It's a Cultural Thing

White collar crimes costs this county and the taxpayers more than street crimes committed against the citizens ever could, and yet the punishments are not severe enough to offset the profits let alone discourage the behavior of these public officials.

So the vicious cycle continues, and the iniquitous systems is rife with corrupt politicians, and those who blantantly violate the laws, and the public's trust. If we can't get the powers to be to uphold the laws they were sworn to protect and defend then we should expose all these corrupt individuals, and hold them up for public scrutiny.  

Clay County has suffered from a lack of fair and balanced information. I say let the blogging begin and to all  smile you never know when you might be on camera.

Otherwise we should just let Commissioner "My Way" Rutledge read into the record a proclamation declaring Clay County a monarchy where positions are obtained through bloodlines or money lines.

Hear Hear

I thought I heard or read somewhere that the Sheriff was a white collar crimes investigator before he became the Sheriff. Is that true?

What happened to the 100 page report that was suppose to be done concerning the investigation in our county?

Why don't the citizens get to see a copy of the report or why don't they put it on the county web-site with the other report?

When or where did they say somebody else suppose to be charged?

Okay for one of my favorite Rodney Dangerfield:

"I get no respect. The way my luck is running, if I was a politician I would be honest". Rodney Dangerfield

Janie

The defense attorneys for Ms. Christy want the 100 page document to not be released. The information in the report would be damaging. The judge is to decide if the document will be released. I wouldn't hold my breath, Janie, on reading it, although I'm sure it would make for gooood reading.

The 100 page document is public records. At least 2 media outlets have requested that the document be released. Sorry to say Times-Union did not try to see that this was done. 

As to when someone else will also be charged, Janie, again don't hold your breath. The "Clay Way" is for justice to not prevail when it comes to elected officials being held accountable for misdeeds.

Janie, currently that report is actually not a public record, having been removed from public access by the judge in the Fitzgerald and Ivey cases.

The judge recited several reasons for withholding what should otherwise be a public record, chief among them that the report compiled by the Sheriff's inverstigator could prejudice the defendants' rights to a fair trial.  In making his ruling, the judge said he had read the report and it was full of hearsay, innuendo and rumors.

At the conclusion of the legal process, the report will again be open to public scrutiny and it should be some fun reading.  Sort of a time capsule of the government grapevine.

But more important than what's in the report is why, during the previous year-and-a-half or so when there had been no judicial ruling to keep it sealed, was it not provided to the media or any other citizen who requested it.

That someone in local government has set themselves up as the individual arbiter of what the public should or should not see or know, despite what the law says, helps this local corrupt political culture thrive.

Well said, One Mann.

Unless we become involved, this "culture of corruption" in Clay will continue.  

Thanks for the answers and the information. I find it hard to believe that they would take a case to court against anybody based off hearsay and rumors.

There is definitely a "culture of corruption" in this county that looks like the public officials encourages this behavior and makes no efforts to stop this from happening.

I guess I can understand Angela's reasons for wanting to expose these people if nobody else is going to do anything.

Corruption within government would not be a new phenomenon in any place what is of interest to me in this county is the people who have the powers to stop this don't. That to me seems to be the most serious offense a public officials can commit. Having knowledge of crimes or corruption and not reporting or responding to those crimes. That should be the responsiblities of the District Attorney.

For someone who sat through the Fitzgerald trial in St. Johns county and listened to the evidence presented by the SAO...one can only imagine what is in the 100 page report.  If the contents of the report are anything like the evidence that was presented during the trial...then EVERYONE in CLAY COUNTY should want that report sealed.....it...like the prosecution's case in the Fitzgerald trial..was ludracris, embarrising, and made Clay County look like a bunch of bumbling idiots. 

For those of you that claim Fitzgerald got off because of the good ol boy network...you now have to include St. Johns county...as they must have been brought into the good ol' boy network.  The most obvious statement is that IF Fitzgerald was part of the good ol boy network, then SHE WOULD NOT HAVE FACED CRIMINAL CHARGES...like the rest of the good ol' boy network, she would have been able to ride away into the sunset and retire.

Ask yourself this question...if Fitzgerald's defense team wants the report sealed, if Mr. Ivey's defense team wants the report sealed AND THE STATE ATTORNEY OFFICE wants the report sealed...why do both sides of the case want the report sealed?  BECAUSE IT WILL BE A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT TO THE RESIDENTS OF CLAY COUNTY IF THEY CAN SEE WHAT THE POWERS TO BE AND THE STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAVE BEEN UP TO.

Susie Armstrong, freelance writer, was seen passing notes to the State Attorney during the closing arguments of the Fitzgerald trial.  WHY WOULD an Assistant State Attorney engage in such a juvenile activity with a questionable reporter?

A report that makes Clay County look like bumbling idiots would hardly be rare.  Reminds me of my first job, years and years ago, when I was a reporter in a small town.  I wrote something and got a phone call from the mayor.

"You're making me look like an ass," he said.

"No, sir, Mr. Mayor," I responded.  "You're doing that and I'm just reporting it."

I don't see how anyone could support the permanent sealing of a public record because it is embarrassing.  If we let government hide information about anything that might cause someone to blush, we'll have clerks misplacing millions, sheriffs charging panties on the public tab, and, well, the kind of stuff covered in the infamous 100-page report.

Again, the content of the report pales in importance when compared to the actions of various public employees to withhold in apparent violation of the law.

Anyone who thinks politics in Clay County is still run by a handful of Good Ol' Boys hasn't watched the county grow.

Why not just assume the report is exactly what the judge said, potentially prejudicial to jury selection and skip the conspiracy theories.  Besides, embarrassing or not, it will once again be public record when all the charges are settled.

What's so insidious about a reporter passing a State's Attorney a note during a trial?  It could have been about anything.  Have you actually asked the reporter what it concerned?

Wow those are strong words.

There is no doubt there have been issues that have abounded in our county and more recently the county to the north.

But somewhere deep down I have to believe that many including those in our own county who hold public office seek to do so at no benefit to themselves, but rather in an attempt to make a positive difference in the community.

2008 will hopefully continue that trend. By that time pretty much every commissioner who was seated during the previous administrations will have rolled out of office and our new County Manager seems to be doing an incredible job.

I see a very bright future for our county and our region.

ejaffe,

ditto.  Can't be put any clearer.  The past couple of years have been rough on Clay County, though Jacksonville City Council seems to be pulling ahead in the "dumb legislative body" department.  Election 2008 will see elections for Dist. 1 and Dist. 3, which will be a clean slate for the BCC.  Looking forward, not back.

Election 2008 will see elections of District 1 and 3 (single-member districts) as well as a two-year at-large seat and the four-year "Chairman" seat.

To top that, we'll be electing two School Board seats as well as ALL of the Constitutional Officers: Sheriff, Clerk of the Court, Appraiser, Superintendent of Schools, and Tax Collector.

Two have filed against the Sheriff.

One has filed against the Superintendent of Schools.

One has filed against Carol Studdard of the School Board.

One has filed for District 3.

One has filed for District 1.

Get your play cards out. We're in for a bumpy ride.

The culture of corruption is still alive and well in Clay County and those who flagrantly violate the laws of the State of Florida. Regardless if it is a violation of public records laws, misuse of a public office, violations of open meetings laws, or illegal dumping. They are all violations of the LAWS. 

I think what we have had in Clay County is called Denial 101.

I have always heard "Character is what you stand for, but your reputation will be what you fall for".

I believe that until recently the majority of people in Clay County were in denial and fell for a lot of things. Now it appears to be just a select few.

On that note, "I see a very bright future for our county and our region". I am too, "Looking forward, not back. I will also agree, "We're in for a bumpy ride".

Because some of us are sick and tired of being sick and tired of corruption. That attitude by Ms. Rosa Parks changed an entire culture in America. I think it will work just fine in Clay County because I am not in denial. 

I dislike it when political conversions deteriorate into discussions where people launch personal attacks, and I personally believe that people - with very few exceptions - enter public life with the admirable intention to serve in the best interests of their constituents.  And when I reference the culture of corruption in local government cited in official documents, it's not to imply that government is full of criminals.

Clay County's government, though, has a long history of being concerned with writing rules to govern us while exhibiting far less effort with following rules itself.  The causes and effects are numerous, installed over political generations, hence the use of the word "culture."

A fair example was my first meeting with a newly-elected County Commissioner, who eargerly volunteered in the first few minutes of our conversation that "They let you know right away that if you want to get anything done, you have to go along."  That's the first step of the corruption process - forcing good people with good ideas to choose how to balance their good goals with going along with the status quo.

It will take more than newly-elected faces to change the culture of local government.  It will take newly-elected voices to stand tall and say they won't "go along" just because that's the way it's always been done here.

It pays to remember the lessons of the past while looking ahead to the future.

Just my observations indicate that either the newly elected people will stand up and voice those sentiments of a new culture by words and deeds, or you will need to do like Angela says and expose the people who continue to taint the system and cultivate this culture.

Rosa Parks what a good choice. I have read her book and she said people think I was tired but that's not true. I was not tired physically. No, the only tired I was, was tired of giving in.

With so many elected positions opening this election cycle it makes for an excellent opportunity for some serious changes in the county. I thought Commissioner Rutledge's term runs out in 08 too.

I am glad the amendment to limit the salaries of the Commissioners and the tax payers decide if they get a salary increase got placed on the ballot. The 60% majority is already the State requirement which makes perfect sense that it would be a county standard as well. A good test of the new board that is already in place would have been to adopt the amendments without having to place them on the ballot. When that happens you will know you have the newly elected officials that really want to lead the county in a new direction for the benefit of the people.

But those are just my observations.

Janie, the BCC can initiate its own reform however, a citizen's initiative must be decided upon by the electorate. The BCC is a pass-through on its way to voters.

Thanks for the information. One of my neighbors showed me where to get the Home Rule Charter off the county web-site. I guess that would give it away that I am not from here but a transplant.

She also told me we have a State Attorney not a District Attorney.

She told me the Sheriff was a white collar crimes investigator for the State Attorney before he was the Sheriff.

She asked why was I asking all the questions and I told her about the myclaysun website and the stuff I have been reading. She reads it too. Now we have lots of things to talk about.

Janie

I am also glad there will be an amendment on the Nov. 2008 ballot limiting the commissioners' salary to $38,000. This means there will be no increase until WE THE PEOPLE decide to change the figure. After some investigation, I found that their present  total package is an astounding figure. I found a chart on this website www.claycitizens.com. that will give you a breakdown of the salary package.

I advise you to be sitting down when you read the chart provided. At present, the commissioners' total salary and benefits package is over $87,000! What a SWEET deal.

I have contact this group and have added my name to their email list. I hope you and your neighbor will do the same. 

Now let me get this straight – we are going to only pay $38,000 per year for the Commissioner’s salaries, and we expect that we are going to get some good, upstanding, intelligent citizens to subject themselves to the whipping post known as public office, and we think that this will yield good results?  Who do you think is going to quit their jobs to take a job like this?  I know that it is listed as a part-time job, but it should be a full-time job, at least for a good commissioner.  I want someone in there that is going to work at this job full-time, not part-time, and I believe that this salary action locks us into the part-time setup.More specifically, who do you think the candidate list will consist of?  It will likely be people of independent wealth that can afford to take the time off to do the job of the Commissioner.  I want someone that takes the time to understand issues – not to take the Reader’s Digest version and make a decision based on that or to make a decision based on a few upset citizens (Everyone is not going to be happy all of the time).Alternatively, it could produce candidates that are simply looking to take power for power’s sake, which can be payment in and of itself to some people.  That prospect does not appeal to me, either.I believe that I understand what the intent of this movement is, and I sympathize with it.  I just do not believe that this action achieves the stated goal of keeping government of the people, by the people, for the people.  It looks like it rules out more people than it includes - and that is not good.

Chabin

You are not describing the job of a commissioner. You are describing the job of the County Manager who carries out the policies of the commissioners. The County  Manager is a full time job and  we have a good one worthy of a good salary. 

Not many people in Clay County would agree that the commissioners elected in our life time have been worthy of the high salary package they receive. There is a remedy to this...

As a Charter County, Clay citizens can set the salary at whatever they wish through the amendment process. If the citizens vote on the amendment that sets the salary at $37,000, that amount may be raised or lowered by future amendments. If adopted,  there will not be an automatic yearly salary raise.

The office of Commissioner or School Board member is meant to be a public service job. No one should seek this office with anything else in mind. 

Mr Bowles told a reporter he eed half a million dollars. Are we renting these buildings?

It is a very part time job. The thing is in clay county there are lots of good military, college grads, teachers and retirees that I would certainly trust with my children and my county seats. Many, many would love a shot at "listening to the people, by the people and for the people and reasonably propose some real balance based on our county budget.

We must grow up and be accountable to our budget. We need to put our extra money away for the future of our elderly, children and businesses, be it growth or natural or terrorist disaster. We do not need to spend money just to say we spend more money. I believe in the majority of our citizens and there ability speak out and say who, what, where and why. I believe the proposed salaries are a fair days pay for a fair days work. Possibly someone who believes it is enough money will be protecting our tax dollars and letting them grow for rainy days so we don't have to Rob Peter to Pay Paul in the future...by the way we are Peter.

I have to agree that an elected board member's sole responsibility is to make policy.  The various county manager, and other department heads are charged with the everyday operations of the county.  Mind you, a commissioner's job is to make sure these managers are doing their job.   We have been paying our commissioners MUCH more than they are actually worth.  Especially the crew that was captain of the watch when all the "pit" problems occurred.  If you pay a commissioner that much money, you invite the friends of people in high places to make sure a buddy gets the seat.  If you keep the salary low, only people with real public service in mind will apply.  Commission meetings should never last more than one hour, except if a major issue, or the expenditure of millions of dollars is involved.  If a commissioner has to go full time, it means it's time for a new county manager.  All our politicians showboat because they are on TV, even if the sound is missing or unintelligible.  Meetings shouldn't be telecast, if you are truly interested, you should be in the audience.  By the way, if I am correct, the taxpayers not only pay for the commissioners health insurance, but their families health insurance as well.  If someone knows this isn't correct, please put it in a blog.

I did see three county vehicles from the Road and Bridge Department at work today.  One truck was parked in the shade on CR220 and the guys were just sitting there, motor running with the A/C on.  The other truck had 3 guys all standing around, with one of the men leaning on a shovel.  No work there either.  The third truck was just parked at the intersection of College and Blanding.  Three vehicles and 6 men later, I didn't see any work actually being accomplished. 

In many areas of our nation, school board members and county commissioners serve free gratis.  Many serve for a ceremonial $1 per year, a far cry from local politicians. 

The proposals by the CRC in my opinion were a step in the wrong direction. The voters have passed those amendments and we will have those until someone (citizens, commissioners, or crc) changes them. I will explain before some of you go haywire with that statement.

Your elected Commissioners are almost impotent. The County Manager is he who holds the money and the power. He is not required by law to hold any of these discussions or meetings in the sunshine. We are not given by law any rights to sit in on these meetings or even know what he talked about with people in the community or with your Commissioners one on one. He has the right to decide all budget and money matters. All he has to do is convince presently 3 Commissioners and it's a done deal. After the elections of 2 additional Commissioners he will have to convince 4 Commissioners and it's a done deal. Is the County Manager obligated to speak to you or me? No! If you don't like his decisions can you vote him out of office? No! I guess this make Commissioners salaries a little moot at this point.

This is why the meeting our County Manager is having with large land owners who decides our future accompanied by Commissioner "My Way" Rutledge and a few of his select friends is so important.

The only thing your Commissioner does is pass ordinances that regulate our lives by laws. They pass resolutions. They issue proclamations. They said yes to the County Manager. They approve the budget submitted by the County Manager. They hold Board Meetings that have now be reduced to about 2 hours 2 times a month. The County Manager by his choice of staff make all the decisions for all of us. I guess those salaries and the 2 at large Commissioners with the added expenses of those are getting smaller in importance every minute. Did you really think we need 7 of these people? Well I will say this they have excellent benefit packages and some hefty salaries no matter if it is the present almost 90,000.00 per year and still hefty at 37,000.00 with benefits per year.

I think the meeting being put on tv is a very important. All of the citizens can't attend the meetings because of jobs as most of us work outside the county and for other reasons. However with today's technology it makes prudent sense to put this out for the public to see via tv and internet. The newspapers have been a disservice to the citizens because of lack of fair and balanced reporting and I will avoid that subject. Now if you really want to know what goes on behind the close doors concerning your budget and other issues you can spend your time going over the books as a public records request or you can pay for public records to find out what is going on in there. Otherwise, we will just have to hope this is a good County Manager your elected Commissioner have chosen for you. Because you didn't even get any say in who they picked. You have no say in his salary. You have no choice in his decisions of who he wants for his staff. Makes you feel important doesn't it?

Now we will grade the County Manager he decides we should stop interlocal good ol boys agreements. This was a great idea. Yet with the whinning of 2 of the smaller  municipalities he reneged on that decision. This was with the blessings of our wonderful elected Commissioners who praised him for it. Now Green Cove Springs wants a half of a million dollars. Well the other 2 get money why not them? Any day Orange Park will hear about this and they will show up. They could always take the county to court and sue based off unfair practices. You as a citizens can grade your County Manager and your elected officials off what proves to be an interesting unfolding of Clay County's new politics. When the County Manager made the decision to discontinue interlocal agreements he should have stood his ground and refused the favortism of a few. Wonder if he does the same with all his other behind the scenes budget discussions.

I am proud to say I voted NO on all 3 amendments by the CRC.

Commission meetings should never last more than one hour, except if a major issue, or the expenditure of millions of dollars is involved.  If a commissioner has to go full time, it means it's time for a new county manager.

I have observed commission meetings getting shorter, rather than longer. This is especially evident as I watch the votes cast in the usually 5-0 manner. Even the new commissioners that have recently come on board vote unanimously time after time on the majority of issues coming before them. 

So, no, I am not one that thinks a shorter meeting means more efficiency. 

If Commissioner Rutledge has his way, meetings could become shorter. He recently suggested that certain planning and zoning items be placed on the "rubber stamp" consent agenda. 

Earlier in 2007, public comment time was also threatened by Rutledge because he wanted to do away with it and move it out of the Sunshine and put it before the meeting began (away from tv cameras) and at a time when there was no guarantee that  any commissioner other than he would be there. He eventually backed down because of pressure from the CTLAC, the First Amedment Foundation, and T-U editorials.

"The people who rob Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw.

You'd think Shaw was talking about Clay County government, wouldn't you?  In our specific case, Paul is the Growth Industry, which controls local poliics and continually supply us Peters with candidates who do the robbing.

If all Clay County voters have to choose from next election are more cookie-cutter candidates who already meet the approval of the local Pauls, people shouldn't expect much change in government, or a slowdown in the rate of growth.

Last election, voters had an opportunity to add new ideas and perspectives to the County Commission.  Instead, at a time when Growth Management is far and away the most critical issue in Clay County, voters elect a real estate agent - someone whose primary income is derived from continued and quick growth - whose major campaign advertising centered around his support for family values.  This next election, people need to do a better job of asking specific questions about Growth Management philosophy and requiring answers of substance from the candidates.

Commissioner "My Way" Rutledge recently when approached by a citizen concerning changing the speed limit from 25 to 35 directed the citizens to go through the County Manager. The citizen did as requested and jumped through all the hoops. The citizen had the county do a study of the area. The county came back with the recommendation that according to their study an increase in the speed limit to 35 was needed and approved.

When this item came before the board some citizens spoke and one expressed his concerns of constant speed traps in the area. He cited that over 80 people in his neighborhood had been ticketed by the speed trap and citizens had become so upset they were posting signs in the area and holding up signs to alert drivers. He stated that the slope of the road meant you had to drive with your foot on the brake in order to not exceed the speed limit.

Commissioner Rutledge denied the request and told the citizen he was in favor of this until he spoke before the board. Commissioner Rutledge expressed his opinion that is sometimes better not to speak. This is consistent with his not wanting to hear from the public when he attempted to place public comment before the board meeting. The excuse that people are getting tickets was completely unwarranted if this area is being used as a easy revenue generating speed trap by the Sheriff's Office. What do we have in Clay County, Waldo?

BIG RED FLAGS ARE GOING OFF EVERYWHERE WITH COMMISSIONER RUTLEDGE.

I was appalled that he would direct the citizen who had used county time and county employees to do all these studies make a recommendation concerning the speed limit and then not approve it based off the citizens comments. That was a complete waste of county resources.

Let me say this, the less that is on the record, the less you as the citizen can find out or know. The less you can object too. The more My Way can have his way.

District 5 you need to pay close attention because elections are coming up soon. If Commissioner Rutledge wants to run for an at large position all districts need to pay very close attention to the upcoming elections. We will have some very serious choices to make concerning the direction we want our county to proceed.

The point of a short meeting is that if the board members have done their homework, most issues are just "rubber stamp items."  Now where the fun comes in is how they do their homework.  If a board member calls the appropriate supervisor, consultant, or whomever, determined by the subject of the item, HOORAY! If a board member calls or speaks to another board member about an issue that is subject to a vote, that's a SUNSHINE LAW violation, BOO!  To be completely above reproach, board members should never have even social contact outside the boardroom.  A tough stance, yes.  Will most board members do that, no way.  Nassau county elected officials were famous for their luncheons at a popular restaurant, in which no agenda items were discussed.  At least a couple of them stopped attending the luncheons when newspapers reported these strictly social gatherings of good old buddies.  

The whole point being, when an item is voted on and it's a unanimous vote, one of two things happened.  First, they really supported the motion individually, or secondly, they had talked to each other, (violating the sunshine law), and worked out differences and arrived at a consensus vote.  Having lengthy discussions on a motion is for show only.  It's for the crowd in the audience.  Statistics that 95% of all board members never change their mind because of audience participation.  Sad, but true.  I don't recall many motions to rescind previous action unless the attorney points out a statutory issue, or there was a problem in the wording of a motion.  If you want to influence your elected board members, get to them before the meeting starts.  Make your position known loud and clear.  Ask them why they support/don't support the issue, put them on the spot.   They do remember these conversations.  Once they are in the boardroom, it's a done deal.

As far as lengthy meetings go, when does congress put in their pork barrel issues?  They are usually tacked onto a major bill that needs to be passed, usually a funding bill.  Many boards simply try and wear out the audience before they offer motions on controversial issues.  Wait them out, hold off until 1am, pass the motion.  Take the issue of mandatory garbage collection.  It was a done deal from the start.  No amount of public input bore sway in that meeting.  Being televised doesn't hold sway either.     

The Florida laws does not mandate an agenda. This is done in an effort to inform the citizens but it is a benefit to the Commissioner to organize the meeting and have an agenda to follow. Thus once it is made it becomes a public record. However, the BCC can discuss and vote on any item even if it is not on the agenda.

Having the meeting televised can give the citizens the opportunity to see what was discussed at the meeting because the minutes are not required by law to be verbatim. So, you can see what discussion transpired and what if any items that were not on the agenda were discussed.

In a perfect world we could all take off from work and attend all the meetings. Especially if we could get a part time job with the commissioners salary and benefits packages they get. Since most of us can't the best option we have is to watch these meeting by television.

The show boating of a bunch of Commissioners what else is new. We have all learned to look pass that little acting job. That would happen with or without television.

You know the joke how do you know when a politician is lying his lips are moving.

I am not surprised that so many writers feel as I do. It doesn't seem to matter who we are given as choices to vote for, they all come from the same defective DNA pile. Again, what is the point of voting? Until we get a promise that all candidates for any office will submit to intense questioning under sodium pentathol, why bother? I think the Soviets had a good idea with the gulags. Wouldn't it warm your hearts to see the Clay County Commission take up residency on one? I see no point in voting as whoever gets in will be as slimy as what we have already. It's  a group exactly like La Cosa Nostra but without the warmth.

Lily's Lore

"No matter how tragic the loss
No matter how heavy the cost
To this very day
I can stand tall & say
I fought for paradise
And Paradise lost"  Jim Steinman

Lilysore, Angela, Pioneer, OneMann and Islander:

My momma always said, if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.

The whole lot of you only focus on the negative aspects of local politics. I dare say, none of you could get yourself elected which is why you use this blog to voice your negativity. You see, if you wanted to get yourself elected, you wouldn't be talking in terms of "what you've exposed" in county politics. You'd be campaigning to electors about what you could do to change the culture - of what you've described as - a culture of status quo.

I want you to call 25 of your friends, neighbors, churchmembers or others everyday for the next 10 days and ask them for $500 to forward your message of discontent about county government. Let's see how far you get. Do they respond negatively? Positively? Not at all? How much money did you collect after 10 days toward your campaign to rectify your "perceived" inadequacies in county government? You should have raised $125,000 for your efforts. An adequate sum to run for elected office.

You don't have $125k in your campaign coffers?

Those who can't play, coach.

"Perceived" inadequacies, you've got to be kidding, or you must have just moved to Clay county.  Their inadequacies are well documented.   By the way, I have never "exposed" any of the commissioners.  I have played the game, so I am not a sideline quarterback.  What I write about politics is from my own personal experiences of being elected to and serving as a member of several governmental boards.  The only people who contribute to a political campaign are those who seek to gain the favor of the candidate should they be elected.

Here's a concept for you, Key. How about the defectives running for office and those already who have snuck in, stop being crooked, inept or just plain venal? Then there wouldn't be any "negativity". Calling a spade a spade is not "negative".

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Key2life just some thoughts:

"Truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but, in the end, there it is". Sir Winston Churchill

"Truth indeed rather alleviates than hurts, and will always bear up against falsehood, as oil does above water". Miguel de Cervantes

On that note:

"You don't have $125k in your campaign coffers"?

True, I have no plans to sell my soul to the devil either, or sell my soul to obtain an office in Clay County so I can be someone elses puppet.

"Those who can't play, coach".

Where would we be with all players and no coaches? Where would we be with all coaches and no players?

Clay County?

It's time for a positive change in the right direction for Clay County and I think the truth is the best place to start.

As Ms Lily says, Calling a spade a spade is not "negative".

Any thoughts, statements, or information that I have provided on the blogs is presented with the attempt to help the citizens make an assessment for themselves, for only through knowledge and participation can we the citizens decide if we get the government we are paying for, and that best reflects our desires for Clay County's future. 

Discussing the mistakes of the past and attempting to apply the lessons learned to the present or future isn't negativity.  Suggesting alternatives to current situations or future plans isn't negativity.  Seeking - encouraging - change is not negativity.  It's the American Way.  Those who can't play, coach?  C'mon, Key2life.  In the good ol' US of A, we all get to play the game of politics and we all get to coach, too.

Anyone with enough confidence to adopt a screen name that indicates they have the answer to a question that has puzzled philosophers for centuries should know that.

Discussions about government needn't be confined to candidates during elections.  Not should they be restricted to complimenting those in power.  Nothing ever changes that way.

And, Key2life, I'm sorry you stayed up so late on a Saturday night with your desire to have some of us bloggers begin your 10-day fundraising test.  Instead of wasting your time, you could have read a good book, watched the news on TV, spent some quality time with your spouse, or just come up with an intelligent idead about something - anything.

Instead, you suggest calling our friends, neighbors, etc., in search of $500 campaign donations - inadvertantly pointing out one of the major causes of the culture of corruption cited by two official government documents.  Take a look at the Supervisor of Elections website and you'll see that the $500 donations don't come from friends.  They come from businesses and business people, the same ol' list of names putting the same ol' type of candidates on the ballot.

Raising money $500 at a pop isn't the key to my life.

Lily I certainly understand the belief that there are no decent candidates out there to vote for, but in theory does it not make sense that this is one of the reasons why individuals who lack integrity for public service get elected, voter apathy?

I certainly don't have the answers to fix the corruption in politics but I still fear without you and people like you voting, even if you are having to choose the lesser of the evils it will only get worse.

For whatever is wrong with the county goverment it didn't get that way overnight and it will not change overnight.

The problem with the "nothing will ever change so I am not going to participate anymore" is a mindset that allows what is wrong to continue. 

Short of someone here deciding to run for an office I think the best thing that can be done collectively and individually is to try and get others to care and get involved, at least to the level of paying attention and voting. 

Here in MCS you have become a champion of many good things, you are obviously very intelligent and articulate. You never know, there could be someone reading these blogs who decide to follow your lead and just not vote at all anymore.  Will that really get us anywhere?

The world has gotten so busy and there are so many just trying to keep up with it all that they have lost their sense of civic duty.  That is another problem I don't have the answer to....how to turn that around. 

If the good guys don't hang in there then the bad guys have already won, and I can't accept that.  I always vote, do the best I can to make an informed choice, and even if it's the lesser of evils I still vote.  If the public gets to the point where citizens just don't vote anymore period then democracy suffers.

Don't give up, don't give in.  It's not a perfect system and it will never be but we must continue to try, the alternative is too frightening to consider.

Marsha, I would like to thank you for your comment on voting. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Just wish I had the time to write. I would like to participate more in these blogs, but my life has gotten so busy lately. I always find time to read them; just not enough time to respond the way I would like to. “God grant me the serenity to except the things I can not change. The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference” Powerful words! If you don’t vote you have given up your write to bitch. “It takes an unsatisfied person to make things satisfactory”. By: winn1955

Key2Life gave me quite a few things to think about. So, I turn to research. As Angela is always saying, check out the public records. Case in point, one of our commissioners reports of contributions. Key, only a bit over $2100 came from friends/supporters of one of our elected commissioners. So, if only a bit over 2K out of 60K came from supporters, it is logical that detractors would donate zero. The candidate personally contributed 18K to their own campaign. Now lets get to the really neat part. Developers, Realtors, Surveyors, Attorneys, etc, contributed 15K to the campaign fund. The remainder came from businesses, and presidents of businesses of the county. Now where do you think the loyalty of this individual stands? They had better maintain the status quo if they need campaign funds to get re-elected. Its amazing how the report takes on clarity when you download the financial reports to Excel and sort according to address. Several $500 contributions from the same PO Box but with a different company name. Now if you sort again, by the occupation/business of the contributions, you see the data in a different, yet similar way. Racetracks, PAC's, waste haulers and large landowners, all were represented. Bottom line, if politicians depended on friends and their own personal wealth, not many would get elected. They have to ally themselves with special interest groups to get elected.

If you don't have the money to campaign, you can't get elected, no matter how great of a candidate you may be. Therein lies the rub.  "for thirty pieces of silver......"

Just when Key2life suggested that the information that has been posted was negative. I see all of the information and responses as positive. A positive move it the right direction because we have to start somewhere.

To combat people who encourage this "culture of corruption" means we need to arm ourself with knowledge.

And yes Ms. lily we need to vote. "Girlfriend" your post are the highlight of some of my days. I have laughed so loud at some of your post that my family has come to check on me. I guess they thought I was looking at some porn site and they needed to see it too. 

I will make this statement again:

Any thoughts, statements, or information that I have provided on the blogs is presented with the attempt to help the citizens make an assessment for themselves, for only through knowledge and participation can we the citizens decide if we get the government we are paying for, and that best reflects our desires for Clay County's future. 

If the powers that be are not going to do their job then we must research, learn, converse, and expose those who attempt to subvert the will of the people and feed this culture of corruption in Clay County.

The alternative that Marsha so eloquently speaks about will be as my earlier post:

Otherwise we should just let Commissioner "My Way" Rutledge read into the record a proclamation declaring Clay County a monarchy where positions are obtained through bloodlines or money lines.

I think Winn1955 could agree the best way to combat a fire is to cut off its source of oxygen.

Islander great job on the info you provided. I would like to change the attitude that without money people can't get elected. I would trade knowledge for money anyday. Because if you lost all your money today if you had knowledge on how to get that money you can pick yourself up, dust off your pants, and go do it again. I would always pick knowledge.

OneMann-Discussing the mistakes of the past and attempting to apply the lessons learned to the present or future isn't negativity.  Suggesting alternatives to current situations or future plans isn't negativity.  Seeking - encouraging - change is not negativity.

OneMann you must have the record for starting what turns out to be the longest and the best blogs on myclaysun. 

Marsha don't let the county take over the Ravines you will need to fight that too. Just providing information ahead of the curve.

Bloggers,

Thanks for all of your responses. It's awesome to read such diverse, strong opinions in Clay County.

I was so depressed after reading this blog from top to bottom that I had to tell you guys that. And Angela says, it's positive. What a concept. If I didn't know better, I'd say run like H--L from Clay County. Get out as fast as you can.

So it's interesting that she thinks sharing her public records requests constitutes education. You see, my concern is that while all of us have lamented over the LACK of fair and unbiased reporting here in Clay County, that some of us on these blogs only  present what we want others to see. Never the whole picture, just what supports our position. That's biased reporting.

In a nutshell, no, it's not OK for the County Manager and staff to have chi-chi lunches with developers. Did Angela go to the County Manager and ask why he did that? No. So we have an incomplete picture of the situation. And it unfavorably represents Clay County. We have a right to all of the information not just what individuals present on this blog.

Case in point: Citizens for Term Limits and Accountability are trying to convince you to limit commissioner salaries. NO ONE on this blog (ESPECIALLY CTLAC) has even mentioned that salaries have already been reduced by the voters in November 2006. It has become SO very important to CTLAC for everything to be THEIR idea. If it's not, it's not on the radar. If their membership were truly interested in honest debate, they would have given credit and acknowledged the efforts of the CRC and refused to squabble over $5k per commissioner per year. This constitutional referendum is a WASTE OF TIME. CTLAC wants to take credit where credit is not due.

Let's put it into perspective: You've worked for your private company for 4 years. The Board of Directors (the Clay County Electorate) passes a resolution to freeze your salary for the next umpteen years (until the Board is more friendly to employees). Do you want to stay there and work for this Board of Directors? No cost of living increase? No recognition for the expansion and direction of the corporation (population growth)?

You put a "ceiling" on my future earnings and I'm not coming back. If you were honest with yourself, neither would you.

Why would we hold public officials to a different standard when we, you and me, would NOT put up with it in a corporate environment?

Again, let's ask the question: Does CTLAC want to take credit for something they really have NO right to commandeer?

I say, "YES."

Key to life,

I for one have the whole picture. The whole picture looks to me that you are suspicious of any citizens that have the audacity to not genuflect before the CRC and the commissioners. Your disdain for the CTLAC has long been apparent. 

You dare to call One Mann, Islander, Angela, Lily'sLore negative? 

Your replies to many blogs since MCS conceived of setting up this method of communication have been quite negative. So "negative" that the general manager of MCS brought certain disrespectful remarks to your attention and the attention of readers in early May.

Your tango with the CRC and certain commissioners leaves little doubt of where your loyalties lie.

Congratulations, CTLAC, and thank you for all your efforts. From the looks of your petition drive, it looks like there are many citizens in Clay that appreciate all you and your government watchdog group do. It's time that I, for one, step up to the plate and help you. You probably don't read these blogs: You're out there keeping busy doing what you do best.

I have added my name to your email list, as I am sure others are also doing and look forward to helping in your future efforts. 

Angela, I too voted NO on all 3 charter amendments in Nov. 2006.  Negative? No. Informed voter, yes.   

 Positive? Yes. I am positive that staying involved and informed, I can make a difference in this wonderful county I call my home.

I know this is not exactly on subject for this thread but could or would you please elaborate on your statement about the county taking over the Ravines?

You know key2life if we lived in perfect we would have nothing to talk about, no issues to debate and discuss, and we certainly wouldn't need any change in Clay County.

Since we all know thats not true. I would call this blog a heathly exchange of ideas of concerned citizens. Your ideas are on this blog for us to read as well. Information is presented with the attempt to help the citizens make an assessment for themselves.

Any person who reads or post on this blog can call the County Manager and asked him why he was at the informal dinner or what transpired at the early morning visit at the same land owners office. Maybe you could call, and asked those questions. Then you can report on the blog and we can decide. That is just about as fair and balanced as you can get.

Your statement: "If I didn't know better, I'd say run like H--L from Clay County. Get out as fast as you can".

We do that now it is called Blanding or Hwy 17 our commute to work in Jacksonville each morning. It reverses in the afternoon commute. I am very familiar with this run like h-ll routine.

Apparently you have some type disdain for the CTLAC and that is your prerogative and you have expressed your opinion many times. All of us do not share that same opinion and thats what makes this a healthy debate. When you say, "This constitutional referendum is a WASTE OF TIME". You have that right to have that opinion and express it on the blog as you have done.

However, they did collect the necessary signatures to have that placed on the ballot. I will respect the amount of hard for them to go out and individually collect that amount of signatures in that short period of time. When the Charter was adopted someone must of felt it was a good idea to let Citizens, Commissioners, and the CRC propose amendments for change. That equates to 5 Commissioners can decide, or a majority of 15 CRC members can decide, or citizens who need almost 6,000 signatures to place it on the ballot. You can do the math that is a lot of hard work.

First let me say private business is not public service and it should not be viewed as such. Private businesses do not give employees automatic yearly cost of living increases based off the more employees we have the bigger the increases. Those are only for government jobs and government officials came up with that idea. Need I say more. Employers give yearly evaluations and if warranted gives raises, if not, you don't get a raise. You can stay at that place of employment or you can leave. Maybe you should have a citizens intitative that we yearly evaluate our Commissioners and if they have not illegally dumped any material,or violated any other laws we can give them a cost of living raise. I think letting the people decide if they are getting the government they are paying for is an excellent idea. I think that after the 4 year evaluation and the people decide that the government has been good stewarts of their money and quality of life issues then they will vote for them a raise. That is just like private business if you perform, you are rewarded, if not, you are not rewarded.

I hear Commissioner Bush on a constant basis belittle the State Legislators for all the decisions they make but oddly I have never heard him complaint that those thieves in Tallahasse now want to give the Commissioners automatic cost of living raises.

I will be voting yes on both of the amendments that the CTLAC has worked to place on the ballot in 2008.

On that note, Congratulations, CTLAC.

Do you know the guy that has been posting about the Ravines? He signs on as ELGuappo. He must know or have heard rumors about this idea too. I read his post the other day in Golfing Blues.

"Don't ever, ever, ever, EVER sell it to the county. The level of vision at the county government is staggeringly underwhelming. A local told me, quoting an old line, " they were born stupid and have been losing ground ever since!" :-)

I have heard about this little venture too. I think someone had presented an idea to  Commissioner "My Way" Rutledge about the county aquiring the property to use as a county park. I think they want to use it as sports fields for different type events. I am not sure about all of the details but it is worth investigating.

Just wanted to give you a heads up and make sure you knew about it. Maybe you can get ELGuappo to respond to a posting in Golfing Blues. He didn't just come up with that statement out of the blue. He may have more information to offer.

I researched for the last day, the election of any politician who did not have the support of big business, or special interest groups.  What I found was disheartening.  None of the search engines could find a politician on any level that didn't have the support of potential lobbying groups.  In other words, when an elected offical is sworn in, he owes his election to a group of people who want something of the politician.  Unfortunately, it is for their personal gain, and not responsible government.  Researchers out there, help me out, find me one politician who was elected without a potential special interest group.

Islander read some of the names some of them supported more than one candidate that way no matter who won they hoped they were already in the pocket.

You can't stop them from supporting candidates. What we need is candidates that have integrity and will stand their ground after being elected. No sitting on the board doing the up and down head movements like those dogs use to do in the back of cars.

Angela: 

Yes, I see that no matter who won, developers won, always hedge your bets.   The only answer to this is a single term limit.  That way an elected official could do what they know is right, without having to think about re-election.  I wonder how many commercial entities would support a campaign based on a single term.  The elected official could do what their conscience dictates, with re-election a non-issue.  Most politicians will not turn their back on those who helped them get elected.

I think that single term limits would be great. Individuals should do their public service for the community and then leave. Some of these past Commissioners have made careers out of their public service. That has been a major problem in our county and other levels of govenment but that's another blog too.

The voters have decided that two terms are the limits now unless someone is willing to change those provisions.

Key2life makes a statement that I feel sharing public records requests is an education.

The Florida Constitution – the document that sets forth our rights as citizens of this great state – provides that the public has the right to know how government officials at all levels spend taxpayer dollars and make the decisions affecting our lives. It is how you are able to hold government accountable. As such, the principle of open government is one that must guide everything that the government does for us.

What an awesome education that we as citizens can learn about our government officials based off those records.

You know the informal dinner meeting with our County Manager and Commissioner along with the county staff speaks volumes of the integrity of that meeting and the integrity of these individuals. What also speaks volumes as well is the list of people that email was cc'd to and those who decide our future. So much for the ethics policy for the staff and the ethics policy decided by the voters. I am certain that a closed door meeting by individuals at that meeting would render a honest explaination of what was talked about in that meeting. If that was the case the meeting would have been opened to the public for all of us to make our own assessment of people who are deciding our future. After all it is our future and these developers need to understand the dire road problems we have in Clay County because it is a quality of life issue. It effects our lives on a daily basis.

You bloggers have been busy today.

I will be voting "NO" on both CTLAC initiates on the 2008 ballot. And the reason I'm voting "NO" is because they are overkill. The voters have already addressed commissioner salaries and in my opinion, these initiatives are regressive and have been offered to promote a PAC that's wants a great deal of publicity. I can't support such shameless self-promotion (my perception). And for what? Making it harder to pass a citizen's initiative or constitutional amendment (a 60-percent threshold) when it'll only take 50 percent plus one vote to pass it? That's just wrong. And it's exploiting the current constitution for personal gain.

Based on comments on this blog, many of you can and will support these initiatives. That's fine. We just have a difference of opinion. But IF they pass and IF in four to eight years we still don't have the county government we (CTLAC) desire(s), where will each of you be in this conversation?

Better still, will CTLAC take responsibility of a failed initiative that didn't achieve it's desired results? Or will they blame it on the people elected to office? Because the way I see it, if the intiatives succeed and they consider the voters "intelligent" in that decision, then they have to concede voters were intelligent in making the 2006 constitutional decisions as well as the district and at-large races in 2008. The Voters can't be smart on the one hand (their constitutional amendments) and dumb when it comes to electing commissioners and constitutional officers. It doesn't wash.

If we look historically, voters passed two other amendments offered by this group so they have to like Clay County voters. They know the odds are they'll say "yes" to anything they put out there.

I guess we'd need to hear from a member of CTLAC. I wonder if one of them will resond? Maybe THEY'RE hiding behind pseudo-names on this blog.

BUT people need to watch for the integrity (or lack of) in members of the CTLAC going forward. It'll be easy to spot. They have and will flip-flop on voter decisions.

It's going to be interesting. I for one have bougjht front-row seats for the 2008 show. I hope you'll get yours, too. Pop some popcorn, settle into your easy chair and don't turn that dial...

You know key2life if we don't have the government we want in Clay County in a couple of years it will not be because of the amendments of the CRC or the CTLAC or the voters. It will be because of people behind the scenes who continue the "culture of corruption" that puts the county in this position, and harms the citizens and the county.

I am certain the developers in Clay County know about the new ethics policies and the new non-inteference clause which gives the County Manager all the power and the money. Would that be why the County Manager is on the email? If they were concerned about the good of the county, and the hardworking citizens who try to be honest, law abiding residents that want the best for the county, they would have honored the rules.

Well, you know what they say about rules and laws those are only for the honest people. The rest will not observe or abide by them anyway. 

The citizens all over the State of Florida passed the Statewide 60% majority. If the majority of people in the State of Florida determined is was a good amendment for the entire State. Then why would it be bad for Clay County? Are the citizens all over the State of Florida part of the CTLAC. If so, that must be a pretty big group.

As far as the lower salaries and the requirement for voter to agree on increases to their salaries gives the citizen the most control over their money. After all the money that pays for those salaries is the taxpayers money.

With the County Manager running the County single term limits may not be a bad idea for the voters. Regardless if the Commissioners (policy makers) change every 4 years the county is now run by the County Manager and it would continue to run without interruption regardless of who sits in those chairs. The non-inteference clause gave him all the money and the power. Commissioners wouldn't need salaries increases they would just be in office for 4 years and then move on. Since we will have 7 of these people it makes good fiscal responsiblity to limit their salaries and increases.

I still think exposure and eradication of the people who thrive off the "culture of corrption" is the best course of action for the county.