Christmas Rights
Read and weep Mr Libby....... In the name of political correctness towns and government schools across the country will be attempting to violate them. Are students allowed to sing Christmas carols with religious themes at school events or in holiday programs? YES. The Establishment Clause does not prevent the singing of Christmas carols with religious origins by public school choirs. A case that addressed this specific issue upheld the singing ofreligious Christmas carols in public schools. In Florey v. Sioux Falls School District, 619 F.2d1311 (8th Cir. 1980), the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held that thestudy and performance of religious songs, including Christmas carols, are constitutional if theirpurpose is the “advancement of the students’ knowledge of society’s cultural and religiousheritage, as well as the provision of an opportunity for students to perform a full range of music,poetry and drama that is likely to be of interest to the students and their audience.” Id. at 1314.
YES. The Establishment Clause does not prevent the singing of Christmas carols with religiousorigins by public school choirs. A case that addressed this specific issue upheld the singing ofreligious Christmas carols in public schools. In Florey v. Sioux Falls School District, 619 F.2d1311 (8th Cir. 1980), the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held that thestudy and performance of religious songs, including Christmas carols, are constitutional if theirpurpose is the “advancement of the students’ knowledge of society’s cultural and religiousheritage, as well as the provision of an opportunity for students to perform a full range of music,poetry and drama that is likely to be of interest to the students and their audience.” Id. at 1314. YES. The Establishment Clause does not prevent the singing of Christmas carols with religiousorigins by public school choirs. A case that addressed this specific issue upheld the singing ofreligious Christmas carols in public schools. In Florey v. Sioux Falls School District, 619 F.2d1311 (8th Cir. 1980), the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit held that thestudy and performance of religious songs, including Christmas carols, are constitutional if theirpurpose is the “advancement of the students’ knowledge of society’s cultural and religiousheritage, as well as the provision of an opportunity for students to perform a full range of music,poetry and drama that is likely to be of interest to the students and their audience.” Id. at 1314. Can schools teach about the biblical origins of holidays such as Christmasand Easter? YES. In Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39, 42 (1980), the Supreme Court stated, “the Bible mayconstitutionally be used in an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparativereligion, or the like.” Therefore, it would be constitutional for a public school teacher to havestudents study Biblical passages that relate to Christmas (e.g., Matthew 1:18-2:22, Luke 2:1-20)if the purpose was to study the historical or literary significance of the passages. In consideringthe type of activities that are appropriate in public schools, the federal appeals court in Floreystated, “[w]e view the term ‘study’ to include more than mere classroom instruction; publicperformance may be a legitimate part of secular study.” Florey, 619 F.2d at 1316. The Floreycourt went on to quote the lower court with approval, stating “[t]o allow students only to studyand not to perform [religious art, literature and music when] such works . . . have developed anindependent secular and artistic significance would give students a truncated view of ourculture.” Id. (alteration in original). Of course, any student that has ideological or religiousobjections to participating in a particular performance should be excused from the assignment. In Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39, 42 (1980), the Supreme Court stated, “the Bible mayconstitutionally be used in an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparativereligion, or the like.” Therefore, it would be constitutional for a public school teacher to havestudents study Biblical passages that relate to Christmas (e.g., Matthew 1:18-2:22, Luke 2:1-20)if the purpose was to study the historical or literary significance of the passages. In consideringthe type of activities that are appropriate in public schools, the federal appeals court in Floreystated, “[w]e view the term ‘study’ to include more than mere classroom instruction; publicperformance may be a legitimate part of secular study.” Florey, 619 F.2d at 1316. The Floreycourt went on to quote the lower court with approval, stating “[t]o allow students only to studyand not to perform [religious art, literature and music when] such works . . . have developed anindependent secular and artistic significance would give students a truncated view of ourculture.” Id. (alteration in original). Of course, any student that has ideological or religiousobjections to participating in a particular performance should be excused from the assignment. May schools display religious symbols during Christmas? YES. This issue was directly addressed in Clever v. Cherry Hill Township, 838 F. Supp. 929(D.N.J. 1993). In Clever, the plaintiffs challenged a school policy which provided for religioussymbols to be used in school calendars and in a Christmas display. After noting the importanceof context and the absence of denominational preference, the court held the policy to beconstitutional. The court noted:Christmas and Chanukah are celebrated as cultural and national holidays as wellas religious ones, and there is simply no constitutional doctrine which wouldforbid school children from sharing in that celebration, provided that thesecelebrations do not constitute an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and areconsistent with a school’s secular educational mission. This issue was directly addressed in Clever v. Cherry Hill Township, 838 F. Supp. 929(D.N.J. 1993). In Clever, the plaintiffs challenged a school policy which provided for religioussymbols to be used in school calendars and in a Christmas display. After noting the importanceof context and the absence of denominational preference, the court held the policy to beconstitutional. The court noted:Christmas and Chanukah are celebrated as cultural and national holidays as wellas religious ones, and there is simply no constitutional doctrine which wouldforbid school children from sharing in that celebration, provided that thesecelebrations do not constitute an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and areconsistent with a school’s secular educational mission. Are students permitted to write about the origin of Christmas and the birthof Jesus or other religious sentiments in school assignments? YES. Some educators have been misinformed by special interest groups that school officialsmust ban all religious speech in the public schools because of the doctrine of “separation ofchurch and state.” It is well settled, however, that private religious speech—including the speechof students—is protected by the First Amendment. In Capitol Square & Advisory Bd. v. Pinette,the Supreme Court stated:Our precedent establishes that private religious speech, far from being a FirstAmendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secularprivate expression. Indeed, in Anglo-American history, at least, governmentsuppression of speech has so commonly been directed precisely at religiousspeech that a free-speech clause without religion would be Hamlet without theprince.515 U.S. 753, 760 (1995) (internal citationsomitted). In Mergens, the Court noted: “[T]here is acrucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the EstablishmentClause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free ExerciseClauses protect.” 496 U.S. at 250. YES. School districts are under no constitutional obligation to rename the Christmas and Easterholidays. The Supreme Court itself has acknowledged with approval that Congress gives federalemployees a paid holiday on December 25 and calls that holiday “Christmas.” See Lynch v.Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, 675, 680 (1984); see also Ganulin v. United States, 71 F. Supp. 2d 824(S.D. Ohio 1999), aff’d, 238 F.3d 420 (6th Cir. 2000) (upholding the federal law makingChristmas a legal holiday). School districts are under no constitutional obligation to rename the Christmas and Easterholidays. The Supreme Court itself has acknowledged with approval that Congress gives federalemployees a paid holiday on December 25 and calls that holiday “Christmas.” See Lynch v.Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, 675, 680 (1984); see also Ganulin v. United States, 71 F. Supp. 2d 824(S.D. Ohio 1999), aff’d, 238 F.3d 420 (6th Cir. 2000) (upholding the federal law makingChristmas a legal holiday). For a more extensive list and more in depth insight as to the sited court cases you may check out the websites of The American Center For Law & Justice or The Liberty Council. I just copied and pasted the highlites. Hope this helps.
Submitted by Marsha on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 8:08pm.
I am inclined to agree with you RichK. Mr/Ms Baldwin, were the repeating copy and paste on purpose to make a point or was it an "oops"? I've made a few "oops" in the blogs myself with repetition. Like RichK I am left wanting some personal input about what your point is. Welcome to the blogs, now can you please give us a few words of your own on the subject matter at hand so I don't make an ass out of myself making assumptions that you are "Pro Christmas"
Submitted by Sunflower on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 8:34pm.
I agree with RichK and Marsha. I am confused by your purpose and the point you are trying to make. From glancing at your copied information, I'm guessing you are rather adament about your feelings (as I have been known to be on this blog). We all welcome your input, but would like to hear from you personally. And...who is Mr. Libby? Submitted by SoloVoce on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 9:13pm.
Jbaldwin, Just for the record, I am in favor of any person puting up any kind of religious Christmas display on their property, their neighbors property, (with permission, of course) the place of their religious activities, their private religious schools, or their place of worship. I also don't care if they put a religious display on public property, as long as it is not under the auspices of any governmental agency or paid by public funds. If public schools want to sing Christmas carols or put on a religious performance, I don't care. As long as it does not violate any law,s who should care? For future reference, all of this confusion could be totally avoided if you you make your point clear from the onset. Just a hint from an agnostic from the old school in Chicago. There's an old saying that serves a person quite nicely. It says, "Only a fool brings a knife to a gunfight." I'll be what some people might be considered politically incorrect at this point and say that you came came with an agenda, an attitude & were totally unprepared to present your views. If you are under the age of 18, you have my apologies. Please take this opportunity to learn as we all have had to do. If you are over that age, you should have known better & prepared yourself in the manner of communicating your ideas. In other words, you brought a very, very, dull knife. Take the advice from Marsha & Sunflower. We have a great group of people here with vastly different views on a wide range of topics. We gladly accept, & are eager to hear & respect the right of any person to voice their viewpoint. But we need to actually hear what you feel. We have the attitude that even if we disagree, & trust me, we do, we all know that we have the opportunity to learn & make ourselves better. And dats da name of dat tune baby. Please do not hesitate to drop in & give us YOUR opinion on any subject. That is just one of the values of this blog. JATFUR. RichK Submitted by Sunflower on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 10:36pm.
Just want to say I LOVE all of the lights and holiday festivities. I don't care what the occasion is - I just like to see the various and creative decor aligning our streets, our waterways (i.e., the Swimming Pen Creek displays). I am either too lazy, too cheap, or both to make a contribution to our neighborhood by putting up the lights and Santa displays, but I sure do appreciate those who make that effort. I have no formal religion, but respect those who do, and I truly appreciate the demonstations of love for our Creator and our Universe, no matter who the Source is. Thanks to all of you who make a difference and enhance our lives. Sincerely, Submitted by Sunflower on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 10:57pm.
I am from a very small community where (everyone knows my name)! I was a high school cheerleader, a member of the band (played the sax, first seat), honor society and activist. I was also a choir member and a singer in the "special" choir, the smaller one. I was the best alto. So, now you all now know who I am. I have never been silent and sometimes I speak too much (ya think?). But I have a good heart, a big mouth, and sometimes, the two don't meet up too well. I also am very intelligent, a skeptic, and can outsarcasm the best of the best. I can sing every word of all the Christmas carols, and play almost every note (in my head) of the orchestra playing Bach, Beethoven, and Bing Crosby. Most of my songs in my head have to do with love of one another. I love caroling. Does anyone do that anymore? I have old friends who could melt your heart with their renditions of "Oh Holy NIght" - the one with the best voice moved to Norway in 1978. Our loss, Norway's gain. So, to you all, I am Sunflower (using that name because it describes me now) and I guess I'm still wondering what wbalwin's point is. I believe in a higher power and hope that all of us can enjoy our holiday no matter what, and that no one should be in charge of Christmas.
Submitted by lilyslore on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 11:05pm.
Well, if nothing else wbaldwin (and I certainly hope this isn't the least talented of the Baldwin brothers) has awakened us to the harsh reality that anyone is capable of buying a computer and stumbling onto a blog site. I'm still not sure of the link here but somehow he may be trying to incorporate Scooter Libby and attempts of some atheistic groups to ban Christmas ceremonies. I may be off base here because I don't understand it any more than you fellow bloggers. Hopefully all will be revealed before Christmas. Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman
Submitted by Marsha on Thu, 11/29/2007 - 11:18pm.
I've been listening to Christmas Music while doing my decorating this week, just how much decorating I do is a whole other conversation but it takes me about ten days to get it all up. I love all the traditional Christmas music both spiritual and secular. I love to hear Bing sing White Christmas, I love to hear Elvis singing "Silent Night" "O Holy Night" and the Beach Boys "Merry Christmas Angel" etc but if I want to have some Christmas fun I still love listening to the Chipmunks Christmas Carols, there is a movie about to come out in time for Christmas with the Chipmunks that should be some light hearted entertainment. Maybe Alvin will finally get his hoooola hooooop! I can hardly stand the wait, please Christmas don't be laaaaaaaaaate.
Submitted by Baxley on Fri, 11/30/2007 - 1:04am.
Nostalgia - I remember walking from house to house in Guyton, GA singing Christmas carols as a member of the Methodist youth choir. Like something right out of a movie. Has anyone seen any carolers (is that a word?) recently? Christmas - the absolute best time of year. My Mom collects Santa Clauses all year round, and must have hundreds. They all go on display this time of year - very cool. Sunflower - opening up. "One time at band camp . . ." Band nerds rule. Cheerleader too? You were the one hot chick in band Merry Christmas. Silent Night, Holy Night.
Submitted by jimmaxie on Fri, 11/30/2007 - 6:26am.
we should set a date and have hot choc and caroling in the our park. I could bring the hot cocoa and you could bring the carols and carolers. I can't sing worth a hoot.. we could invite the whole neighborhood and cost of admission would be a can of food or toy to donate to a local chairity. We used to have these "christmas block parties" back in the day Just a time for neighbors to share the joy of the season. At the end of the party those that wanted to could go door to door and carol their little hearts out...Oh what fun.... http://www.myspace.com/jimmaxie People are talking about ...Here are the recent blog postings with the most comments. |
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wbaldwin,
Assuming your extensive copy & paste is accurate & up to date, & one can only assume, one has to ask if there is a point somewhere to be made. I only ask this because of such a total lack of direction & personal input. One also has to ask where political corectness enters the picture when & if a violation of a law is the point of contention. Sorry, but your lack of personal explanation on the subject makes my inquiry necessary.
RichK
PS. Merry Christmas. Ho, Ho, Ho!