Disney bans teens for life, front page Fl. Time Union

Winn1955,

I was going to respond to your blog yesterday but didn't get a chance.  I'm glad I didn't.  One of the reasons I didn't reply was because there was a lack of information in the article plus I had some questions.

I haven't been to a Disney Park since the mid 80's.  Truth be told, I avoid the Orlando area as much as possible & you couldn't pay me to go into one of their parks.  Because of that, I have little information.

I am not familiar with this "Disney Downtown." Do you have to pay admission to get in?  If you do, how does one loiter in a place where one must pay admission?  What constitutes, "Loitering?"  How is it quantified?  If they were being followed by officials for an hour or two, as the parent of on of the young man  claims, how does that make them any different from the thousands of other people who were walking around for hours? 

Once again, on the subject of loitering, I don't know the legal definition of loitering.  Maybe they missed the show they were planning to see & were just killing a little time til the next one.  Maybe they were tired & just stopped to rest in the shade.  Maybe they had just met some friends & were just shooting the breeze.  Does that constitute illegal loitering?  As far as I can tell, they were doing what thousands of other people in the same situation do.

I've done it as many others have, especially when shopping at a mall with my wife.  While she's in store, I'll wait outside just standing or sitting, sometimes for 30 or 45 minutes.  Is that loitering?  I've never been stopped, followed or questioned by the authorities.  I am white.  Should it matter?

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm not taking sides, just asking questions.  I noticed that in today's TU, page A-7, "Disney reduces sanctions against banned teenagers."  Obviously, conditions changed in 24 hours.  For now, we don't know what the conditions were.  Yes, racial profiling was mentioned, but we still lack detailed information.

I recognise the concern any single person, or property owner, especially where public safety is concerned, has when gang violence might possible.  But from I read, the only information I have, these kids were doing nothing that thousands of other people have done.  So I, for one, will refrain from making any accusations until all the facts are in.  I'm fairly sure that we haven't heard the last of this.

RichK

Hey! R. K. Long time no dialog, I understand no taking sides. You have raised some very good questions. The legal definition of loiter is as follows, to linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. Below I have included Excerpts from the Chicago Times.

To the best of my knowledge Disney Down town is free to get in, but you pay for your entertainment.  From what I have found out Disney has had some resent problems with gang activity. If you are having a problem with gang activity in your establishment, you the proprietor must get it under control for the safety of patrons that visit your establishment. If you don’t you leave your self wide open for a law suit when someone gets hurt.           

So! If you are having a problem with gang activity, you take an offensive stance. You send out your guards to look for suspicious behavior. It doesn’t matter what color there skin is. You look for the type of person that has been causing you problems. RK lets say you have a garden and it is being striped of its fruit by birds, Ya don’t go out looking for squirrels to save your garden!

 Maybe, just maybe; it is just a fact that the problems that are occurring from gang activity are from persons with black skin. As I said I don’t know this to be true, I’m just saying maybe. It could be any type of ethnic group, or race. The point, you don’t look for squirrels!            

 It really doesn’t matter if Disney was right or wrong in there decision, the ball belongs to them. Who ever owns the ball makes the rules. It appears one of the first things that happened was the kids pulled the race card. Why? Because that is what there parents taught them to do. All the kids had to do was follow securities suggestions and everything would have worked out for them. But they choose to be wise guy’s and challenge authorities in the park. Remember there was a smart one in the bunch, and he choose to leave before they issued a trespass warrant against him, and as I said he served no banishment from the park.

The race card should never have been pulled. If the kids felt they were being treated unfairly the matter could have been brought to Disney’s attention at a later date. Disney, the parents, and the kids could have sat down and each of them could have explained there point view to reach an amicable solution to the situation. Life lessons could have been learned here. Disney would have heard the kid’s point of view and with that information could have adjusted there gang prevention program accordingly.And the kids would have learned when there is a problem in life the best course of action is to try and open a civil dialog to find a solution to the problem, and that there will always be rules in life that you must follow.

What did they learn? They learned that when you think whitey is watching you, or hassling you the first thing you do is cry racism and you will get whitey to back down. Unfortunately that is the lesson that there parents reinforced by their actions in this matter. And with that, my case in point is that racism will never end in this country when the parents teach it.   

 Sure wish I had more time to write, I really miss bantering back and forth with you guy’s. I have just been so busy lately.  Uncle Rich, and you guy’s I do read the blog’s it just might take me a few day’s to respond.                      

 Excerpts from the Chicago times   Henry Pierson Curtis and Scott Powers
Sentinel Staff Writers
Published June 27, 2007  According to sheriff's Cmdr. Larry Krantz, who supervised the off-duty deputies working at Downtown Disney last weekend, Disney security officers said they spoke to the football players several times during the evening.

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

From his own observations, he said, the athletes were not aggressive or rude, but he understood that at least one made "kind of smart remarks" to Disney security.

At one point, they asked why no Puerto Rican or white teens were being asked to leave, Krantz said. Then, a white teen and a Hispanic teen were brought in, and all the teens started slapping "high-fives" and joking, he said.

McCray, a 6-foot-2-inch, 268-pound defensive tackle, said the group had been sitting on a bench after leaving Pleasure Island when a number of security guards and deputies approached them. That's when he left, he said.

Friends were 'just chilling,' teen says

Commack said he and his friends were "just chilling together" at Downtown Disney and that they thought they were followed "because we were a group of black kids they assumed were out to make trouble."

Sheriff's spokesman Capt. Mark Strobridge said Tuesday evening that the agency works closely with Walt Disney security to identify and remove anyone causing problems at the theme parks and Downtown Disney.

"The feedback we have received is that many of the guests have been happy with our presence," Strobridge said.

Nugent, Vincent Williams' stepfather, defended the players by saying they are all good kids as well as hardworking, outstanding athletes.

"Is it because they're all over 6 feet tall and black?" asked Nugent, who is white. "I want the trespass warnings dropped so the kids can visit Disney if they want. And an ology would be nice."   Psychiatric