The Glass is Half Full, no pessimism here

The College Drive connector is very critical to providing access throughout the county. The Cleveland Connector was later determined to better be served by using Parkridge and over to Brannan Field to provide access to the current citizens. I would consider this a midway point in the county and very critical to moving traffic in and out of the county.

College Drive Extension P D & E Study was done at a significant cost to the citizens of Clay County. I would encourage any citizen concerned with the traffic research public records for how much this did cost the citizens. The study can be found online at http://www.claycountygov.com/  access BCC Departments and under Engineering to see the study that was done.

It is listed as #8 on the MPO list that was release in August 2007 and the #2 project that affects Clay County.

#8 College Dr Extension North (Design FY 08/09) Blanding Blvd (SR21) to Branan Field Rd (SR 23) New Construction 4 lanes to secure ROW 18.7 million (9 million was wasted on the dumping scandal) This is a prime example of what corruption does in our government at the detriment to the citizens.

However, the Outer Beltway somehow was moved to #1 of the MPO list, which is clearly for future growth.

I think we need to get our priorities in order and work on the current problems we face in the county that will provide the most benefit to the citizens. The cost to the citizens of the P D & E study that was done and has already been paid for.

The Orange Park area is the most heavily populated of Clay County and will rightfully cause the most vocal objections from the residents. However, that will still result in the traffic on Blanding to get down to Orange Park area. As we all know Blanding is considered a failed road.

As a District 3 candidate, I think Mike brings up some excellent points in his blog and a point I think everyone in his district should support. The groundwork had been laid and we need to see this Extension come to pass for the citizens in the county. So we don't have continued waste of taxpayers money for the Study that went nowhere and the traffic that continues to back up on Blanding. While we decide how to help developers with the Outer Beltway and the destruction of the Shands Bridge.

How about if the county focused on the intersection (Blanding and College) and the north extension became part of the Outer Beltway as a connector road? The concessionaire could build it.

You're right, any extension is critical to moving traffic north and south.

What we should do is work on projects for the traffic that is currently impacted by the current growth. I think the County Manager is supportive of the impact fees for transportation in the county. I think these fees will pass. Kudos! The county is behind in its obligation to the citizens. 

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/111807/met_218577740.shtml

The College Dr. Extension should impact people from Kingsley to over to Hwy 17 down to Knight Boxx and be a critical connector, and with the work currently being planned for 220 would make it a natural choice. 

We can worry about the Outer Beltway which could take the #8 place on the MPO and then the county not be subject too so much growth before we fix some of the problems we have currently.

You know we can come up with a lot of ideas but we need funds. We should concentrate those funds we have invested already on the projects that have been started and will make the most impact to the current residents in the county. Those who have been grossly neglected and has placed us in this position.

I am very much opposed to a Transportation Authority in Clay County.

I feel the same way. I don't support a Transportation Authority when a regional authority is in place. It makes more sense to look at Northeast Florida as a system of transportation needs, not county by county.

I can't remember where I read it, maybe it was you Angela, but someone said we (Clay County) need to be more heavily invested in the agencies that have already been established. I agree. We probably need to push Clay's needs with some added gusto.

I have ambivalent feelings about the road impact fees. I understand the need and logic behind charging these fees but I'm also looking at Clay's economy and realizing that outside the housing industry, there is nothing in place to sustain families in those industries should the housing market continue or worsen.

There is a chance of pricing so many people out of new homes that many of current residents will suffer. That's a pretty heavy price to pay if your entire livlihood and family's well being rely on new home purchases. These folks have been tax-paying citizens for a lot of years. They deserve our consideration.

With a moratorium in place until at least May '08, I question how much money will be generated because these fees are on future development, not past development. I don't know the legality of applying this new fee to projects currently under consideration. Perhaps they can start with what is already in house.

Ultimately, I think the impact fee will pass. Roads are too important to our quality of life.

I feel the pain of the people who work outside the county and make the commutes each day that has won us the award of being the #1 worst commute.

We need to make that a top priority in our county. I think we have time for an Outer Beltway later.

I will assure Baxley that I personally know of counties in Central Fl that have been charging impact fees for well over 10 years. This did not stop the building as evidenced by the fact they have no water because of all the building.

They have enjoyed the benefits of not charging those fees at the detriment of the citizens in the county for many years.

If this would have been done sooner as the County Manager has rightfully pointed out we would not have gridlock today.

Short term goal fix our problems, long term goals work on the future growth.

"Your potential constituents deserve to know what relationships exist and how they affect the positions you take on issues facing the County."

In another blog about your imaginary conspiracy between Tom Platt and me, you said that.  Still feel the same way now?  Who's the potential County Commissioner who shares the views you espoused here?

Michael S. Mann

OneMann,

As I recall, I did not accuse you or Mr. Platt of a conspiracy rather I asked if it was a coincidence that you both filed on the same day, just to clarify. Nothing sinister in that.

I support my statement which you quoted above and respecfully disagree the same standard applies in this case. Both you and Mr. Platt are announced candidates. You have voluntarily gone on record that you want to hold public office. The person I had dinner with has not and consequently, it is not my information to announce. If and when that happens, I'll be more than happy to disclose the relationship if given permission to do so. This is a very bright, capable leader with forward-thinking ideas for our county.

Thanks, OneMann for the opportunity to respond. It's nice to clear up the air.

Angela, your use of facts and statistics and statute numbers is indeed impressive.  Though our philosophies on issues is often at odds, I applaud your factual approach to writing on the blog site.

The debate about the major issues facing Clay County such as transportation, economic development, local officials, etc. hopefully will extend to the upcoming political season, and the candidates will join in and share their opinions.  As voters, we should expect nothing less.  Thanks to Mike Mann for being on the cutting edge of the debate.

Angela, yes, I realize impact fees have been around for a long time and Florida continues to grow at a strong pace.  I could fill pages with why I think it is unfair to tax only new home buyers to fix a transportation problem that has been decades in the making, and I would never convince you to change your mind.  As before, we will have to agree to disagree.  I will predict that impact fees are not the final solution to this mess.  This is the government moving from an ad valorem revenue stream to a fee based revenue stream.  Can't remember if you were for or against the garbage fee, but that's the same sort of thing.  If it helps, I strongly supported universal garbage collection.  How it was presented to the citizens was a debacle, but the end result is a major plus for Clay County.  For or against - always depends on which side of the fence you're on.

The Outer Beltway is a regional transportation project, not just a Clay County project.  I do support the Outer Beltway.  I agree a more southerly route than the current southern route seemed to make more sense to me, but I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the issue.  A lot of effort has gone into this project, and it didn't move from #8 to #1 on the MPO list by accident.  Good or bad, a 295-type beltway around the congested part of Clay County will support the economic development many want.  I think it is unrealistic to think job-creating economic development is going to happen, and not create more people moving to Clay County.  The Evaluation and Appraisal Report (EAR) for the Comprehensive Plan projects a population of 267,386 in 2015.

Baxley sorry about the factual blogging style, a bad habit I'm told. I am convinced that "true reform comes only when the light of public scrutiny is shined on government."

The impact fees that have been charged in other Florida counties for well over 10 years were not the result of the change from ad valorem revenues. This may be the conditions and/or stated reasons of today's political climate in Clay County, but not the past.

I will say this, had Clay County been charging impact fees along with the building permits those feeding from that trough may have gorged until they exploded.  

I will agree it may not be a cure all for the transportation problems, but as far behind the curve as Clay County is in that area. I think all developer/builders should step up to the plate and help fix a problem they helped create. That is if they care about the welfare of the community as they profess. Instead it is complaints and workshops looking to add yet another exemption into the ordinance that will give them credits.

As far as the Outer Beltway which is clearly for future growth. I would expect no less from a person in the developer/builder industry to support.

I will say a lot gets factored in when a project is moved to #1. I can think of a few reasons Saratoga Springs, Black Creek (LAMPA), Governor's Creek, and Kindlewood. Oh I forgot they threw in Peter' Creek Business Park so they could say it was for economic development.

Housing developements Saratoga Springs is reported to be 2400 acres with 4300 units planned. Black Creek has 8000 developable acres. Those 2 should sound familiar to the readers of the blogs.

This is where the developer just appeared before the board requesting taxpayer perks for the donation with string attached. However according to a pre-application document LandMar filed with the Northeast Florida Regional Council, the developer proposed more than $50 million in road improvements to the area, including 9 miles of new and upgraded roads on and off site. Governor's Creek is the reported to be about 10,000 acres. Kindlewood is the smallest CDD ever approved in Clay County at the last BCC meeting by the Commissioners.

Northeast Florida Regional Council member is the taxpayers osted pro-growth St John's County Commissioner Karen Stern landed by the appointment of Governor pro-growth Bush. She was then reappointed by Governor Crist after he took office.

Well I have learned, if we vote them out then our beloved government leaders then appointment them to positions that give them even greater influence, or make them selected Commissioners.

Orange-Osceola State Attorney Lamar say's it best "Developers, he said, have too much influence in the political system, and closer attention must be paid to the relationship between donors and those who vote on their projects. We can't run the state on a good-ol'-boy network forever," Lamar said.

If you think I have just shown about 30,000 acres being leveled. Well wait to see how much of Clay County's landscape is leveled with the Outer Beltway so we can build more houses.

One of the problems with economic development in Clay County is the disproportionate residential growth. Between 75% and 85% of all economic activity in Clay County is the result of Clay County residents working in Duval County.

The county has grown in size over the last ten years at a rate faster than some of the strongest economies in the nation. The growth in the size of the economy has been the result of the growth of Duval County.

While the county has grown in size, it has actually declined in quality at a rate comparable to some of the weakest economies in the nation. Wages paid in Clay County are some of the lowest in the nation. This is the result of the formation of an extremely large number of low wage service and retail jobs and the absence of high wage primary industries.

Clay County projects 10,000 new jobs in the next 10 years. Well if the EAR numbers you list Baxley are the totals then most of us will be working outside of the county. Because Duval and St. Johns will need to create 50,000 jobs for Clay County residents.

As Mike Mann said sometime in the distant future when industry comes but until then we will deal with more traffic, schools, police, and fire, with the housing developments already approved. By the way an excellent position to come out front on Mike as a candidate.

Baxley, I am sure we could talk about the Highlands DRI and what a disaster that is as well. It should be showing it's ugly head sometime around Dec.

Angela,

As the Queen of Public Records (and she is) reports to the MCS blog community that the reason we're in dire straights in Clay County is because of the disproportionate number of low-paying service and retail jobs and the absence of high-wage primary industry jobs. No duh. The Chamber has been screaming this for umpteen years.

Clay's job projections over the next 10 years are 1-4 to St. Johns and Duval counties (per her estimations). That's not new information either.

The Outer Beltway stands to become a major economic beltway that doesn't support retail and low-paying wages but instead supports bed taxes and industrial pockets of higher-paying ad valorem taxes.

Respectfully Angela, I'm sure you'll have an appropriate response, but no matter what your response, Clay County stands to benefit more from the development of the Outer Beltway than all of the approved residential communities combined.

That's where we're at.

Angela,

I appreciate the factual nature of your writing.  It's funny, though, how people can take the same facts and arrive at such different conclusions.  Your last blog basically provides facts to support the following three positions:

1) You believe we'd be in better shape if we'd had impact fees sooner.  And since we didn't, developers need to step up and help fix the problem.

2) There are 30,000 acres of housing developments, plus the outer beltway proposed for Clay County.  You believe the Outer Beltway will result in future growth.

3) The quality of our county has suffered as a result of disproportionate residential growth which promotes only lower wage jobs in the county.  Clay needs more high paying jobs.

I usually find myself with a different point of view as I read your blogs, which is why I had to stop myself this time and when I realized that I agree with your three points completely.  I agree that impact fees would have helped; that the Outer Beltway will result in growth; and that Clay needs more high paying jobs.  The question is: WHAT NOW? We can't step back in time and take away development rights or retroactively assess impact fees.  What the County can do is take constructive steps to attract high paying jobs and business to our County via the Outer Beltway.  Yes, this will increase growth.  We need to start assessing impact fees so that when the 30,000 acres are built upon, the County is positioned to invest in infrastructure.  The County must address the existing problems resulting from poor prior planning.  So while I agree with your premise, I think the County is taking steps to address the problems.

Margo

I'm sorry if this is too far astray for this blog, but here it goes -

The Highlands DRI is going to be considered for Comp Plan Amendment transmittal to Dept. of Community Affairs at the Nov. 27 BCC meeting, 7 pm.  At a Clay Hill Community Association meeting a few months ago, an unoffical written referendum was taken and the DRI was supported 2 to 1 by those in attendance.  A major part of the DRI is over 1,000,000 sq. ft. of industrial development - you know, the kind that could help create something other than low-paying jobs.  It will be (if it passes) located in the northwest corner of Clay County where people can access Duval County via US-301 (at 50% capacity), or CR-217 to Normandy to Jax.  This is growth that will have minimal impact on SR-21.  The developer will be required to 4-lane a significant portion of CR-218 West (several miles).  The CSX rail line runs beside the projected DRI and allows for excellent rail access to future job-producing industrial sites.  Currently, there is a lumber mill, an asphalt plant, and other industrial related sites in the same vicinity.  Seems pretty logical to me that it would be in the best interest of the County to locate more industry near existing industry, and near transportation corridors (road & rail) that are not already overcrowded.

But, what do I know.  I'm just an evil greedy builder.  Where's me another tree to cut down?

In response to Key2life, I'm glad you recognize for the blogging community what Durwood has been saying umpteen times at the BCC meetings to the Commissioners, and taxpayers.

The Chamber should stand on its own 2 legs instead of supporting issues that are against the taxpayers choices, and instead of running around screaming about the dire straights of Clay County economic development or lack thereof. Why haven't they been doing something? We have certainly been giving them money for something. I know, 10 years later they think its time to finally react. As Commissioner Bush calls them the do nothing Chamber. He has even went so far as to vote "no" on anything to do with the Chamber for the very reasons I just listed. If the business community doesn't support the Chamber then why should the taxpayers?

Durwood thank you again for looking out for the taxpayers in Clay County. 

Margo,

Let me say, I used the 30,000 acres as a small example there is more. We could take the 18,000 in the Branan Field development and the 30,000 in Lake Asbury to go with the Developments of Regional Impacts I listed above. I think now we are getting close to 100,000 acres. Should I go on.

Clay County is a bedroom community either by happenstance or design.

As far as the amendment to the comp plan for the change of the land use for the State Hwy 16 areas lets review what staffs thoughts were on the changes.

I quote, "Staff finds that this amendment is not consistent with the Comprehensive Plan.  The amendment would further urban sprawl, and would create a land use pattern that is generally incompatible with the rural nature of the surrounding area.  The Lake Asbury Master Plan designates adequate land to serve the needs of the Planning District through the planning period.  Staff feels that there is no compelling need to convert these lands at this time.  To do so would encourage the premature conversion of additional agriculture lands in the area."

It is odd what wealthy power brokers behind the scenes in Clay County can get done including Outer Beltways.

I will say the lack of available sites and existing buildings for economic industry is a #1 problem.

The taxpayers should recognize the impact of what all of these developments will mean to them until available sites and buildings can be located, constructed and targeted industry to agree to come and occupy those buildings.

In the meantime we will need added numbers of school employees such as teachers, administrative and support personnel. Additional police, fire, and EMS personnel. 

The Clay County Chamber of Commerce reflects the average wage for Clay at $26,000, and this critical support staff  that would be needed would not even be able to afford a house in these developments.

While the county has grown in size, it has actually declined in quality at a rate comparable to some of the weakest economies in the nation.

We need to pause to control and manage our growth, put in the infrastructure that the current residents need and should have been given to stop this gridlock.

If anyone thinks for one moment this Outer Beltway will remove the bedroom community status and industry will just appear then they need to think again. 

I will say, we should all hope that Duval's growth continues.

If these jobs are not created by the other counties, Clay County’s economic growth will stall and the standard of living for the people living and working in the county will decline rapidly.

I would suggest to anyone living along where this beltway will be constructed. You need to look at I-295 and Blanding and if the low wage paying jobs and motels are not your idea of what you want next to you, then you should prepare accordingly. 

What now? Sign the petition for Hometown Democracy and vote yes.

The Commissioners, county manager, and planning staff of Bradford County says it best. We are an arrogant county who wants neighboring counties to pay for our poor planning.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18742306&BRD=2150&PAG=461&dept_id=377017&rfi=6

Angela, Margo and Bax

My understanding is that the CC Planning Commission has recommended denial of the Highland DRI to the Zoning folks (meeting Tuesday, Nov. 27 at 7 p.m.). The justification for their recommendation is that there are no assurances that the industrial park will be built (either before or after the houses are built).

Tuesday could be a significant decision with this DRI. There are some who feel the developer is pushing to get this through because of the impending menace of Hometown Democracy on the ballot.