Georgias Drought

I have been reading all of the blogs and comments about development, hometown democracy, corrupt government officials, etc. and trying to figure out how and where to jump in.

This will probably sound a little messy, and blur a few blog lines, so I apologize in advance.

Though it just appeared in last week's TU, the idea that Florida is "over" has been kicking around for some time.  Too much of a good thing is turning Florida into a less than desirable place to move to, and therefore fewer people are headed this way.  Honestly, builder or not, to me that is a good thing.  There is a limited supply of land and water here, so the fewer there are trying to consume it, the longer it will last.

This situation is the result of many factors, but the fact that Florida's population grew from 9,747,000 in 1980 to around 18,000,000 in 2005 sort of sums it up.  State and local governments apparently were clueless as to how to deal with such unprecedented growth.  But then again, who would have known how to deal with it - at the time.  It was a case of hitting a moving target.  Too much commerce with too little government restraint, in my opinion, didn't help. But, as a Republican, I detest too much government intervention.  But, should the government have done more to protect "us" from this success? Hindsight is 20-20.

The United States allows for freedom of movement within its borders.  People can move anywhere they want.  I guess a lot of people like Florida.  Maybe too many.  Now what?

The solutions will be whatever they will be.  Hometown Democracy?  Government mandated population control?  State immigration laws?

Funny how a free market works.  Florida was a great place to move and raise a family - relatively low costs, good schools, average crime, great environment, etc - so people move here.  Those desirable factors change due to success - costs go up, environment is adversely affected, crime stats increase, schools are overcrowded - Florida becomes not as desirable, people quit flocking here in droves.  Problem solved?  Hardly.

There is a mess left behind, and the population will still increase, albeit more slowly.

I'm not going to pretend I have the answer to this problem.  Diverting water from the St. John's River to people in South Florida doesn't sit well with me.  Neither does telling me I can only have 2 kids because of a shortage of available resources.

I guess, as bad as I hate to say it, I'll have to keep in mind that there are a lot of other states in America where "success" has not become a problem - yet.  Like Georgia and the Carolinas.  From what I have read, these states are now experiencing the same sort of percentage increases in population that lead to the problems we have in the Florida.  Hopefully, their governments, and citizens, are planning ahead.  Something that did NOT happen here.

Below are links to some of the information about our water situation if you're interested.  There is a $500,000,000 (no, I didn't add too many zeros) proposed pipeline from the St. Johns River and/or Ocklawaha which feeds into the St. Johns. . I am currently researching up-to-date information as I heard recently that the SJRWMD (St. Johns River Water Management District) which is governed a board of nine political appointees, is taking another look at the situation.  Perhaps the Water Wars Summit in Ocala on 10/7, and other organizations joining in, has had an influence?  One can only hope that we are still being heard in some areas.

Ron Littlepage's in the FTU 7/24* is very informative, and there are more links to the water situation on www.clayactionnetwork.org.  Go to the CAN Action page and click on the Water - River Management Link.  If you have time, check out the video that was broadcast on local PBS (the link is at the bottom of the CAN Action page).  Very informative.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072407/opl_186425120.shtml *

http://stjohnsriverkeeper.blogspot.com/2007/09/central-floridas-thirst-threatens-river.html

http://www.stjohnsriverkeeper.org/newsletters.asp

I feel very strongly that CONSERVATION of our water supply is of the utmost importance and we need to start NOW.  There are many ways - one of which is to stop planting that needy St. Augustine grass.   Again, Ron Littlepage says it better than I can in his column of 9/7 - We Must Stop Pouring Drinking Water on Lawns. 

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/090707/opl_197685874.shtml

Hope some of this information is helpful.  I saw something recently about Sarasota county using much less water and am researching what they are doing. Obviously, it is not just Florida having a problem...but it is global, and it is crucial that we become better stewards of our environment.

I'll stop now.  Thanks for listening.

I've read most of the links on these posts, and it is scary what they are discussing doing to the river. Draining away nearly 300 million gallons a day will do irreparable damage. The salt water intrusion alone should be enough to make this a non-starter. Yet we still hear more and more about doing just that. There has got to be a better way.

As to the problem in Georgia, I can't believe that with only 90 days of water left that they still have to drain millions of gallons a day to feed a river so that some mussels can live. These mussels wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for the fact that they built a dam.

But then, having spent 23 years in California, nothing of that sort should surprise me any more. I don't want to see the environment destroyed or a species wiped out for no reason, but to some of the environmentalists you'd swear it was man's fault that the dinosaurs went extinct.

Finder

 One would think we might have learned something from California. Fl. is changing everyday and I see no end to the change, More money is made in real estate and growth related bussiness than any thing else,State officials were put on notice by the federal government back in the sixities that water would be a major problem in our future if we didn't control growth. Until people realize how critiacal our politics are not much is going to change. Money, as always, dertimes the outcome of most issues. You can't get elected today with out growth money, and that is what is going to have to change. Like Bax. I am for lees gov. and fee enterprise so where do we go from here. I think that controls are necessary and that means government. We are supposed to be represented in gov. by like minded people. I just can't find any to vote for. Why is that?

Some numbers are just too transparent to lie, aren't they Bax?  Populations are one of the things in nature that can't double in size in just 25 years without suffering some growing pains.

Reading about plans for the St. Johns River ought to be outlawed by the Geneva Convention as water torture.

Those of us nearer the mouth of the St. Johns will not be seeing the same river (or our local tributaries) if developers farther south start suckin' 300 million gallons a day.  And once it starts out at 300 million, does anyone think the number won't grow as fast as developers can develop?

The St. Johns is the greatest natural resource in Clay County.  We need to keep a close eye on those appointed to "protect" it for us.

Here's a link to the Folio in regards to the St Johns River Water Management District's plan to pump water from the St. Johns and other rivers.  This will only benefit developers and keep the flow of dollars into their pockets (and likely the politicians), but the flow of the river will be diminished drastically.  This is NOT a good thing.

Marion County at least has Commissioners who care and are fighting the "sucking" of their river.  Where are the good pols in NE Florida when we need them?  Please read this and pass the information along to everyone you know. 

www.folioweekly.com/documents/thissucks.pdf

Thank you for the link Sunflower, it was an eye opener along with the days first cup of coffee.

This is going to end up like every other situation that profits the "Big Boy Developers" if we don't get involved.  The article says it's already a "done deal" in spite of all of the superficial studies going on at the moment to determine whether or not draining not only the St Johns, but other rivers in the northern part of the state will have a negative impact.

Anyone who believes you can screw with the natural order of things as basic as our rivers and it will not have a negative impact is either an idiot or they're in someones back pocket.

Who is this "Council of 100"?  Who are the dumb*** that thinks "Big"businessmen should have anything to say about our natural resources?  It is akin to letting the fox help design the chicken house.

I wonder how many people who are considering a move to Central Florida realizes there is 5yrs left before their water supply is depleted and they end up in the same situation that Georgia is now in?

The combined total of what they intend to take from not only the St Johns but other rivers equates to "Draining the Ortega River every 5 days"

The article goes on to say that as the St Johns is drained the salt water will move further and further into areas that are now more fresh then salt.  Anyone with any measure of common sense doesn't need a "study" to know that this will be catastrophic to the eco system and the ripple effect of that is too vast to even wrap your brain around at the moment.

I think it's time for the River Keeper and the St Johns Water Management District to come under the microscope and anyone else who is pondering this.

According to the article "they" are looking to have this up and running by 2013.  I guess the results of the "study" have already been planned or they wouldn't have this all set up to go already. 

As much as current market conditions not only effect the value of my home but impact my being able to earn a living I can't help but think that the current situation is a chance for a change in direction and may be a blessing in disguise.  My thoughts about staying here for the rest of my life are now being reconsidered, the frightening concept of what appears to be happening will destroy the enviroment and effect quality of life and Florida will no longer be a desirable place to live.  

Sunflower;

Thanks for the link. I knew I had read another truly horrifying article about this somewhere other than the TU, but my 'old timers' kicked in and I couldn't remember where it was. This is one of the reasons I like to read Folio sometimes. I thing that Folio covered it much better.

So what happens when the saltwater intrusion is so bad that they are pumping brackish rather than fresh water out of the river? Will we then have to spend more money to desalinate it? This will be one of the worst environmental disasters in recent history if this is allowed to happen.

If this gets pushed through, we should all get together to see if we can set a new world record for simultaneous lynching of a bunch of scoundrels. 

Finder

Riverkeeper is fighting this and has been doing everything they can to protect our natural resources for many years.  The link below takes you to Riverkeeper and all they do.  Click on their newlsetter to get the real scoop and also browse the other links within their site.  It is very informative and we should all be joining with them to help protect our waterways, wetlands, etc. from the politicians and developers. 

http://www.stjohnsriverkeeper.org/

Here's another link to an article in the St. Petersburg Times which details the destruction of FL wetlands allowed by the Army Corp of Engineers.  The article is quite enlightening.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/02/21/State/Two_high_court_cases_.shtml

We moved here from the snow and cold in 1996 to Clay County, very similar in size and demographics to the rural NY county we grew up in.  In just a few years, this county has developed far more than the original plan submitted and approved - 160+ changes I believe have been approved apparently without consideration of roads, water, schools, carbon, environment.  Yesterday's TU only clarified what we've been saying about the commute that my husband is still enduring and I couldn't take any longer - Clay County is #1 in the state for the worst commute!  Aren't we proud to be #1?  What does that say about our planners/leaders?  The snow and cold sometimes don't seem so bad, although I didn't even like the snow when I was a kid.  Sadly, I guess we may need to give it some thought.  Everybody's gotta be someplace.

Thank you again Sunflower, I obviously overlooked some of the links in your earlier entry.  I'm proof positive that it pays to repeat things in here, you can always reach someone you hadn't before.

I took about a 15 minute tour of the Riverkeepers website, and I am considering joining.  My daughter Kelsie is about to turn 18 and she's pumped about registering to vote and looking to get involved and this would be a great issue to start.  We've already discussed the basic issue and our water supply and protection of the River and she was very passionate about it.   It's also something we can get involved in together.

One item I overlooked in reading the current newsletter is that sucking water out of the Rivers they already know is not a permanent solution and will fix things only till about 2030.  The cost in money and damage to the enviroment is not worth 25yrs of supported apathy.  To swallow the notion that nature can regenerate to come back from this damage is not worth the risk if it does not and it's nothing more then an empty sales pitch.

This will now be added to my own personal criteria in who and what I vote for based upon what their views are.  We don't need anyone getting elected who thinks this high interest and penalty propoganda is anywhere near the interest of sustaining life from both a human standpoint and our enviroment.

Marsha:  You and Kelsie would be an asset to any organization (I know, because I've been lurking on this website since the beginning).  I am delighted that you and your daughter are considering becoming involved with Riverkeeper and the fight to save our water and help our environment. 

There are a lot of good people out there fighting the good fight, and we need to reach the ones that aren't yet involved and get some different leaders - local, state and federal.  Leaders with common sense, logic and who can't be bought.

Thank you for caring.

There is a limit to the safe capacity of a building.  Too many people under the roof endangers the well being of all under the roof.

Floating vessels have a limit to the safe capacity of people.  Too many people on the boat endangers the well being of all on the boat.  The tragedy of capsizing ferry boats that are overloaded also come to mind.

Everything has limits, a second story deck or porch has a weight limit, an elevator has a limit.  A Hot Air Balloon can hold only so much air and only so many people before the integrity of the ballon is compromised and peoples lives are in danger. 

Put 10lbs of your item of choice in a 5lb bag and at some point you're going to have a problem.

In our society we easily recognize some limits but not others.  I may want to park in the lot but if there are no designated areas left I don't ignore the tow away zone and declare my right to go and park where I want to.  There is a limit to how many people our natural resources can support.  Too many people in the state are a danger to the well being of all people in the state.  That may not be a pretty statement and may be hard to swallow but it's a fact that I hope we don't have to learn the hard way. 

Marsha;

I read your reply with great interest. I would apply these same simple concepts to an issue that is way off the subject of the river, but in my opinion is as important.

Illegal immigrants! We just can't afford to support them any more.

Finder

Marsha,

VERY WELL PUT

I don't check in/blog very often but I must comment.  It is a super (not simple) way to explain the "capacity" issue.  Too many times people who are already here and most assuredly suffering from exploding growth sound like "shut the door/close the borders/lock the gate  so I can enjoy my little corner of paradise.  But the issue is really IS about capacity, safety and ultimately quality of life. 

The next question--how do we manage growth and free enterprise? 

At the moment our best hope is to get the Hometown Democracy Petition on the Ballot. It's not a cure all, but it's a start, and the best start available at the moment.  First we have to slow down or temporarily stop growth other then what is already in the pipeline until we figure out someway to handle the growth in a responsible way. It's not just a traffic issue, or a crowded school issue, it is now an issue of having the natural resources namely water to support the increase in population.

Hometown Democracy may not be the perfect solution, nor the only one, but it's the best and ONLY one we have at the moment.  Things have got to slow down enough to be able to get a handle on the damage that has already been done.

I said it last week and I will say it again.  You HAVE TO BELIEVE that all the answers up front are not necessary.  The goverment works in incriments and so should the people.  Lets get Hometown Democracy on the ballot and let the people vote on it's merit.  What is already in the hole we won't see the full effects of for perhaps the next ten years.  That is why it is important to act now to slow it down, or again, stop it on a temporary basis.