ARE WE BEING DOUBLE TAXED

We pay tax on the water that comes into our homes and once again  when it goes out

we were paying $89 a year for garbage tax and now we have an extra $140 to pay for them to pick it up 

Don't get me started on all the taxes that are on cell phones and land lines.

"They will steal the pennies from your eyes"

once again this is just my view

I know that evil word of consolidation will stir a hornet’s nest on this site.  Outofsort that is the reason a lot of areas disband cities and become consolidated governments.  In a lot of cases it makes since.  Why have three police 911 dispatch centers in the county?  Why not combine all three under one roof and take calls for service and dispatch them.  It cost a lot of money to fund these centers with space, equipment, repairs, and employees.  I doubt this will ever happen because not many small towns will surrender their police department to a Sheriff’s Office.  It makes sense dollars wise to have one county law enforcement agency to police the entire county.  I would vote for consolidation.  Maybe I will get a petition drive started and get it on the ballot.  Where is Durwood Smith?

Callahan

The only good thing about the $140.00 is that it is on the tax bill so we can claim it on our Tax Return.

I had always heard there was another half to the pennies line.... 'then they'll kick you in the butt because they weren't nickles.

Must be showing my age. :)

Finder

Magnumforce---

You're correct in thinking that your suggestion will stir a hornet's nest! The towns of OP and GCS have two  ivory palaces (City Hall) to be paid for by the residents of those cities! Doing away with their governments and police departments, etc. makes far too much sense---Remember this is CLAY COUNTY, where elected officials profit off the backs of the citizens.

What is most amazing to me is the new GCS City Hall. It's quite a building, sitting significantly empty. So much empty space that GCS residents should really wonder why the need for a new police department building, when the city hall has space.

Yes, it makes sense to have one county law enforcement agency to police the entire county.

Any citizen is can start a petition drive to place an amendment on the ballot. As for Durwood, contact him at claycitizens@claycitizens.com. He'll be glad to talk to you and give you his advice.

First I think the consolidation of the services would be a great idea.

I would like to say the first thing that should happen is the Constitutionals need to be under the charter so we can audit their books. They use over half of the budget now and we cannot go in and see their books. When their books are audited by outside agencies it is only a spot audit. Could someone say when the Sheriff's Office had a complete audit of their books from top to bottom and see how the money is spent and if there is room for savings to the citizens?

This is why we had the problems with the credit cards and Sheriff Lancaster. No one bothered to spot audit that area. He came away with a spotless audit time and time again. Listen I would like to know everything his office is doing with my taxdollars. He is getting 60 million dollars of our tax money and we need to see what he is doing with that money.

Double Taxed:

Clay County population 180K

Law enforcement milliage combined cost 4.25 milliage for the Sheriff's Office.

Marion County population of over 300K

Law enforcement milliage combined cost 2.59 milliage for the Sheriff's Office.

I will ask you are we getting ripped off or what?

We need some amendments on the ballot now to vote on in 2008.

outofsorts go to Marion County's tax collectors office and search their records. You may be shocked at what we are paying for and especially those in the incorporated areas like yourself. 

The double taxation issue came up many years ago, and OP and GCS sued the county for that money and won or reached a settlement.  Where that allocation of money goes now, or how much, I do not know.  It would be interesting to learn if the county is still refunding that money.

BTW, unless I read outofsort's msg wrong, I think he wanted to get the Sheriffs people out of GCS, not GCS out of business.  I'm know OP residents want to keep their police, and I think most GCS residents want to keep theirs also.

I am going to agree with Outofsorts and disagree with Magnumforce.

The people of Green Cove Springs and Orange Park generally favor keeping their own police force.  The response-time of those agencies is extraordinary--less than two minutes to have an officer respond to an emergency call.  The residents of the unincorporated areas wait about ten times longer.  When there is an emergency, two minutes can seem like a very long time.  Twenty minutes is an eternity.

Green Cove Springs needs a Police Department. The City hosts the County Jail which routinely rotates criminals out onto GCS streets when the criminal comfy level declines due to over-crowding.  When criminals are set free from the County jail, the County doesn't transport them to the same place they were arrested.  The County lets them out the back door onto Palmetto Avenue where they are free to  disrupt the peace, quiet and safety of GCS.  GCS police work in overdrive to deal with this problem.

Security is a primary local responsibility and it should be "layered".  Should the local police have the responsibility to lock up your home everytime you leave?  Absolutely not!  That is a family responsibility. You wouldn't want to trust the local police to do that sort of thing in a timely manner.  Would you want to wait for FDLE in Jacksonville to respond when a home invasion occurs in Clay  County?  Let's not be stupid!  You want the most appropriate local response available.  We're talking about life-threatening situations here.  In GCS, the GCSPD is much faster than CCSO in a tactical situation.

Let's address the issue of dispatch.  I've spent 21 years in the US Army infantry.  The hard and fast rule of thumb regarding command and control of tactical situations is that you always control your means of communications.  When you give up dispatch, through consolidation of the dispatch process, you give up your ability to command and control.  This jeopardizes the lives of people who are in the midst of an emergency, and it creates unneccessary risks for the police officers.  Thank you Magnumforce, but its my neighbors and my police officers we're talking about--I'll keep my own radios.

Commissioner Bradley and County Manager Behring took good first steps this year to address the double taxation issue by creating the fire and law enforcement Municipal Services Taxing Units (MSTUs).  This system allows the BCC to reduce the tax rate for services where people don't receive the service.  The taxpayers of Orange Park have paid for their own police and fire departments for years.  They shouldn't have to also pay for the cost of Clay county police and fire which don't provide service within the municipal boundaries.  The Taxpayers of GCS have paid for their own police department for years.  They shouldn't have to also pay for the cost of Clay county police which doesn't provide service within the municipal boundries.  The MSTUs took the first step in fixing the problem.  The municipal residents still pay for sheriff patrol services they don't receive, but not as much as they did prior to the MSTU ordinance.  This needs to be fixed in future budgets.

Regarding Pioneer's "Ivory Palace" comments.  I agree that GCS has way too much room in the new City Hall and I believe the building cost way more than it should have.  That was before my time on Council.  The Mayor and I have continued to push the concept of leasing excess space to benefit the taxpayers who own the building.  The City Manager continues to ignore requirements, set by City Council, to lease out excess space.  The City's problem goes primarily to a single appointed official.  What's the County's problem?  It looks to me like they are building an "Ivory Palace" many times larger and many orders of magnitude more expensive than the City Halls in GCS or OP.  GCS and OP aren't pushing the costs of Knowles' Pit cleanup on the Clay County residents.  They weren't even in that decision-making loop.  GCS and OP have their own infrastructure issues, but they weren't the level of government that threw out the boat anchors on development of new roads to reduce the commute time (which is first of the worst in the state) for the residents of the County.

Before we preach consolidation, I want to see that we have a tradition of good county governance worth practicing.

When this idea was presented to create the MSTU this was to get away from the interlocal agreements of returning funds to those municipalities. This was a good idea in concept, because it tended to create too much good ole boys behind the scenes happenings.

Orange Park and Green Cove are suppose to pay their own way which pretty much do with the taxes collected from those residents.

However, Key Stone Heights and Penney Farms both are not self-sufficient and they should either stand on their own feet or join the county and move on. Either tax your residents for their services are get out of the business of pretending to be a city while dragging on the skirts of the county taxpayers.

Keystone and Penney Farms both appeared before the board stating they could not continue without funding from the county taxpayers. The County Manager reneged on that deal granting Keystone and Penney Farms a 3 year plan to wean them slowly.

The free lunch should be over and the County Manager or the Commissioners should have rejected that plan and let them either raise taxes or disband. Tough love I hear its called. I call it continued waste of taxpayers dollars.

The CCSO under this sheriff that continues to preach his savings plan is anything but what he is presenting, just check out those tax bills. These Constitutionals need to be placed under the Charter which they will decry louder than any consolidation ideas presented on the blogs. This return of the 1.1 million is a shell game with strings attached.

While I have the ear of a GCS upper echelon. I think they cried foul because of the other 2 municipalities and to smooth over the matter an interlocal agreement was discussed concerning giving GCS about 100K.

I will agree I want to see that we have a tradition of good county governance worth practicing too.

I NEVER NEVER SAID TO GET RID OF OUR POLICE DEPT. THEY ARE GREAT, HOW COULD YOU REPLACE 19 OFFICERS WITH TWO.ALL I,AM SAYING IS THAT WE THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF OP AND GCS ARE PAYING OVER 2 MILLION DOLLARE FOR SERVICES WE DON,T RECEIVE.REMEMBER THE BOSTON TEA PARTY.

There is alot of that going around, ask those who have never had children but pay taxes for the school system, or Seniors who perhaps once had kids but they're now grown and they're living on fixed incomes. 

We didn't do all that illegal dumping but we're going to pay for it nonetheless. 

Citizens who have no medical care of their own in Duval County are going to pay for health care for the terminated Superintendent of Schools for awhile longer. 

There is no common sense in goverment.

I knew some of you would miss the boat on this topic. No where did I say get rid of the police department or cut officers assigned to a city.  I have been reading these blogs for several months now.  Are any of you willing to step up to the plate and put your name on the ballot for a county office or are you going to sit back and complain and arm chair quarterback the past and present leadership?  If you can do a better job contact the Supervisor of Elections and get your paper work filed.  Most of you are on target reference issues that have plagued this county and some of you have some good ideas in fixing some problems.  Some of you are so far out of the ball park you don’t know a game is being played.  This mess we are in goes back to the Commission leadership for the past 35 years.  It just didn’t get this way over night.   If I was in a position that I could retire from my current job I would run for one of these offices and show the citizens what vision and leadership is about.  I will tell you that I have no problem telling any of the elected officials in this county that they are off base on some of the issues.  I ran into a Commissioner in the grocery store the other day and we had a good debate about tax issues and waste of money that goes on in the county.  I hope that you do the same when you see them in public and not just post your concerns on this blog.  Well, I got get strapped in my recliner for NFL football you know it can be a bumpy ride for about 10 hours on Sunday.  Go Jags, and Go Noles!

Callahan

Marsha,

I am one of those folks.  I have a tax bill of $3, 400.00  I have no kids in the schools system and never have, and never will.  Maybe I should ask them to refund that portion.

 Callahan

so whether we have kids in the public school system or not, someone has paid their share even beofre my kids came around to pay for those buildings they're now being schooled in. The way I see it, its kind of like churches. You have one generation who somewhere along the line paid to have one of the buildings built. Then there is need for expansion or another building, the next generation pays for that, and so on. Not to mix church and state, just showing an example of how even though our kids are out of school or not even in school yet, we all pay into the kitty to maintain systems.

Personally, my belief is that we are our Brothers Keeper, and that to a degree we should all contribute to the well being of our society. Even if you have no children I think that investing in the Education of our young people benefits the Nation as a whole, but I still understand the frustration of those who feel differently.  Your point about building upon what came before us and those that paid it was brilliant. 

That being said though, I still believe there is no common sense in goverment, and even less in the tax system. 

I'm hoping Hometown Democracy will be the beginning of some common sense for the State.

Most people I know and me included really don'y have a problem with paying taxes and we all pay for something we don't use, be it parks, schools or seniors centers. Where taxes become a major issue is with abuse of power, arrogance of officials, and pure waste. (REMEMBER THE UTILITY TAX )  Each year the county buget goes up at a rate of about 4 times the CPI and about 5 times the rate of population growth and yet we see less and less for it. How long can we afford it?

Mkelter,

I am not surprise that a politician would be against consolidation.  Holy cow I will never surrender my power or save the taxpayer money. A small wind storm of 30 mph can sweep through town and the power is out for 3-4 hours.   I believe you missed the boat on my post.  I never said cut officers or dispatchers in the city.  Also the city may respond faster to a tactical situation but are they prepared to handle a SWAT call all by themselves?  If you believe so you are endangering your officers that you claim to be so passionate about.  I know that the PD’s are now part of the Sheriff’s Office SWAT but can the city PD’s  handle a SWAT call all alone?  They do not have the resources such as manpower to go 4, 8, 12 hours in a stand off or equipment.  You do have some great officers down there and you need to pay them more money for what they do.  Consolidation of communication centers around the state has been successful.  One day it will come, stand by and watch.  I am sure it will not be under your watch but hang on.

Callahan

P.S. Inmates are not released out the back door of the jail on Palmetto Ave, they are released out the front door on Orange Ave.  Get you facts correct.

Consolidation? Listen, I’m not as elegant with words as Mr. Kelter so I’m going to be as blunt as possible. Why in the world would Green Cove and Orange Park want to consolidate their police departments with the Sheriff’s office? The county can’t even handle calls in the county adequately and we’re going to give them more jurisdiction?  A local police force can serve a community better because the officers know the neighborhoods and the people who live there. The county rotates their officers all around the county. I’ll take an officer who has worked in the same jurisdiction, over a new guy every other month, any time! Plus, I have lived in the county and I don’t feel like waiting 25 minutes for an officer to come when I need one! I think the Sheriff owes Green Cove and Orange Park some money.