Those Demon Developers

If it isn’t the fault of the developers then maybe the planning and zoning committee and commissioners can share the blame.  I will only speak to that which I have experienced.  The developer in our community changed our documents to suit his project, to that avail our governing document gave him that right but, in his greed he left behind a new community with homes built so close together that most of the homeowner complaints come from this new section of the neighborhood.  One corner of the area has homes situated so that the rear of one home faces the side of another.  The developer approved items that should have gone before the architectural review board.  That made it very difficult to enforce restrictions later because new homeowners will duplicate what they see.  The developer left the community without completing his permit obligations and gave homeowners their promised water view with a pond surrounded by black plastic liners several feet deep.  I do believe I have read that developers regularly keep association fees low during the selling process but must later raise them before they depart because they will no longer be there to share in the expenses of maintaining the common areas and amenities.  They frequently sell golf course and preserve lots knowing full well that there is no guarantee given that there will always be a golf course or perserve view from the homeowner's lot, yet they require and receive a higher selling price for such lots.

Homes are built too close together now and developers/builders can’t even finish a home; they continue to build a home with a front facade made of a different material than the other three sides of the home.  I am not impressed nor do I feel sorry for the developers.  They come in and then leave the aftermath for the residents as they move on to another project. 

OneMann,  You have written a very cogent and important piece. I have to agree with almost all of your assertions.  The bottom line is, to quote Pogo, "We have met the enemy and they are us." Developers are demonized because they do cause so much heartache for those who have been here a very long time.  But those of us complaining bear an equal amount of the blame by not being involved and standing up to these humanoids that would rape our environment for a few more dollars. We should light a torch and storm today's Castle Frankenstein and burn these greedy demons out.

When I first moved to Clay, it was solely because property was so much more affordable than what was available in Duval where I worked. But once those people chosen by the developers to sit on all the planning and zoning boards along with e Clay County Commission avidly lapped up the money they were paid to sell out not only their beautiful county but each and everyone of their neighbors, they earned the scorn they now receive. These miserable Quislings should be shunned right out of the county. (We can start with John Thrasher quickly followed by Harold Rutledge.)

How many brain cells are actually needed to see that the orts tossed the county's way for school land is nowhere near the need to build an infrastructure? I would be far more impressed by their alleged largesse should the premium paid actually result in covering the cost these hideous new developments will need in school, road, police, fire and other necessities. What the developers offer is a very sick joke. And the Judas crowd that paves the way for them should be looking anxiously over their shoulders for a cross bearing down on them.

Lily's Lore

Ms. Lily "U da Woman" we may have been remise in letting the developers take advantage of us when we were busy working and takiing care of our families while they decided our future and put the people in place to sell out our county, but the time has come.

"We should light a torch and storm today's Castle Frankenstein and burn these greedy demons out".

The school deal comes with many  caveats and one being the land surrounding the school will be turned into housing and commercial development and the school district agrees to not oppose that development. I am suppose to be impressed with a deal to continue to line the pockets of the developer. We need the school for the current mess they have made. They give the land for the future mess they want to make.

The money given to worthy causes is translated "I made so much money off you "sap suckers" I am taking a nice taxbreak by giving back so I don't have to give it to the IRS". So they can get more deals because of their misguided generosity. Maybe it helps them sleep better at night.

It sure don't help my commute to work in Jax each day.

Ladies, I'm interested in hearing if one or either of you might be considering running for a commission seat?

You are correct, ladies.  Developers aren't blameless when it comes to the myriad of problems associated with Clay County's virtually unchecked growth.  But my point was that these guys are playing by the rules.

And as long as the growth industry continues to control local politics by dominating the one local political party fielding electable candidates, they will continue to have rules they are comfortable playing by.  The individual names and faces of candidates won't matter because the successful, money-raising candidate will all be handpicked, vetted, groomed, approved and financially backed by the same old developers, builders and others whose wallets grow when Clay County does.

Local voters are usually left with two options on Election Day: Vote for the candidate trained by developers; or vote for an independent thinker labeled a crackpot through typically-misleading campaign advertising secured through developer donations.  Candidates with views like you ladies, Lily and Angela, are dismissed as inexperienced or unable to comprehend the incredibly complex world of politics, or worse.

Kinda makes that whole election and voting thing seem less important, doesn't it?  Reminds me of the bumper sticker: If voting really accomplished anything, it would be illegal.

OneMann- you are a man after my own heart. Why would we want to play in the field of the candidates and politics? The developers don't. They play the behind the scene games and run the show from there. They have informal dinners where they decide our future, then send their cronies out there to implement their plans. However, their plans for my future in Clay County has been a failure, a failure on the roads, a failure in the schools, and a failure with the infrastructure. The "DEVELOPER IS A FAILURE".

My best answer to that little bump in the roads is play the game the same way they do. Investigate, then report and let the people decide. It has made Rupert Murdoch very wealthy.

OneMann- "There aren't many citizens outside the growth industry who make any attempt to effect change in local government Growth Management policies, so why is everyone surprised that Clay County is unbalanced? 

I believe the citizens when given the correct information will make the best decisions that effect them and their daily lives. I think Clay County has suffered from a lack of the "fair and balanced" information about our county. Of course you cannot show up at the Rotary Club after you just exposed some behind the scenes land deals. Regardless of how you feel about it. You just play the game and smile.

I think the next elections when it comes around we will all know if it is boxers or briefs. The level playing field that is offered on the blogs. This gives the voter the ultimate power to make the choice that best fits the quality of life they want in the county.

Key2life- I am not a very good lapdog. I cannot speak for Ms. Lily but I do read her post, and I don't get that impression of her. If you want to be a politician in this county you have to be a puppet of the "good ol boys kind". If not you are then turned into the Fitzgerald trophy of Shorstein and company with their lack of evidence ploy.

I know that lots of people read the blogs and in my errands in the county has heard comments concerning some of the information that has been posted. So I do know they are effective. I hope that everytime a citizens sees one of these individuals they remember the information provided and act accordingly. I hope the citizens see these individuals as they truly are and not some feel good story that makes them larger than life with halos.

MyClaySun you are awesome.

It's exceedingly complimentary to be considered by some for a run for office. Unfortunately that would mean giving up my secret identity and then what do I do with this giant Bat Signal?  Just kidding. (I would never surrender my Bat Signal.) No, to be a viable candidate one needs to bring more to the table than my oft stated desire to end all construction in the county for ten years. Frankly, a Raggedy Ann doll could do just that in my place and with far more aplomb than I. Although I do see a certain charm in placing a doll into a county commisioner's seat such as the delightful Miss Raggedy with the added incentive of no strings attached unlike the puppets we now have.

Given my choices of the motley and admirable assortment of writers on these virtual pages, I would be hard pressed to choose between RichK and Baxley. Of course, Marsha and Angela would be sorely needed as referees. If nothing else, county commission meetings would no longer require massive doses of Red Bull.

Lily's Lore "

Say a prayer for those alone
Say a prayer for those apart
All the golden boys and girls
The crusaders of the heart..." Jim Steinman

Lily's Lore,

You just knew I had to pipe in when I saw my name mentioned.  For the record, I feel that I am emminently qualified to be described in the "Motley,"  category.  Scruffy, rough around the edges might also apply.  After all my dear, I do have a reputation to maintain.  But I do try to shoot straight.  Do with Baxley as you will, but be advised, I would nominate him for the "admirable," position.  Let him take the heat & the preasure of the job.

As far as the "Good ole Boy," Syndrome goes....I might be wrong and you may correct me if I am, but I get the impression that people around here think that this syndrome is particular to this area.  It is not.  You'll find this kind of thing in citieas great & small.  In my home town of Chicago, we invented the term, "Clout," and "The Machine,"  New York had Tammany hall & Boss Tweed.  So it's not a local phenomena.  But you keep on blogging.  Not coming from the area, I've been getting a wealth of information from all of you.  Just another tip from uncle Rich.

RichK 

Being a Tennessean by birth, you got the good ole boy syndrome down pat.  Al Gore's dad was my senator back in the old days, and he was a good old boy, nobody particularly liked him, but he did bring home the pork to Tennessee.  Hence he was re-elected forever.   I wasn't a bit surprised that Jr. Gore didn't carry Tennessee. I left the state years ago, because I was not one of the ole boys and couldn't get a job anywhere.  It was a real awakening when you are "born and raised" in an area but can't get a job because you don't know the right people, or attend the "right" church or forbid, have an original idea!   

I do love a good Chicago style hotdog, and a good piece of Chicago or New York style pizza!  We serve up great Jack Daniels in Tennessee!   Good ole boys rule!  I'm sad to say!

I cannot understand how developers get away with what they do. They put in a "neighborhood" with beautiful houses and yards and big houses, with big price tags mind you, and sidewalks on one side of the road and then halfway around the street, they stop the sidewalk and put it on the other side. Does this make sense? It must for the people who live on Dartmouth Drive off College. I have family there and I never noticed it before, until this past Saturday. It was shocking to say the least.

I also noticed that I could barely get my car through the street as there was a car facing the wrong way on one side and a truck with a trailer on the other. It's a good thing there was no emergency and a fire truck was needed in the area. They would never have made it through there as this was around a curved part of the road.

Another brilliant idea is the new thoroughfare called Branan Field. Maybe it's me, but don't you find it rather odd, that a "planned subdivision" that is supposed to have about 40,000 people when it is completed is only a TWO LANE ROAD!!! Why didn't the County Commissioner's and the Planning Department allow construction with a four lane road and turning lanes and/or islands be built immediately? Was there no money to build it with the potential savings NOW to the taxpayers instead of the "we'll build it when we need it mode"!

How incredibly stupid. The county should have done what they had to at "Fair Market Prices" and acquire the land from 220 (where it connects to Baxley) go through Blanding, Old Jennings and all the way up to at least Argyle Forest or connect at the Duval County line. It would save money now, prevent backups at rush hour (yes it does back up during this time) allow traffic to move better when cars can get into a turning lane and not impede traffic.

Oh well, it's like I always say and it is proven right all the time, "If it makes sense, it won't work or happen anyway"!

OneMann - a kindred spirit.  Where do I start? First, a little background.  The first job I had after high school was as a laborer on an apartment complex being built in Jacksonville.  In the ensuing 30 years I have worked virtually every job on a construction site and now work as a Project Mananger for a local construction company, and have a Real Estate license. The few years I served in the Navy is the only time I have earned money other than by building or selling things.  Mainly homes.  Construction is in my blood, or as one of my old bosses used to say, "I've got sawdust in my blood."

Definition of residential developer: a person, or a group of people, who have the resources to buy property, invest more money in horizontal infrastructure (engineering, permitting, site clearing/grading, sewer, water, electric, paving, etc.), and then sell those buildable lots to builders.

Builder: a company that buys lots on speculation that they will in turn be able to sell the lots, with a new home, to a Buyer.

Very seldom are the developer and the builder the same company.  Sometimes it does happen, but it is definitely the exception to the rule, especially with larger developments.

Both builders and developers are business people.  You know, like the guy you work for now (or used to if you are retired).  Businesses are in the business of . . . making money.  A business that does not make money is called a charity, or bankrupt.  The place where you buy your food and toilet paper is a . . . business.  They make you pay more for your food and toilet paper than they paid for it. (I know, sounds like a crime to me too - someone should notify the State Attorney's office.  The county commission must be behind it somehow.)  ALL business people survive on a simple concept - supply and demand.  Developers, builders, and grocery stores.

If there were no people to buy these horrible little ugly homes in these environmental catastrophes called developments, then guess what - the demon developer would not put their money at risk by making more developments.

This issue - a total misunderstanding (or at least misstatement of) how residential development occurs - drives me batty.  Thank you OneMann for wading into the retention pond and getting us all fired up about a major problem in Clay & Florida.

I am begging one of you, any one, to speak to the REAL issue - population growth.  This is at least the third time I have asked for someone to talk about the demand side of the equation, but so far, not much has been said.  It is much more fun to bash a developer/builder over the head and accuse them of all sorts of shennanigans.

Another assertion I have made:  there are the same percentage of immoral developers & builders as there are Sunday school teachers, lawyers, retail clerks, etc.  Residential development is one of the most regulated processes in the country - as it should be.  These developments do create a tremendous impact - sometimes good, sometimes bad.  But believe me, open heart surgery is less regulated than putting in a subdivision.  The people who work in this industry are typically a hard working, tough minded, determined lot.  Many, like me, started digging ditches, and work their way up the ladder.  Sure, some are scoundrels, but they usually don't last long.  And for wahtever reason, those are the ones that everyone uses as examples of the industry.  As OneMann said, seldom do you hear about the great companies that have worked in the area for many years, employing thousands of people in the area, and all of the great community work they do.  But you will definitely hear about the one guy who buried trash on a lot, then built a house on it.  And we should hear about him.  He should go to jail.  But he is not the whole industry.  Far from it.

The issue of density - how close together homes are - is a factor of how much are you willing to pay for a house.  No one forces anyone to buy these homes.  Families mortage the next couple of decades to own a home.  Choices are virtually unlimited in this area for where to buy a house.  A home with one facade on the front, and something different (and cheaper) on the sides is a common way to bring the price down.  If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I could go on and on, but won't bother.  I've probably lost most of you back in my sarcastic rant anyway - sorry.  Yes, I'm a little defensive - but after 3 decades of providing for my family in what is, or at least used to be, an honorable profession, I've had it with unfair criticism and false accusations.  I know those that are critical of the developers and builders are not speaking to me personally, but the brush you use is way too broad, and your "paint" is filled with inaccuracies and emotional hyperbole.

You want to debate growth in Florida (the country, the planet), start with a much tougher problem - how to stop people from reproducing (thus creating the demand for more of everything).  Good luck.

I don't understand what part of managed growth that Baxley does not get. That is the problem we have with growth in Clay County it has been unmanaged.

I guess that should not come as a surprise to all of us because the BCC has been unmanaged for many years too. Why should we think they could manage growth?

I think we should worry more about all these people coming into our county that are here illegally, which it seems most of those are working in the construction industry. This would be called unmanaged population growth. However, we seem to be unable to managed the borders as well. 

I think the recent sharp decline in new building permits in Clay County is an excellent form of growth birth control for these developers.  

Baxley:

I agree with you again.  It isn't the fault of the developers that they are allowed to build.  The fault lies within those whose job is growth management.  Florida has many statues on the books that regulate growth.  Each and every county in Florida has a Comprehensive Plan that should regulate growth.  The problem has been oversight by the governmental officials who should have been regulating by the plan.  The LOS (level of service) for infrastructure is spelled out.  Our plan in Clay simply wasn't grand enough to handle all the building that has occurred.  There is no way that another development should be able to dump additional traffic on US 17.  That road does not meet the level of service needed.  The problem, additional developments are already in the works that are going to do just that.  Clay needs to take a breather, and look closely at any new developments in the pre-planning stages.

When has Clay county built a new road?  DUH!  That is where a good plan would have limited growth in an area that does not have a highway that can handle the traffic load.

Our planners, our plans, and our governmental people goofed up on this one.  The only other explanation is one where promises were made and currency exchanged.

Rich, I don't know that the residents here, native and transplant, see the problems we have as solely a Clay County phenomenon. I think when we get caught up in problems that vex us, we slap on the blinders and only see what we are obsessed with. But you are right, it isn't a localized problem.  I have no soft spot for Tammany Hall politics any more than I would for the Richard Daley dogma of his time. I certainly understand the adgitah it causes. As an example of lunatic politics, where I came from in New York (Rockland County) we had a mayor named Vines back in the seventies who was out to obliterate pornography from the town. It may have been a noble effort but he lost all credibility when he appointed one of his cronies to this special board to determine what was and was not pornographic in movies. Prepare yourself, this is where it gets all H.P. Lovecraft. The buddy was blind. As in sightless. As in couldn't see any better than George Bush can speak.  You can imagine what happened to that campaign. Just imagine the women on the panel giving a play by play ala Pat Hughes to the lone blind man of the action on the screen. Politicos, despise them or loathe them, they still can bring a chuckle to any debate.

So what was my original point? I forget. Hmmm. Oh, yeah, motley or admirable you would be terriific on the board. Along with Marsha, Angela, Baxley and Raggedy Ann, I propose a coup. Why not? We have nothing to lose but our loons.

Lily's Lore

"It's like a storm that's never ending

It's like a shadow on the land and the sea

There's nothing so sad as

A tomorrow gone bad

The future ain't what it used to be..." Jim Steinman

Ms. Angela,

I should apologize for killing the fly with a sledgehammer.  The whole "greedy builder/developer" thing sends me over the edge.  My tirade was misdirected in the growth management conversation.

Mr. Islander hit the nail on the head - no one planned for the enormous growth we have experienced here over the last 20 years or so.  But, I don't think anyone would have guessed sleepy little Clay County would have gone from 14,323 in 1950 to 140,814 in 2000.  I'm not quite sure how you "manage" that kind of growth.  I guess the idea is that you do it through quotas on building permits, or something like that.

Funding the government via impact fees or other developmental fees makes the government addicted to growth.  Ask the school board, where they are suffering from a major loss of funding due to the 70-80% drop in building permits.  It is truly a problem for them, a real Catch 22.  Overcrowded if you do, underfunded if you don't.

To me, simple minded me, the free market is correcting the problem itself.  The builders and developers over produced during a record housing boom, and now the market is over-supplied for the decreased demand.  Thus, prices are going down - fast.  And they will continue to fall until supply-demand equilibrium is reached.  When the demand catches up with, and then surpasses supply . . . well, you know the rest.  Round and round we go.

Citizens have had it up to here with irresponsible development practices and are demanding changes.  Politicians, and developers, are responding.  It's a cycle that takes years to see these changes come to fruition.  But, I can assure you, current developments are many times superior to those of yesteryear.  And county commissions are learning that being propped up by developers big bank accounts does not automatically mean re-election.  The St. Johns county commission lost its pro-development majority when grass roots candidates who were anti-growth soundly defeated the candidates supported by developers.  But, you're talking about a county where 9 DRI's have been approved in last few years and will bring nearly 50,000 lots to the market in the future.  Talk about "unmanaged" growth.  In Clay I think there is 1 DRI approved (Saratoga Springs) and 1 in the works (Highlands).

Great conversation/debate.  Thanks for letting me get a little steam off.  Nothing beats public participation for influencing how our government works.  Ask Durwood Smith and the CTLA.  If you are really concerned about how the county develops, do something about it.  Running off at the keyboard will only go so far.

Baxley,

Ok, I will admit that there are some very good neighborhood developments with character and diversity in design.  It is you, Baxley, who shared such a nice memory of your grandmother’s home.  I might bet that every forth home didn’t look just alike on her street.  I remember playing underneath my grandmother’s house as well; doodle bug, doodle bug...

Most people do not know the process involved in building a custom home so they buy the best of what is offered and what they can afford.  Most of us don’t even understand the mortgage process much less handling a builder and all of his contractors. We have to buy what is there, just like in the grocery store; if it isn’t on the shelf and I can’t go out and butcher the cow or harvest the garden then I must choose from what is offered by others. I can’t go out and create my own neighborhood, so I must choose from what is for sale.  How much more could it cost to finish all four sides of a home in the same construction material?  Sometimes the direction of the siding is even different.  The front facade may have a horizontal siding while the other three sides are in a vertical direction. If I were a developer or builder, I would want to leave behind something of quality, since my work should stand for years to come, rather than build something that will deteriorate or go down in value at the moment I walk away.  Quality versus quantity.

Supply and demand, you say.  I read a little bit and I have never seen headlines like these:

Americans Demand More Cookie Cutter Homes

Florida Consumers Want Less Privacy.

Homebuyers Demand Less Greenspace

The supply or suppliers is the problem.

Read44 - boy, have you come to the right place.  You are singing my song now for real.

Unfortunately, the realities of business are such that there is a range of products that are seperated by price - and quality.  If there was ever a "true" cliche, it is: "You get what you pay for."  It is amazing to me that any entry level new home starts in the mid-to-high $100's and most are really in the $200's.  I think the median price is about $240-ish.  A high quality home can be built for that price, but not with production construction standards.  There is a big difference between passing a county building inspection and a quality inspection.  What is structural and safe does not necessarily mean it looks good.

Thankfully, the company I work for is all about quality - seriously.  That is the single most overused claim in this business.  Our average price home is over $650K, and over 3500 sf (see - you're all reaching for your calculators).  Unfortunately, most people fall into certain traps that lead them into a poorly built home.  The people we build for tend to be folks who have been burned before and understand you have to look beyond the price.  The "dollars per square foot" ($/SF) analysis most buyers use to shop for a home leads them down the wrong path.  But, that subject would take a whole blog, or even a series of blogs (I'm getting an idea about writing an article(s) and trying to sell it.)

One quick analogy and a couple of quick facts.  Think of shopping for a car by $/tire.  A $20,000 Kia, at $5,000 per tire, is transportation, an AC, a radio, etc. - a car.  An $80,000 Jaguar, at $20,000 per tire, is the same thing - transportation, an AC, a radio, an so on.  But the 2 cars have many differences.  So can a 2600 sq. ft. house.  One house can have vinyl flooring/linoleum and cheap carpet, and the other house can have nothing but high dollar ceramic tile and $30/yd. carpet;  one will have laminate countertops, the other will have granite;  one will have a $1,000 or so lighting package, while the other may have a $1,000 fixture in the foyer alone.  I'm sure you get the idea.  Well, like it or not, that goes for quality finish work also.  A production home uses the lowest price labor so they can sell the house for the lowest price, while quality contractors, and there are plenty in Clay County, have to pay more to trim carpenters and painters to achieve a higher quality finish.  That extra cost MUST be added to the price of the home. Therefore, the house costs more $/SF than the poorly built home.  As long as buyers insist on having the lowest $/SF house, they will "get what they pay for."

You must look beyond that number, but it should be a factor for comparison, and see what kind of company you are buying from.  Even in 2007, when building companies' stock is traded at the NYSE, a good reputation is what you should be buying.  And it is easy to find out about builders, if you try.

Lily's Lore,

Thanks for the kind words, but I doubt I would be qualified for any board.  Two reasons, basically.

One is the fact that many people in this country have chimed in loudly & clearly that would not, under any circumstances vote for an agnostic or atheist.  Since I am the former, that would leave me out.  Not a problem.  I have a very difficult time voting for Christians, more so after seeing what Bush hath wrought upon the citizens of our country.

Second, my views on this agree with Marx.  I wouldn't  join any organisation that would have me as a member.  Just another tip from uncle Rich.

RichK

Rich,

 I've noticed you seem to steer clear of local issues preferring instead to weigh in on national and global issues.  Just curious?

I'd vote for an agnostic or an atheist, as long as I agreed with their position on issues.  I'd like to hear their view on spiritual matters out of personal curiosity, but would love to hear a candidate say - "My views on spirituality are personal and private, and none of your business," but that will never happen in my lifetime.  Religious pandering is nauseating.  And even if a candidate is a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., I lose respect for them the moment they start using their religous affiliation to gain votes.  Selling out their god for a few pieces of silver.  Where have I heard that before?

Did Marx really say that?  Haven't read a lot of Marx, probably should, but that means I'd have to spend less time here. Ha ha.  I'm enjoying RichK, Lily, Angela, winn1955, and the many other contributors too much.  Whatever happened to ClayCountyCurmudgeon?  You guy's going at it was like watching a written boxing match.

Baxley, I certainly hope you are kidding. Either that or you had a very disturbing and solitary upbringing. Not that I wish to bring that up. ;>)
 The Marx Uncle Rich is referring to is the greatest Marx of them all, Groucho. And I fully subscribe to the statement Rich quoted. I, too, would never join a group that would have me as a member. People have often said I should open my own business, to which I always reply "I could never work for someone like me".

Lily's Lore "I don't ever want to be rescued And I don't ever want to be saved I got a feelin' that I'm gonna be alive forever Dancin' on the edge of a grave..." Jim Steinman

Baxley & Lily's Lore,

Ring one up for Lily's Lore, she nailed it the first time out.  I have read Karl Marx but find Groucho much more interesting.  And a hell of a lot funnier.  Karl was such a stick in the mud.  Kvetch, Kvetch, kvetch all the time. Who needs it.  Besides, look what he brought us.  Compare that to "A Night at the Opera."  Which would you prefer?

Baxley, I agree with your position 100%.  If I were in the same position, & somone asked for my religious views, I would add a question or two of my own. "What possible business is it of yours or any other person's?"  "What possible difference could it make as far as me serving the public, introducing, passing or rejecting possible laws?"

I have been challenged on that point before.  People have said that it does, indeed matter. After persuing the subject to the conclusion I knew would happen, I asked them one final question.  In the past 200 plus years of law making in cities, states & country, in all the various types of laws concerned, if you can give me factual evidence of cause & effect relationship that prayer, divine interdession or the influence of a particular kind of religion helped to produce a law occured, I will concede to your point of view.  I ask for only one.  Can you show me?  The answer was  obviously no.  The excuses continued, of course, but at least I went out of character & didn't go, "Neener, neener neener."

I don't know @ that 30 pieces of silver bit.  the stakes have gone much higher.

I do indeed tend to have a reduced view in regards to local politics for a few good reasons.  One is personal, so I won't go into that.  One reason is that I wasn't born here, grew up here & don't have kids in the school system.  Combine that with the fact that many of you out there have, & that makes some of you much more qualified to add intelligent comments than I.  Another is that I tend not to spread whatever intellect I have to thin.  I concentrate on one or two points of interest & then try my best doing the homework.  Just like Harry Callahan once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."  Smart man, that Harry.  Just another tip from uncle Rich.

RichK

(Face blood red from blushing - I mean BLOOD red).  How embarrassing.  Can I have a do over?  That's why I asked the question - it seemed so silly.  But I guess I got suckered in by Uncle Rich's high-brow intellect and never imagined a Groucho reference.  I'll slink away now and hide under the bed until my face returns to its normal color.