That's why they decided to set up a democratic republic that kept church & state separate.  It's the best thing going for both politics & religion.  It's not a lucky break that we have so many religions in this country that are free to worship the way they please, within the law, without government interference.

The things that people denounce as being anti religious is the product of over two centuries of Christians bestowing unto themselves a special status of privelege.  That is not the reason why this country was founded.  People like me & even people of religion are revolting against this movement & rightly so.  No one in this country should be relegated to second class status because their religious beliefs, or lack of, simply because they are different from the majority.  We are not anti religious.  We only want a fair playing field that the Constitution says we are entitled to.  We actually want Christians to enjoy the same legal status that we all should have under the law.  That is nothing more than equality. 

As for the evil in this country & in humanity in general, I don't have the answers.  What I can tell you is that every society in every time period has had some of the same problems.  Only the technology has changed.  That's in the history books also.  Will religion & prayer help?  Has it helped the murder rate in Jax?  Has it helped the people in Darfur? Africa?  The children who are abused or go hungry in this country? You tell me. JATFUR.

RichK

Religion without freedom gives you Islam.

Freedom without religion gives you anarchy.

Angela,

On the surface, it sounds good.  But I'm going to have to think @ that & get back to you.  It's late. I'm dreaming of a Super Bowl win for the Bears & worrying @ the pitifull choices we have for presidential candidates.  And the beat goes on.  Have a great night.  Sleepy time kisses to all of my fellow bloggers.  Sleep tight & don't let the bed bugs bite.  JATFUR.

RichK

Whether you agree with the Roman Catholic Church or not, were it not for the crusades, America would never have been founded based on European society. We would have all our religious services in mosques and be facing Mecca on prayer rugs. The Crusades drove back Islam for over 1000 years. If you thank Catholics for nothing else remember the Crusades. What do you think our war on terror is today but a Crusade, it just not initiated by Rome. Who is supporting us on this war, once again, it's the Europeans.

Angela,

Thought about it over night & have to admit I would change your words a bit.

Religion without freedom is, by most definitions, a theocracy.  A very distasteful pill to be swallowed. I won't restrict these sentiments to Islam alone.

I have to totally disagree with your statement, "Freedom without religion is anarchy," on several levels. For one thing, anarchy has been present in the past with or without religion so that alone reduces the validity of the statement.

For another, it just comes too close the ridiculous statement Mitt Romney made last week when he said, & I quote, "Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom."  Like some others, I just don't know from where he gets his ideas.  Like most other people, it did not require a doctorate in political sciences to ascertain that he was basically preaching to the converted, telling them, in effect, that he was just as Christian as they were minus the benefits of using some critical thinking processes.

Whether it was one of his speech writers or he  who wrote that into his speech, they just weren't thinking.  Practising one religion & only one religion does not require freedom.  It only requires enough power to enforce the exclusivity of that one religion.  Pracising more than one religion, legally, openly & freely as we do in this country does require freedom.  That's the difference.

There are millions of people in this country alone, I am one of them, who enjoy all the rights & responsibilities of freedom but do not practise any kind of religion.  We obey the laws & pay our taxes, sometimes to have those taxes used in an illegal manner, & respect the rights of others to practise their religions.  That is not anarchy.  That is nothing more than adhering to the laws.  Romney was flat wrong as the facts show.

Freedom without religion is...freedom.  JATFUR.

RichK

Islander,

If one were to consider the philosophies & actions of the two religions in history, there are not that many differences to be found, including the proclivity to force the respective religion upon the populace.  Actually prior to 1492, Islam was much more tollerant of other religions than Christianity was.  They have changed though, haven't they.

Being an agnostic, living in a country where one religion favors itself over others would not be anything new, regardless of the religion.  JATFUR.

RichK

Rick K I think you preach on the blogs the religion of "Freedom without religion". 

Angela,

If that's a compliment, thank you.  I don't ever recall being called a preacher nor have I ever considered myself one.  But, excersising the same rights as others to "preach," about a pro religious philosophy, I am justified in providing another, widely used & valid system of thought.  I like the system, some don't.  That's a beauty of the current system.  But it does have the virtue of working & working well.  If nothing else, it's a lot simpler & there's one less reason to oppress people &/or go to war.  JATFUR.

RichK